Debates of April 6th, 2000

Canada Development Corporation

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister appears to be in a serious conflict of interest as a result of his relationship with Connaught Laboratories in the 1980s. Minutes from CDC board meetings could clear the air. The ethics counsellor passed those minutes on to the finance department and he warned that they would have to be released under the Access to Information Act.

When we asked for those minutes from the finance department, it denied it had those documents. Why?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, first of all the purpose of the ethics counsellor's report is to determine the very question the member has raised. I was the person who asked the ethics counsellor to undertake that full examination.

As far as access to information is concerned, I mentioned yesterday that I was not involved in that for obvious reasons, given the nature of the query. I have asked my department to do a thorough examination of the whole matter, and at the same time, in order to make sure it is as open and transparent as possible, my department has invited the information commissioner to come in and participate fully.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on May 25 the minister stood in the House and promised that he would release those minutes. Perhaps that was before he had read those minutes. Was it the contents of the minutes that caused the minister to refuse to release those documents?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have made it very clear that I have not seen the minutes that the hon. member is referring to. One thing which is very clear is that all pertinent information will be made available when the ethics counsellor makes his report.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as regards the tainted blood issue, in which the Minister of Finance could be found to have been in a conflict of interest, the Bloc Quebecois asked for an investigation as early as 1995.

We are now in the year 2000 and the Prime Minister confirmed yesterday that the ethics counsellor was looking at the issue and would submit a report.

Can the Prime Minister assure us that the ethics counsellor's report will be released as soon as possible, before the next general election?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, can the Deputy Prime Minister assure us that the ethics counsellor's report and all the documents relating to this issue will be tabled in this House as soon as the ethics counsellor has completed his report?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said that the document will be made public once he has received it.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance department has shown a high level of interest in this potential conflict of interest case. First a department official followed an ethics investigator to CDC's successor, Nova Chemicals in Calgary. Now we have documents that show that the finance minister himself seemed preoccupied with Nova.

The minister had the most senior ranks of his department involved in gathering information about Nova's move from Calgary to Pittsburgh. Was the finance minister really just concerned about the 65 jobs or did he have his senior finance officials digging because Nova was on his mind for other reasons?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, this is ludicrous. The fact is that when this issue first arose it was quite clear, as I stated in the House, that I asked my department to look into it right away. They began to do so. A very short time thereafter, I asked the ethics counsellor if he would undertake a full and thorough examination of the whole thing. For a period of time they operated on a parallel track until such time as the department turned the whole thing over to the ethics counsellor. That is exactly what happened.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at what is ludicrous. The deputy minister's office, two assistant deputy ministers, an associate deputy minister and other senior officials were tasked with getting information on Nova Chemicals for the Minister of Finance. That is pretty high priced help, I would suggest.

The finance minister no longer sits as a director of CDC. In fact the CDC no longer exists, yet he is intensely interested in its successor. Does he commit the same high priced resources to tracking all companies or just Nova Chemicals?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, to be quite honest, I am not quite sure I know what the hon. member is talking about in terms of all of this assemblage of public servants who are looking into one company.

The fact is part of Nova Chemicals did move to Pittsburgh and many people were quite interested in the move. However I do not think there was anything untoward and I do not think that the Department of Finance took any untoward interest in that.

Human Resources Development

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board said that, in her opinion, Human Resources Development Canada was able to look after its own affairs.

Since she is so confident, can the President of the Treasury Board confirm that she has seen the Placeteco file?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Repentigny knows very well that Treasury Board issues policies and directives with respect to grant and contribution transfer payments.

He is also very well aware that we worked closely with Human Resources Development Canada to establish a plan of action, that we are there to help and support them, and that we are fully confident that corrective action will be taken.

However, the daily business of this department is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for all her confidence, she has not seen the Placeteco file. The problem in this file is the invoices.

Is the President of the Treasury Board able to tell us whether she has seen Placeteco's invoices and are we to understand that she is agreeing to back up her colleague, the Minister of Human Resources Development?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I may have to give the member for Repentigny a lesson in public administration.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

I may have to give the member for Repentigny a lesson in public administration in order to make it clear to him that Treasury Board approval is not required for the grants and contributions in all these files, that they are the responsibility of the designated minister and that therefore he should be addressing his question to the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Canada Development Corporation

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister helped make CDC's decision to buy tainted blood. He later helped make the Liberals' decision not to provide—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We will hear the question.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, he later helped make the Liberals' decision not to provide compensation for the years he sat on the board of CDC. The finance minister thereby avoided being connected with any liability to the victims of tainted blood during his tenure at CDC. He was at the cabinet table with a clear conflict of interest.

Why has the government failed to deal promptly with this clear issue?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member, who is a person I respect, ought to ask herself whether she is not demeaning parliament when she stands up making statements such as that.

The hon. member knows as well that I have stated that I really have no recollection of having dealt with this issue in any way, shape or form when I was with the CDC.

The purpose of the ethics counsellor's report is to look at every single document to determine what the facts were and then to respond to the question of conflict of interest. She knows that is what the ethics counsellor's report is supposed to deal with, and we will deal with it as soon as it is submitted.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the question is why has the finance minister's involvement with tainted blood gone unanswered for so long?

The minister himself promised to make relevant documents public. Now we know that his department denied having documents which the ethics counsellor himself confirmed that it has. Now the minister is trying to make us believe that a report is coming, but we have another document which says that the whole investigation which would have allowed this report to be released was finished five months ago.

There are some real credibility issues here. Canadians need an answer.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.