Debates of March 29th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, indeed, let us talk about yesterday and the information commissioner and what he said. He said: “HRDC's report will be a significantly positive one with regard to its adherence to the statutory time limits for responding to access requests”. He went on to say: “No other department which we have reviewed in the time that I have been information commissioner can boast of a record as good as HRDC”.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the information commissioner also said that those quotes were from a report that was done before the minister started to screw-up the information flow from her department.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask members to please be a little more judicious in their choice of words.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is a quote from the 1998 audit of the HRDC department, which we did not know about before: “There is a need to improve the perception of management's commitment to ethical behaviour”.

Is the absence of leadership committed to integrity not the real cause of the billion dollar boondoggle?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again the hon. member gives me the opportunity to say that as Minister of Human Resources Development Canada I have taken this seriously and we are making effective change in my department.

She talks about a screw-up and the sharing of information—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

All right, that is one on each side, and we will stay away from that word for today.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask her if she thinks it is wrong that on February 21 we tabled with the standing committee over 10,000 pages of information. I would ask her if she thinks that it is wrong that since February 21 we have provided the standing committee over 3,000 additional pages of information and will provide more. I would ask her—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development signed contracts that she did not respect. She appointed a trustee, Mr. Champagne, who is the lawyer for one of the parties involved and also a creditor in the Placeteco affair.

Two creditors in the bankruptcy, Messrs. Gauthier and Giguère, both friends of the Prime Minister, signed a secret agreement with the National Bank, in which mention was made of the upcoming grant to pay back a $1 million loan. And the minister says there is nothing to justify ordering a police investigation.

What does the minister need to decide it is time the police looked into the matter?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what I need to know is that we have reviewed this file completely, at the highest level of our officials, and that the administrative review has indicated that we have not breached any of the terms and conditions of the transitional jobs fund program. Most importantly, what I need to know is that there are still 170 people working there.

While they would have had us pull our money and close these accounts, we stuck with these companies, and men and women are working as a result.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at the beginning there were 81 jobs at Placeteco, compared to 78 now, which means three jobs were lost. Let us not get things mixed up.

It is surprising to hear the minister say it is not important that established rules are not followed; it is not important that jobs are not being created; it is not important that her department's rules or those of the Treasury Board are not followed; it is not important that her signature is not honoured, and there is nothing wrong with the grant being used for purposes other than those for which it was intended.

Is the minister aware of the message that she is sending, of the example that she is setting? What are we to think of a minister who takes such improper measures?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is important is to make sure that all of the information is shared. Yesterday they talked about a contract and looked at section 10.1, which talks about bankruptcies. They forgot to look at section 10.2, which gives the government the option of continuing to work with the company.

On this side of the House we chose to continue to work with these companies. As a result, 170 people are still working.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the attitude and the responses of the minister are absolutely outrageous. This is scandalous.

The case we are discussing here is of such seriousness that even the minister is involved through failure to stand by her signature on the contract involving Placeteco.

Ten days ago, her department confirmed that there were 78 jobs at Placeteco. This is three jobs fewer than before the payment of the $1.2 million grant. Where is the proof the minister refers to?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have said time and again that there were difficulties with this project, that the numbers of employees went up and down, and fluctuated.

What is important is that today as we speak there are 170 people who are working on this original contract. From our point of view it was an investment worth sticking with.

I remind the hon. member that we are only but one partner. In fact the Government of Quebec supported us in this undertaking.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister understood the question very well, but is avoiding answering it. We are talking about Placeteco, a serious matter.

Where are the figures showing the jobs created and the invoices she says she has analyzed? What is she waiting for before making them public?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at them. When the project was first approved there were 64 people working at Placeteco and 49 at Techni-Paint. At various times there were as many as 135 working at Placeteco. Both companies are now doing well and have the potential for more in the future.

Placeteco signed a five year contract for $8 million and there are 78 people working there today, which is more than when the project was approved.

Health

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government has taken out full page ads on health care so that it can carry on a spitting match with provincial governments.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Shame on this government for applauding expenditures on advertisements when it will not put money into the health care system.

The government tried to justify these advertisements by saying that the other guy started it. These ads may be good for PR, but they are not good for ER.

Canadians are not interested in this kind of—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We will hear the member's question, so I ask members to listen.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are not interested in this kind of fight. They want solutions and they know the first place for that kind of solution is money on the table to save health care and to move forward.

Tomorrow there is a critical meeting of health ministers. Will the federal government bring cash to the table?