Debates of March 29th, 2000

Health

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, to have good public policy the people are entitled to know the truth. As we said in the ads and as I said in my reply to Premier Harris, and I am happy to see the NDP and Harris together, we have restored funding to the provincial governments in the transfers and they are receiving today 12% more money than they were receiving in transfers in 1993-94.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We like to hear the questions and the responses.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, is the Prime Minister really saying there is no new money for health care? Is that his answer today at this critical juncture?

Does the Prime Minister not realize we are at a defining moment in the history of the country? We are talking about the future of medicare, something that ties the country together.

Will the Prime Minister do what is absolutely necessary for the future of our universal public health care system and give the health minister a mandate to go to the table tomorrow with money and ensure that medicare is here to stay?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a year ago we transferred $11.5 billion more to them. I remember, as all members of the House should remember, that we were congratulated by all the premiers.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We will hear the response. I ask members to listen.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this year in our budget we transferred another $2.5 billion for health care to the provinces.

The Government of Ontario and other provincial governments still have money in the bank that they are not using. It is in interest accounts rather than being used to improve the fate of people who work in hospitals or are in hospitals in Ontario and the rest of Canada.

Human Resources Development

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Telile Isle Madam Community Television Association has been receiving HRDC funding for a number of years. Telile negotiated a long term lease with a commercial property owner. After the lease was signed HRDC funds were then used to make improvements to the property.

We have been informed that the owner of the property and the chairman of Telile are one and the same person. He negotiated the deal with himself.

Considering the involvement of HRDC money and the apparent conflict of interest, will the minister tell us if she considers this to be a judicious use of taxpayer money?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to review a number of grants and contributions in my department, but not all. I am not familiar with this case. If the hon. member would like to give me the details I will look into it for him.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would be glad to do that because once again we are talking about a long term lease, in this instance involving 10 years of inappropriate use of taxpayer money.

Would the minister undertake in her department to look into whether the approval of this funding for the organization was in fact a conflict or whether it was appropriate? Was there any semblance of inquiry both before and after cheques were sent?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I would be glad to do that.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us take a look at what the 1998 audit of Human Resources Development had to say. It said “In many interactions with HRDC managers we found that control appears to be a four letter word”.

Why did the government allow billions of dollars to be handed out without financial controls for at least 18 months between the time of the audit and today?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the department has done an extraordinary job at improving its service delivery methods. The department and Canadians appreciate and understand the value of grants and contributions to them. We have taken extraordinary measures to improve our relationship at the community level, in Liberal communities as well as in those represented by that party.

As a result of the work of the internal audit we are undertaking also to improve our modern methods of comptrollership, modern strategies that will allow the department to deliver better service and be accountable to the taxpayer. That cannot be wrong.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the truth is that this government and this minister did nothing for almost two years until they were busted by an access to information request put forward by the official opposition. They knew for well in excess of 18 months that there were huge problems: no financial control and ethical concerns. They did nothing.

Why did the minister and her predecessor do nothing while billions of dollars in tax money was being handed out without financial controls and while there were ethical concerns?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talks about perception. What I want to talk about is the reality. The reality today is that my department is working extraordinarily hard to make improvements, to continuously improve our operations.

Canadians do not expect everything to be perfect all the time, but by golly they expect us to make improvements when we get the information, and we are doing just that.

Gasoline Pricing

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the present hike in gas prices, we see that, oil producers aside, there are two big winners, the Government of Alberta and the federal government, which are pocketing additional tax revenue thanks to the profits of oil companies.

Can the minister tell us whether this is not the real reason for the federal government's failure to take action in the present crisis?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member must know that the reason for the hike in gas prices is certainly the international cartel.

Yesterday, we heard that OPEC countries had reached an agreement. The expectation is that gas prices will go down in the weeks and months to come.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the effect of an increase in world oil production would not only be modest but might not be felt for a few months, maybe several.

Does the government not think it would be justified in giving consumers a break right now by lifting the excise tax of 10 cents a litre?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member must know that taxes are levied at the federal and provincial levels. I have always said that I was ready to sit down with my provincial counterparts to discuss this issue.

Human Resources Development

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, listen again to these quotes from the 1998 internal HRDC audit: “Greater emphasis should be placed—on ethics and integrity”. “Accountability mechanisms”—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Calgary Southwest can begin his question.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Move a little further to the right, Mr. Speaker, and that seems to bother some of them.

Listen to these quotes from the internal audit: “Greater emphasis should be placed—on ethics and integrity”; “accountability mechanisms not functioning”; “weaknesses in financial controls continue to surface”; “lack of monitoring of contribution projects”; and “weaknesses found in prudence, probity, economy, efficiency and effectiveness”.

Why did the minister fail to address any of these concerns until after the $1 billion boondoggle had been exposed?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us quote some other things from the same report:

The majority of HRDC employees agreed that management in their office consistently demonstrates a commitment to the importance of ethical behaviour. Similarly, well over one-half of HRDC employees surveyed agreed that employees in their office make sure that the taxpayers' money is spent wisely.

Let us get the whole story on the agenda.