Debates of Feb. 14th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of International Trade was Minister of Human Resources Development at the time of the Corbeil affair.

Obviously it is his administration that is referred to when the current Minister of Human Resources Development describes the administration she has inherited as right out of the dark ages.

My question is for the Minister of International Trade. Since there is a precedent for former ministers testifying, is the Minister of International Trade at last going to agree voluntarily to come before the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, according to the rules of this House, the government speaks through the minister responsible for a department.

Ministers defend the files of their predecessors. That is how it is done and how it has always been done. That is the custom. The Minister of Human Resources Development is completely capable of answering all questions on the programs concerned.

There have been four ministers of that department since we became the government. The present minister is responsible for answering for the other three.

Merchant Navy Veterans

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Some merchant navy vets in Peterborough have told me that their compensation payments are disappointingly low and others are concerned that their compensation will be clawed back through taxation.

Could the minister tell us the current status of the merchant navy veterans compensation program?

[George Baker, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for the sensible question of the day.

It is exempt from taxation and it is a non-reportable item on income tax. I think the credit here belongs to two groups: first, the veterans themselves who came up with this plan and, second, our House of Commons Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs that unanimously came up with the solution. To both these groups I say congratulations on a job well done.

Human Resources Development

[Roy H. Bailey, Reform, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, you do not need to win at Lotto 649 if you live in a minister's riding. If you own a business, even if it is from another country and is worth billions of dollars, you will qualify for grants.

It does not matter if the money is needed. The human resources minister will find a way to cut a cheque. It is not about jobs. It is about pure slush. There is no other explanation. Why should Canadian taxpayers tolerate this flagrant abuse of their hard earned money?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I say again that the grants and contributions from my Department of Human Resources Development are used in ridings right across the country.

Let me tell the House what Dr. Allan Mandel of Calgary says about a project in the riding of Calgary—Nose Hill. He says “I have never donated to the Liberal Party. To me this is a program to stimulate getting young workers into the workforce. I think that is great. They are”, meaning the Reform Party, “painting everything with the same brush and they don't even know what it is being used for”.

[Roy H. Bailey, Reform, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. member that my huge riding, which does not happen to be a Liberal riding, received the staggering sum of $720.

The Minister of Human Resources Development has invented a new kind of extreme sport. She can blow a billion bucks, get caught and slip another one out of her chequebook.

I ask the Prime Minister, why will he not take away the chequebook from the Minister of Human Resources Development and give it to the agriculture minister? We really need some money.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago we announced a program of $500 million every year for the next two years because we are very concerned about the situation.

I would like to point out to the hon. member that in the program of his party, the program it used to get elected, there was a clause which said that we should cut the subsidies to farmers.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the riding of Brant received $1.7 million of transitional jobs fund money because of what the minister called a pocket of high unemployment. Brant's unemployment rate is 7.6%. Inner city ridings such as Winnipeg Centre and Vancouver East that also have pockets of high unemployment were not able to qualify for transitional jobs fund money. Why did unemployed workers in these ridings not qualify for the transitional jobs fund? Was it because the minister is not in those ridings?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to clarify the record. I would like to tell the House what the unemployment levels were in the riding of Brant during the year of 1995 when the transitional jobs fund statistics were collected. In the month January, it was 10.3%; in the month of February, 11.8%; in the month of March, 14.4%; in the month of April, 14.5%; and in the month of May, 14.2%. Brant was a pocket of high unemployment.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development is not the only Liberal minister who has received funding from the transitional jobs fund even though her riding is not eligible.

The Minister of Justice and the Indian affairs minister, the President of Treasury Board, the former solicitor general, and the Liberal Party whip have also circumvented the rules.

How can the minister justify that the poorest ridings—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The word circumvented is a bit strong. I would like the hon. member to withdraw that word.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

How can the minister justify—

[The Speaker]

Does the hon. member withdraw the word.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

How can the minister justify that the poorest ridings in Canada, like Winnipeg Centre and Vancouver East received no money from the transitional jobs fund, while ministers' ridings did?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, these accusations are absolutely unbelievable.

In the case of Stormont—Dundas—Charlottenburgh this was a riding with 18% unemployment, but unemployment is dropping, and we can list lots of ridings for you.

When we started out, unemployment was at 11.5%. It has now dropped to 6.8%. When we started out, the deficit was $42 billion. Now we have a surplus. When we started out, the interest rate was 11%. Now it is 6%.

That is what good administration is all about, and throughout all this we have not forgotten the poor and the ridings where there was unemployment, such as the riding of the hon. member.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development acknowledges having been aware in August 1999 of serious administrative problems in the management of programs.

In view of the scope of the situation, why did she not order a stop to payments immediately and not six months later, that is, on January 29, 2000?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again I point to the record. We have implemented a six point plan. We will deal with the challenges before us. Canadians want this problem fixed and we are going to do that.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I had another question, but I am going to go back to this one.

The minister was advised that there were problems with the TJF in August 1999. Why did she not put a stop payment then and not six months later on January 29, 2000?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again, let me remind the hon. member that we have implemented a six point plan that has got the endorsement of the auditor general. I remind the House that the auditor general did not say these programs should be completely stopped. He understands the value of them. He agreed that the strategy we are putting in place is the right one and that it will work.

Trade

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

On Friday the World Trade Organization released its decision regarding Canada's auto pact claiming that it gives favourable treatment to U.S. manufacturers while discriminating against other manufacturers.

Can the minister tell the House on what basis does he plan to appeal the decision?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday my colleague the Minister of Industry and I announced that Canada will appeal the panel's decision. We believe there are compelling legal grounds to certain elements of the panel's ruling. We essentially want to seek clarification on the reasoning and the scope of the panel's decision and report.

The government will continue to consult closely with the provinces and key industry stakeholders throughout the appeal process.

Human Resources Development

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote Michael Scharff, executive vice-president of RMH Teleservices in response to questions about why his company got $1.6 million in grants. Listen to this: “I am sure we would be in Brantford one way or another. That was kind of the icing on the cake”.

Why do profitable companies get the icing while the taxpayers pay the bill?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to remind the hon. member of the circumstances facing the riding of Brant, a community that had to diversify its economy having lost the major employers that closed and were all gone.

The transitional jobs fund and the Canada jobs fund were identified precisely for communities like the riding of Brant. The investments that we have made as a result of these programs have been well received by the community members there because they have provided opportunities that were not going to otherwise exist.