Debates of March 20th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will start again.

As everyone in this House is aware, the Minister of Human Resources Development has said that the $1.2 million paid to Placeteco by her department had made it possible to create and maintain jobs at Placeteco. We have just had the figures from her department. In 1998, Placeteco had 81 employees. In March 2000, after wasting the $1.2 million, it had 78 employees, or 3 fewer employees.

How can the minister tell us here in this House that the $1.2 million created jobs at Placeteco, when there are fewer jobs after the $1.2 million has been squandered?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, at various times there have been as many as 135 people working at Placeteco.

The company did run into trouble in 1998 and the department had two choices: do nothing and let the jobs disappear or work to maintain the jobs and help create new jobs. We decided to continue the project and work with the company.

The original firm now exists as two companies, Technipaint and Placeteco that together employ 170 people with good prospects for future growth.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, really, there are limits. Despite what the minister has said on several occasions, as everyone knows, about this money creating jobs, it did not create a single one. Jobs at Placeteco have even been lost, after the money was squandered. This money was diverted to pay a bank loan.

How can the Minister of Human Resources Development expect us to swallow her story about the money creating and maintaining jobs, when there are fewer jobs and the money was used in loan payments?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, these two companies which emerged from the one company that applied for TJF funding have gone through ups and downs as do many firms in the private sector.

We can decide to abandon them or work with them, but I am happy to report that Technipaint has signed a contract with Bombardier for the painting of 82 regional jets and currently has 92 people working. Placeteco has a three year agreement with its employees and a five year contract worth $8 million with Bell Helicopter.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the human resources department could not tell how many jobs were created by the $1.2 million grant to Placeteco. This was because the project was under investigation, but the minister obviously did not know that. She denied any investigation.

The department promptly changed its story to back up the minister. Even more helpfully, the department between Friday and Monday morning magically produced healthy job creation numbers for the project. Is that not all just a little too convenient?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have just taken the House through the numbers. The numbers are on papers that have been sent to the Bloc, the original questioners; but I do not even want to answer this question because the member—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I have felt for a long time that this particular questioner does not want to know the facts.

My opinion has been reiterated by a mayor of a small municipality who travelled to Ottawa to defend himself and his city against her attacks. He says in the paper that the MP does not want to listen, that she does not want to hear facts, that she does not want to know them, and that there is no point. He is fearful that his town will be treated unfairly because she is only out to make a name for herself. That is what a mayor says.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would hope there is no member of the House who could be browbeaten into abandoning doing their job on behalf of Canadians.

The facts of the matter are that on Friday, the last day the House sat, the Department of Human Resources Development had a document in the hands of members of the House saying that a grant in the Prime Minister's riding, a fourth grant, was under investigation.

The fact is that today, all of a sudden, there is no investigation and the numbers that could not be provided on the last sitting day are now available with no back-up documentation. I think the government owes Canadians an explanation, and I would like to hear it.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have already given the information and I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for my misuse of the word lowly. I meant a junior official and I feel very badly about that mistake.

I do not need any lectures from that member about doing my job. If she was painting the full picture of HRDC, she would have mentioned some time in the last seven weeks about the 3.7 million people who regularly receive old age security payments, the 1.3 million people who get GIS, and the 1.2 million people who regularly receive their EI cheques.

Federal Bridge Corporation

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we learned that the Federal Bridge Corporation signed a contract with Mediacom to allow that company to put up 60 billboards on federal land in the Montreal region, thus contravening municipal bylaws and the Quebec moratorium on such billboards that has been in effect for five years.

Will the minister confirm that the Federal Bridge Corporation is about to disregard Quebec and Montreal laws and regulations by authorizing Mediacom to put up 60 billboards in the Montreal region, in exchange for an amount of $40 million to be paid over a 15 year period?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, the Federal Bridge Corporation consulted all the authorities—and the Sûreté du Québec in particular—in the area of bridge safety.

The corporation did the right thing for all those who use bridges every day in Montreal. There is no problem on our side.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not get my question at all. I am looking for a commitment on his part.

Can the minister guarantee that he will not disregard the opinions of the Quebec government, the City of Montreal and transport experts who deem this initiative dangerous in terms of road safety?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the Federal Bridge Corporation complies with all provincial and municipal regulations and bylaws. There is no problem.

Tags

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last year an internal audit by HRDC revealed that the majority of projects contained no evidence of supervision or monitoring. There was no review of applications, and in some cases the payments did not comply with the terms of agreement.

No, I am not talking about the transitional jobs fund, but rather a special audit of TAGS signed off on April 18, 1999. When did the Minister of Human Resources Development learn about this audit and what did she do to correct the problem?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know the answer to that. I cannot speak for the minister about when she learned about any particular facts.

On the question of the other audit that has been the subject, I have been the parliamentary secretary for almost two years and I do know that the dates she has given in the House are the ones that I recall as being at meetings too.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the jobs fund was not an isolated instance. The government claims to be a sound manager of the taxpayers' money, but the truth is starting to leak out.

Will the minister tell Canadians just how many programs in her ministry are not following the rules and regulations?

[George Baker, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, for the hon. member's information, TAGS was actually created under the Tory government, prior to the Liberal's coming to power. We signed a memorandum of understanding with the Department of National Revenue to protect our taxpayers to make sure that any moneys owed would be collected. This is good Liberal common sense to protect the taxpayers' dollars.

Gasoline Prices

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in an effort to cover up his lack of action on the increase in the price of gasoline, the Minister of Industry has just announced that he has ordered a study of Canadian gasoline markets by the Conference Board of Canada.

The press release states “The Conference Board is the most appropriate body to undertake this study as it is independent of government and interest groups”.

How can the minister say such a thing when the member organizations include Petro-Canada, Shell Canada and Suncor Energy? How can he make such a statement?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the members of the Conference Board have the right to receive information from the studies.

I think that even the Bloc Quebecois member would agree, however, that the reputation of the Conference Board in terms of its independence and the quality of its research is beyond reproach.

I do not think that it will prepare a report that would raise questions about its reputation.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is nice to be questioned by members opposite, who of course had very little interest in the issue of gasoline pricing for such a long period of time. Obviously it took a lot of members on this side to discover the issue long before it was an issue at the gas pumps.

Could the Minister of Industry tell the House the details about the Conference Board and its ability to review this industry from an independent point of view and give Canadian consumers who are constantly being fleeced at the pumps some decent answers which they certainly are not getting from the opposition?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the commitment to undertake a study was one which we made in response to the task force that was led by the hon. member and 46 other members of this caucus whose concerns about the price of gasoline led them to do an in-depth study and to request that a further study be done by people who have real expertise.

The Conference Board of Canada brings the economic expertise and the independence necessary to give us a thorough understanding of how this market works, what the cause and effect relationship is between prices at the crude level and prices at the retail level, and some assistance in determining what policy—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

The Atlantic Groundfish Strategy

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Veterans Affairs, who just told us that it is good Liberal common sense to waste tax dollars as has happened in the TAGS program.

We have an audit report from April of 1999, five years after the program began and five years after Liberal administration. It states that most files showed no evidence that project applicants were checked for eligibility, one-third of the files had no rationale for selecting the projects and one-third of the projects did not even meet the criteria for the program.

How can the minister stand in his place and say this is a common sense program when in fact the audit shows that it was another boondoggle by the government?