Debates of March 29th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, they did not do anything until after they had been caught. The employees at HRDC were even intimidated from reporting breaches of ethics. Listen to this quote on ethics from the same audit:

Only three in ten employees agree that people...can voice concerns about ethical breaches without repercussion.

The government was warned about this in 1998. If the minister were concerned about these problems, why did she do nothing about them until after the $1 billion boondoggle was exposed?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have to remind the hon. member that it was our own audit, an internal audit, to which we were responding. We were not caught by anybody.

It is part of our process of continuous improvement. We do look at ourselves. We do identify where we can make improvements, and we take action.

They should look at the six point plan, look at the work of the department and look at the commitment of the men and women who are ensuring that we build a system of modern comptrollership that will be second to none.

The Environment

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the conference of ministers of the environment, which ended yesterday, did not reach its objectives. Once again, the federal government is merely putting off any real action off until some other time.

As well, its strategy for greenhouse gas reduction ignores the realities of the provinces, where sustained efforts are already under way.

My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Why is the government refusing to recognize the efforts of the provinces so that those that have already taken certain steps are not eventually penalized?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, we regret Quebec's departure from the meeting a couple of days ago. We appreciate its desire to be proactive, but we all really need to work hard together as a team on this issue.

I might caution the Quebec government against embracing the European model as it did at the meeting. That model would mean, for example, a massive increase in costs in Quebec for truckers, farmers and consumers, directly contrary to the representations made two minutes ago by the member for Témiscamingue.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after his decision to postpone the province by province breakdown of objectives, does the minister not realize the federal government is plunging companies that are prepared to take positive steps for reduction into uncertainty, which cannot do otherwise than to cast doubt on Canada's commitments at Kyoto?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, we are already in the process of implementing a system of baseline protection to give companies confidence about the future in terms of taking early action.

I might also say that with the European model the Quebec government is embracing it would find, based upon that model, a much higher target for Quebec than the national average. I am sure that is not its intention, but it should be careful about embracing models that do not apply in Canada.

Human Resources Development

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, another new day and another new audit at HRDC that shows the extent of the problems in that department.

The minister says that she wants the best system possible. I would like to ask her how that is possible when the 1998 audit shows that only 30% of the employees in that department believe they can raise concerns about ethical breaches without repercussion.

Could the minister explain to the House and to Canadians why 70% of the employees in HRDC are afraid to bring up ethical breaches in her department?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, members of that party opposite continue to show that they are stuck in the past. Here they are focusing on something in 1998.

I would ask them to please take the time to look at the year 2000 to see what we are doing in the department to engage the employees and to ensure that they can participate in improving their system so that they can serve Canadians better.

I have been to operations in Calgary, Toronto and Quebec City. The men and women of my department are standing tall, alongside me, as we implement changes that will improve the system. Canadians expect us to do that, and they will watch and judge us by our actions.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe that the minister would actually make those statements in the House.

It is very interesting that the minister refuses to release the more recent audit through access to information. Eighteen months ago the minister knew, from the audit in human resources, that it warned of a loss of ethics and control which would lead to serious problems.

How can Canadians believe that the minister will make any changes when she did not make the changes that were recommended 18 months ago?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that this is the most bizarre line of questioning I have ever been privy to.

For heaven's sake, let us just go through what has happened. We did our own audit. We saw that there were places where we could make significant improvements. We have said to the Canadian public that we have identified where we can improve our business and we will make those changes.

We are doing exactly what the public expects us to do to continuously improve and to keep them informed about how we are performing and how we are improving. I am not going to change that approach.

Genetically Modified Organisms

[Hélène Alarie, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Health did not deign to reply to my question.

Millions of dollars are being spent by his department to promote genetically modified organisms, while no study has been carried out to date on their long term consequences.

Will the minister admit that, as Minister of Health, when there is a general concern about this issue, it is his duty to undertake, as soon as possible, a study on the long term effects of GMOs on people's health?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the Standing Committee on Health and the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food are now putting together a committee which will study the long term impacts of the GM labelling.

Air Transportation

[Claude Drouin, Liberal, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, recently, we were stunned to hear that Air France will impose English as the language of communication between its pilots and the control towers in France.

Could the Minister of Transport tell us if French is going to remain in use in Canada's air space?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is simple: no. Canada's air navigation system allows bilingual services in Quebec—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. Minister of Transport has the floor.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

No, nothing is changed, because Canada's air navigation system allows bilingual services in Quebec, in the Ottawa region and in northern New Brunswick, and the results are positive.

There are no problems with bilingual communications in Canada's air space.

Human Resources Development

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think statements by ministers are at 3 o'clock. Let us get back to the news.

What is actually bizarre is that this minister did nothing about this audit since 1998, until an access to information request was filed by the official opposition. The minister says that she knew nothing about this problem until November but the audit clearly indicates that there were problems as far back as 1998. It is a disaster for her anytime one of these internal audits happens to slip out of her fingers because Canadians get to look at the rot that is going on in her department.

Here is a quote from this report “Employees were not convinced that they could report suspected contraventions of ethics without fear of reprisal”. What kinds of reprisals did employees in her department fear?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talks about a report from 18 months ago. That is two names ago for that party. Not much has changed there as a result of that, but a lot has happened in my department.

The employees of the department, along with the senior executive management and myself, are implementing real change. It is a change that Canadians expect. As I said, the Canadian people will judge us by our results.

[Grant McNally, Reform, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what is unbelievable is that this minister tries to downplay the kind of scandal that is going on in her own department with these kinds of comments. It is unbelievable.

Let us go back to this report and look at another quote. In this report it says that the communication on the importance of ethics has not taken place at the operational level. Why not?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is talking about ethics. If members of that party had any ethics they would stand and apologize to the Canadian people for creating the myth that $3 billion has gone missing as a result of work in my department. They would stand and say that it was not $1 billion. They would stand and say to those communities, which they have cast aspersions on, and to those individuals in my riding who have received benefits from the grants and contributions, that they were wrong.

Health

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Tomorrow the minister will be meeting with his counterparts to discuss the crisis of health care in this country. Everyone knows we need more federal cash in the system. The Canadian Medical Association said that it wants full restoration of federal funding, plus an escalator mechanism to address future needs.

In light of this, will the Minister of Health show some leadership tomorrow and guarantee us that there will be an offer of cash on the table with a plan to save medicare in this country. Will he show that leadership tomorrow?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I believe Canadians know that if we are going to solve the problems in medicare it will take more than just more money.

The NDP may believe that the answer is simply to pour billions more into a system that is not serving Canadians well. I can tell the member and the House that we believe, and I think Canadians agree, that we need a plan, a long term solution to make the system sustainable, as well as long term financing.

Tomorrow we will begin a process, which may last several months, of working on that common plan toward common financing with all governments in the country.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Well, Mr. Speaker, the minister talks about a plan.

This government is now in its seventh year in office. Where is the plan? The government has a plan for tax cuts but no plan for health care. I want to know why there is not a plan for health care.

Will he go to Toronto tomorrow with a plan and an offer of cash on the table to save health care? Where is the leadership from this minister? Does he not know what leadership is?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, members of the NDP had a plan in their 1997 platform. They said that we should have a floor of at least $15 billion for the Canada health and social transfer. We have made it $15.5 billion.

They had a plan to put in $7 billion more to restore health cuts. We have now doubled that and put in $14 billion more.

In November 1998 the leader of that party stood in the House and said that what we really needed was $2.5 billion more in health care. Since then we have put $14 billion more into health care.