Debates of May 4th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister stated in the House that she established a grants and contributions team on the advice of Deloitte & Touche contained in its report of February 2. She said the same thing today.

The program integrity audit released three months ago says that the grants and contributions performance tracking group was launched in September 1999. Why did the minister give the impression that she had taken the advice of Deloitte & Touche when in fact she had not taken any new action at all?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in the context of the work of my department in this undertaking it is absolutely clear that it has been made a priority of the senior management team.

The men and women of the Department of Human Resources Development are implementing this plan on a daily basis, working day and night to ensure that the contributions they make in the communities are good ones, to ensure that our accountability back to the taxpayer is clear.

If the hon. member opposite has recommendations to make, why have I received none to date?

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the first recommendation was that the minister resign.

The minister also said yesterday that she put in place a departmental directive on the issuance of payments following Deloitte & Touche's concern that grants may have been paid inappropriately. That was in their February 2 report. But we have a copy of that departmental directive and it is dated January 20, three months ago.

Why is the minister giving the impression to the House that she incorporated the advice of Deloitte & Touche in her six point plan when she so clearly has not taken any new action? Why is she telling people that she has taken action?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would take the time to visit some of the human resources development offices across this country to see the work that is being done on site, he would see that we have implemented changes. He would see that the men and women who are part of this very important department are working very hard to represent the interests of the Canadian public.

What we see on that side of the House is more misinformation. Clearly they are not interested at all—

[The Speaker]

I would ask that we stay away from those words. I am sure we could use others.

Cinar

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, an RCMP officer reported that there was a total lack of co-operation between the RCMP and the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, and he even said that the RCMP had its hands tied regarding CINAR.

How can the government explain the statements made by the Minister of National Revenue, who boasts about the great co-operation between his department and the RCMP?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure my hon. colleague that there is excellent co-operation between the RCMP and this department. There are certain regulations that must be followed and they are being followed. There is excellent co-operation.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we must have misunderstood the RCMP officer, who said yesterday that his hands were tied, that there was a total lack of co-operation and that they had reached an impasse. I imagine it is the minister who has the hot potato in his hands.

How does the minister explain that this government, which asked the Swiss government to violate the financial discretion rule in the Airbus case, is now doing its utmost to prevent any light being shed on CINAR, thus allowing, perhaps, some key players to get away with what they did? Perhaps these people are also friends of the Liberal Party.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government is not preventing anything from taking place. What this government and every government does is let the RCMP do its job. There are laws and regulations in this country concerning what information can or cannot be released.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, RCMP officer Pierre-Yves Carrier said that matters were at a complete impasse in the investigation into the CINAR affair and that he would be able to complete only two-thirds of his investigation because of the Department of National Revenue's lack of co-operation.

Does the minister realize that because of the impasse created by the department's lack of co-operation, the RCMP, as we heard yesterday from officer Pierre-Yves Carrier, may miss important players in its investigation?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I can say very clearly that there is full co-operation between the RCMP and the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, there is full co-operation. I am certain that Bloc Quebecois members will understand—and if they need proof, they can perhaps ask the member for Chambly, who certainly understands that it is important to maintain confidentiality in revenue files—that there are Canadian laws in place that are still respected by the agency and the RCMP.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if Bloc Quebecois members had not asked questions about CINAR in the House, if journalists had not probed deeper, if an RCMP officer had not raised the alarm on television, there is a good chance that none of this would have come to light and that, consequently, nothing would have been done to put a stop to these dubious practices. Ms. Charest would probably still be hosting benefit dinners for the Liberal Party of Canada.

Who does the government want to protect? What important players may be missed because of the lack of co-operation of the Department of National Revenue? More friends of the Liberal Party?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, these gratuitous accusations are completely unjustified. The Bloc Quebecois member opposite, like most Canadians I am sure, knows that these accusations are false.

The Government of Canada and the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency are co-operating fully with the RCMP but, at the same time, of course, we are respecting the law as passed by this House and this parliament.

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Bill 11 is now in its final form in Alberta. The government is faced with a bill that has not been amended in the way that the federal Minister of Health requested. Many would say that Premier Klein has sentenced medicare to death. The only power in the country that can commute that sentence is the federal government acting decisively to make sure that bill 11 is not implemented.

I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, what does the federal government intend to do to make sure that medicare does not die on its watch?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we will uphold and enforce the Canada Health Act. We have been proud of our creation of medicare and we will ensure that it continues. We will oppose the concept of two tier medicine which is being promoted, it appears, by the Klein government.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister could tell us then whether that means that in his view bill 11 violates the Canada Health Act and sanctions on the part of the federal government will be forthcoming. Could he be clear about that? Time is of the essence with respect to the possible NAFTA implications. Has the federal government, whether in the department of justice or trade or health, or somewhere, arrived at a point of view with respect to the NAFTA implications of bill 11? Albertans and all Canadians deserve to know this before the bill is passed.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has written to the Alberta minister of health setting out views on bill 11 and what should be done with it. The important thing is that we are committed to upholding and enforcing the Canada Health Act. All should take note of our commitment in this regard.

Public Works And Government Services

[Gilles Bernier, Progressive Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, in order to complete renovations on the parliament buildings, public works purchased and renovated the St. Andrew's tower and the East Memorial Building at a cost of $89 million. It then began spending $9 million to renovate the justice building so that MPs could be moved in while the House of Commons was worked on.

Why has the minister delayed this work for at least two years, at an additional cost of $90 million?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand the question of the hon. member, there has been no delay. Work on the justice building is going as planned. Because of the new communication technology that all members of parliament enjoy we want to make sure that such tools of communication are installed in the justice building before the building is turned over to you, Mr. Speaker, and members of parliament. Work is going according to schedule.

[Gilles Bernier, Progressive Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the justice building was supposed to have been completed last summer; not this year, not next year, last summer. Instead, it will sit empty until the summer of 2001.

The commercial cost of this property is $25 per square foot or $3.8 million per month. The total cost of keeping the justice building empty for two years is over $90 million. Will the minister order the department to complete the work so that the parliamentary renovations can proceed on time and on budget?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, again, the work is on time. I explained why it was taking a certain time to make sure that when members of parliament move to the building they can have the same installation and accommodation as they have in the existing building.

Maybe the hon. member should ask his own House leader who sits on the Board of Internal Economy. Maybe he would understand.

Human Resources Development

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the human resources minister has been telling the House that she changed her six point plan to correct the serious deficiencies pointed out by Deloitte & Touche.

The firm told the House committee on Monday that the minister's department assured them that the final plan incorporated Deloitte & Touche's recommendations. I ask her to explain why a comparison of the January version with the final version clearly shows that the recommendations were not dealt with in any meaningful way.