Debates of Feb. 23rd, 2000

Acoa

[Michelle Dockrill, NDP, Bras D'Or, NS]

Mr. Speaker, last week I questioned the HRDC minister about Scotia Rainbow and the secretary of state for ACOA answered and made allegations that I was not in tune with my constituents.

CBC reports today indicate that Scotia Rainbow has received over $20 million from various government agencies. Further information indicates that the government is considering further funding to Scotia Rainbow.

Why would the secretary of state for ACOA consider further funding to Scotia Rainbow when judgment after judgment is being filed? Does the minister think this is in tune with Canadians and Cape Bretoners?

[George Baker, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, according to the auditor general and according to public accounts there were two years in which the Government of Canada made a lot of bad loans under ACOA. I admit that. Those were the years 1991 and 1992 when the Tories were in power.

Cida

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

I suppose next, Mr. Speaker, he is going to tell us it was John A. Macdonald's fault. It is nice now that everyone is here.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it has recently come to our attention that two days before Christmas the government tried to slip by Canadians another internal audit, another damning report that chronicles poor management of millions of dollars, this time by CIDA. Among other things the report revealed little tracking, validation or monitoring of up to $850 million.

Would the Minister for International Cooperation tell Canadians, is this another classic example of flagrant mismanagement of taxpayer money?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, there was no such thing as sneaking it in. The audit was done in September, I reviewed it in December and it was released in December on time. If I had released it after December they would have said I was late with the report. I did it exactly when it was finished.

In addition to that, 80% of the recommendations which the audit made have already been implemented or are in the process of being implemented for developing countries in education and health programs and to sustain growth for investment in these countries.

This is a good program and it works very well. The recommendations are being implemented and I have a management plan in place.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is not what we have been told.

When the audit was released, not only was it done while the House was not in session, but the minister conveniently was out of the country. Her spokesperson insisted that she had not read the audit before she left.

How could the minister have ignored this most important audit in her department since 1992? Let us try again with this minister. When did you first read the report?

[The Speaker]

I would ask members to address all of their questions through me.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

First, Mr. Speaker, what the member opposite said is totally false. We received the report. I read it in December. I was briefed in December and that is when I released it.

The hon. member is talking about other audits which I reviewed in January and which were released in January. They were 1999 audits.

He is mixing two articles and pretending that it is one and that is totally false.

Human Resources Development

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would guess that falsify would mean the same thing whatever side of the House it is coming from.

In 1994, and every year since then, spending on boondoggle grants and contributions has increased every single year. Over that same time period the finance minister slashed funding for health care and every single year he raised taxes.

Why did the Prime Minister allow the finance minister to get away with this?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I said in the House yesterday, and last week also, transfers to the provinces in 1999-2000 were higher than they were when we formed the government in 1993-94.

Yes, we have policies to create jobs in Canada. That is how we created 1.9 million new jobs since the government was formed. The Canadian economy has created these jobs and that is why we have the lowest unemployment level in 25 years of 6.8%.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us get this straight. Taxes go up every year, health care goes down every year and yet the Prime Minister brags about it and says “I have nothing to be ashamed of”.

It seems pretty clear to me that every single year the finance minister has shovelled more and more money into the HRDC minister's pocket so that she can do with it whatever she chooses.

Why was the finance minister allowed to be the accomplice for the member for “Grantford”?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, over the course of the last three budgets we have cut taxes by over $16 billion.

More to the point, who, on this side, sat through the first mandate when we took government and Reformers were in opposition, when year after year they told us that we were not slashing health care and education enough? The Reformers wanted to gut the social fabric of the country. It was part of their policy in the first mandate and it is still part of the Reform Party's policy.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development does not want to be accountable for the funding to her riding. She tells us it is her deputy minister who makes the decisions.

Now, rather than answer questions, she tells us to phone in to her department. That is some minister. I think the farce has gone on long enough.

I have one specific question: Why were the lists she released modified, with important information deliberately deleted?

[The Speaker]

“Deliberately deleted” is not acceptable language.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask the hon. member to please withdraw the word “deliberately”.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I withdraw the word “deliberately”, Mr. Speaker—

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have presented an unprecedented volume of information. For anyone who takes the time to read the notes, it has been made clear that because of technical challenges the lists may not be identical to the same lists that have been presented through access to information or others.

It is also clear that if the hon. member has any specific questions that he would like answered on any specific project we are prepared to provide him the information.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the matter was raised that the funding was paid out before the subsidies were approved, sometimes two years before the approval date, we were told this was a computer problem.

In response to that computer problem, the dates of payments were taken out, again a computer problem.

[An hon. member]

Enough is enough.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Could the minister tell us why the dates have disappeared, or can she tell whether her department's computer programs are as poor as its minister?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that any information the hon. member would like he can ask for. But he is not interested in the facts and I think that is because he now knows, because the lists are public, that $52 million from the Government of Canada is to be found right in his riding.