Debates of April 14th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the human resources minister rejected the public's request for a public inquiry into the boondoggle at HRDC. The Oxford dictionary defines the words public inquiry as a search into a matter done by the people for the people.

I would simply ask the minister and the government why they do not want the Canadian public to get the information regarding the boondoggle at HRDC.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not reject the need for a public inquiry. We are having one. It will be done by the auditor general and it will be done during this calendar year.

The public has not asked for this. It is the only thing that the four opposition parties could agree on in trying to put forward a dissenting report to the committee's majority report.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development has again totally contradicted the owner of Placeteco, who received a grant of $1.2 million and who said on the CBC that he had 78 people in his firm and not the 170 the minister keeps reporting.

If the minister continues to totally contradict her department and its figures and the figures of the head of Placeteco on the number of jobs, is it not because she is incapable of justifying the use of $1.2 million by the creation of jobs at Placeteco as the grant went elsewhere?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have been clear that there were different numbers of people working at different times as the business cycle rose and fell. To the best of our knowledge the combined workforce at Techni-Paint and Placeteco is now 170.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister herself is confusing Placeteco and Techni-Paint and preventing the details of this matter from coming to light.

Why is she so afraid to table the invoices she must have in hand to justify the grant, unless no jobs were created?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, that party always wants to point out things that might be wrong with every project that we help to bring to the workers of Quebec.

I emphasize the good news about this company, which is that it just signed a five year contract worth $8 million with a major aeronautical company, Bell Helicopter, and there are 78 people working at that firm.

Foreign Affairs

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada could have played a dominant role in the peace process in the Middle East. Instead, the Prime Minister damaged it.

As a Syrian minister said, our Prime Minister comprised the neutrality of Canadian peacekeepers monitoring the ceasefire between Israel and Palestine. The Prime Minister's Gaza gaffes are putting the lives of Canadian peacekeepers in jeopardy and destroying our reputation and neutrality.

How could the Deputy Prime Minister continue to blindly defend the Prime Minister, even after he has put the lives of Canadian peacekeepers at risk?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if there is any blindness here, it is in the eyes and mind of the hon. member.

He does not recognize that Canada continues to be the chair of the multilateral group on refugees as part of the Oslo peace process. He does not recognize that Canada remains one of the members of the overall steering group of the peace process. He does not recognize how successful the talks have been that our Prime Minister has had with the leaders he has met so far. I am sure this will continue to be the case.

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Patrick Seale, a journalist and Middle East analyst with access to President Assad with regard to the Prime Minister's remarks said that they:

—suggest someone who has not fully grasped the subtleties of the different positions...In this crucial moment on the peace process, the Middle East needs someone that tries to contribute to the solution, rather than someone that makes the solution more difficult.

Why does the Prime Minister not quit while he is behind and come back home?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of behind, the hon. member and his party have been behind for a long time, and that will continue to be the case.

The Prime Minister's mission is going very well. He is having very successful talks with leaders of the Middle East. The hon. member has quoted one person. I quoted another, the well informed president of the Hebrew University, who has been praising the Prime Minister for his efforts. That also has weight.

Human Resources Development

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there are limits to the nonsense that can be passed off in the House. We have proof, and we even wanted to table it in the House, that the grant was used to pay back a National Bank loan, and the owner of Placeteco himself admitted it. The government cannot keep sticking its head in the sand on this one.

The Minister of Human Resources Development can no longer hide behind the pat answers prepared by her staff. What is she waiting for to table the invoices that would back up what she is saying?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable to me the opposition claims that grants and contributions are a serious subject. It has co-operated with us in investigating them in the committee for months now and those people across the way can only ask about one file out of tens of thousands.

I think it is time to grow up and to realize that when there are 10,000 projects there are probably 100,000 partners and among those 100,000 partners there will be a few people for whom—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Verchères—Les-Patriotes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, such arrogance. There is no word in the French language that would be acceptable in the House to describe the behaviour of the government in this affair. No jobs were created. Gauthier himself admitted it. The Groupe Vidéotron was forced to pay back its grant.

What is the minister waiting for to call back the $1.2 million grant that was used for purposes other than creating jobs?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it clear in the past and it continues to be true. If a review of a file indicates that there has been an overpayment, we will ask for the money back. We have done that in some cases and the money has come back.

If one cannot establish an overpayment, one cannot ask for the money to be returned, and that is the case with this particular file.

Foreign Affairs

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately there has been no conversion on the road to Damascus for the Prime Minister. He just keeps on doing what he always does when he puts his foot in his mouth; he keeps on stumbling. He has aggravated our allies and he has threatened a delicate diplomatic balance. If this mission is going well, I would hate to see bad.

Let us see if the Deputy Prime Minister could perhaps answer this question without saying “I reject the member's premise” or quoting some friendly academic. Why will the government not bring the Prime Minister home before he hurts us any more?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, now I know why the CCRAP is behind in public opinion. When we have questions like that I do not see why one should take them seriously.

The Prime Minister's talks are going well. The leaders of the countries he has met with have spoken well of his efforts. I am sure he deserves the support of all Canadians, even the CCRAP.

[John Duncan, Reform, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if it is going well, I would hate to see bad. Today is day five of the Prime Minister's Middle East travel. After four major gaffs in four days, saying what he is not supposed to say, now he says “listen, I do not have to discuss the situation between those two countries”.

We might ask what two countries. For the Prime Minister, it could be any two countries in the region. Why will not the Prime Minister just come home?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member did not say that, when the former leader of the opposition badmouthed Canada abroad. That is the guy who should have been brought home.

Speaking of the Prime Minister's four steps, yes, there have been four major successful accords signed involving Israel and Egypt. There will be other concrete, positive achievements for Canada and the cause of peace because of the Prime Minister's efforts.

Employment Insurance

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the employment insurance plan as we know it is disintegrating.

Self-employed workers, who account for 18% of the work force, are excluded; women and young people are victims of flagrant discrimination, which will be dealt with by the courts; soon, as well, most unemployed workers will receive benefits that will not exceed 50% of what they were earning.

Can the minister make a commitment to totally review the present program so as to bring it in line with the labour market realities of the year 2000?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the employment insurance system was completely reviewed and revamped in 1996, only four short years ago. We have monitoring and assessment reports which monitor the progress and the adjustment of Canadians to this new system.

As far as discrimination against women under the new system, it seems rather strange to me because women's unemployment rate right now is at the lowest point in 15 years at 5.6%. Sixty-one per cent of all claims involving small weeks projects were made by women. Two-thirds of our new family supplement recipients were women. Women have done well by our reform.

Competition Act

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. In today's global economy the effects of anti-competitive conduct are not limited by borders. The government needs to be able to enter into mutual co-operation agreements with other enforcement agencies to be able to effectively deal with anti-competitive conduct which crosses borders.

That is exactly what Bill C-471 will do. Would the minister tell Canadians what his and this government's position is regarding Bill C-471?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the very positive suggestion that the member has made in the context of Bill C-471. There have been a number of very useful recommendations with respect to the Competition Act that have been proposed by private members, including by the member for Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge and the member for Kitchener Centre.

I have asked the commissioner of competition, in light of the number of bills that deal with the Competition Act, to take those bills and use them as a basis for public and stakeholder consultation over the months to follow and if acceptable—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Macleod.

Canada Development Corporation

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, both the finance minister and the Prime Minister promised that they would release the minutes of the CDC when the finance minister was on the board.

Yesterday we got the documents. We got 100 pages of newspaper clippings, 100 pages of annual reports and 2 pages of whited out minutes. Why should not the victims of hepatitis C think that whited out minute documents are nothing but a whitewash?