Debates of March 20th, 2000

Export Development Corporation

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the EDC always loans money to foreign clients who want to purchase goods from Canadian companies. That is the nature of the corporation. It actually makes money for the Canadian people. It made $118 million just last year. That corporation does very good work. Ninety per cent of its clients are small and medium sized Canadian enterprises that are trying to export more. Canadians are very pleased with all the jobs that have been created that way.

Council For Canadian Unity

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Council for Canadian Unity was commissioned to organize 1,500 internships at a cost of $5,500 each.

According to the figures from Human Resources Development Canada, the internships each cost $18,500, or three times the original projection.

I would ask the Minister of Finance, who looks after Canada's financial situation, among other things, to explain this discrepancy.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the Council for Canadian Unity runs a very good program called “Experience Canada”. Between 1996 and 1999 it helped almost 500 young people gain valuable career related experience. It has an 83% success rate. We all know why the Bloc Quebecois is not particularly happy with this program.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for young Quebecers to meet young Canadians or young people from other countries, we think this is a very good thing.

However, the shameful part is that some use the young people to put money in their pockets, among others, the friends of the regime.

I would ask the government: how did this end up costing three times the amount originally projected, with 60% of the money going to administration costs, $11,100 for each internship? Could they explain that to us rationally instead of going on and on?

[George Baker, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, each of the applications is approved by the Government of Quebec. What is the problem with the Government of Quebec? Is the hon. member saying today that the Government of Quebec is bad, yes or no?

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the secretary of state obviously got the wrong program. He should let competent people reply to the questions.

In addition to the $18,500 paid by Human Resources Development Canada for each training period organized by the Council for Canadian Unity, participating companies must also pay $8,500 per trainee.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. How can this government justify the fact that the Council for Canadian Unity bills a total of $27,000 for every six month training period?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in the first contract we had with this group it was true that it was beginning a program. When one is beginning a program one has to reach out to find people to help and to find participants.

During the first term, the cost per participant was high and that is why, in signing a second contract to keep this good work going, we decided to pay this particular group on a per participant basis. Therefore the cost will come down to be more in line with the more usual payment.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a cost of $27,000 for each of the 453 six month training periods that have been set up. This amounts to $12.3 million. This is a shame. And it is unprecedented.

How can the government congratulate the Council for Canadian Unity for its performance and renew its grant, when no one can explain what happened to the $12.3 million?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member ought to ask this question to three of his own colleagues.

I was told that three Bloc Quebecois ridings are taking part in this good program of Experience Canada. Therefore, the hon. member should consult his colleagues to find out how great this program is for their constituents.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Alberta has declared war on public health services.

The federal government provided the ammunition in 1996. It negotiated a secret agreement on the privatization of health services with Ralph Klein.

Clearly and simply, yes or no, does the Minister of Health agree with the 12 principles of this agreement?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as we have said repeatedly, there is nothing in Alberta's so-called 12 principles that will ever stand in the way of the Government of Canada enforcing the provisions of the Canada Health Act. It will never stand in the way of our protecting Canadian medicare. That is true in the case of Alberta and it is true across the country.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are still waiting to hear whether the government will act to protect the principles of the Canada Health Act.

Last week in Alberta I met with Friends of Medicare. One of their members, Desmond Achilles, asked me to ask the Prime Minister about these 12 principles for privatization, the principles that the government negotiated with Ralph Klein.

Friends of Medicare want to know if the government is ready to take the first step to stop Klein's privatization. Will the Prime Minister and the health minister today repudiate Alberta's 12 principles for privatization?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have already made it clear that we oppose the policy of bill 11. We have also told the Alberta government that we want to see the bill in its final form and that we want to see the regulations.

Let me remind the hon. member that on two previous occasions Premier Klein and his government have tried and failed to introduce similar legislation. Twice before he has withdrawn the bill.

Let us see whether once again Premier Klein will listen to the people of Alberta and withdraw this legislation.

Export Development Corporation

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for several weeks now the waltz of the billions at Human Resources Development Canada has taken up Oral Question Period in the House.

My question is for the minister truly responsible—not the Minister of Human Resources Development—the Minister for International Trade. Could he tell us about the $1 billion in the Amtrak-Bombardier affair?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, allow me to be very clear.

The Export Development Corporation does not give grants. It is a corporation that makes loans to businesses at commercial rates of interest. So $1 billion is not missing. Loans are made at commercial rates to international businesses and clients wishing to buy goods here in Canada.

That is the specific mandate of the Export Development Corporation, which generated profits of $118 million last year and helped 5,000 companies export goods abroad.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister really thought I was putting my question to the Minister of Human Resources Development. Perhaps he did not understand what I was asking.

On average, 15% of the Export Development Corporation's budget, or more than $100 million annually, is earmarked for bad loans. There are two separate accounts: the EDC account, for all sorts of uses, and the Canada account, which comes directly from the government, directly out of taxpayers' pockets, for more problematic situations.

My question is this: did the money for the loan to Amtrak in the Bombardier project come from the Canada account or the EDC account?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to go into specifics of a particular transaction.

The Export Development Corporation is a corporation independent of the government, which is perfectly able to answer this question.

However, I find it interesting that the Progressive Conservative Party seems to want to come down on the right and prevent the government and Canadian government institutions from taking action to help exports, to help our companies on international markets, which create thousands, in fact millions of jobs in Canada. Those are the facts and Canada can be proud of its Export Development Corporation.

Human Resources Development

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the human resources development department admitted in writing to a fourth investigation in the Prime Minister's riding. Then the minister denied the truth of that document. By the end of the day the department reversed its earlier statement.

Is the human resources development department's information unreliable, or was the investigation abandoned purely for political reasons?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as the minister stated in the House on Friday, there was no investigation of the particular file that was being asked about.

There was a mistake made by a rather lowly official who sent a fax to the Bloc Quebecois. It was explained later by the deputy minister that a mistake had been made. She apologized for it and she has since sent the answer to the question today to the member of the Bloc who asked the question in the first place.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, after the bungling in that department it is amazing that the parliamentary secretary would have the fortitude to get up and call officials in that department lowly. It is those people across the way who are screwing up royally with taxpayer money.

The minister's little six point plan was supposed to clean up all these problems. There was not going to be problems like this any more. The minister has acknowledged her department gave false information to a member of parliament regarding Placeteco. Why does she not just admit her six point plan is nothing but a PR exercise and that the incompetence and mismanagement—

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member ought to be ashamed of himself for attacking the auditor general, an officer of this House. The auditor general reviewed the six point program. He approves of it. He wants to see it carried out.

When the hon. member gets to his feet again his first words should be an apology to the auditor general and an apology to this House.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as everyone in this House is aware, the Minister of Human Resources Development has repeated on numerous occasions that the $1.2 million paid to Placeteco had made it possible to preserve—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Roberval.