Debates of Oct. 1st, 2001

Canadian Airline Industry

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Madam Chairman, I have listened to the debate now for over two hours and would probably have to admit that I am only member of parliament now in the House of Commons who can speak from personal experience, because I am technically on leave from Air Canada. I worked for the industry for over 18 years and I am now on leave as I perform my public service in the House of Commons.

Before I begin my remarks, I would like to extend my condolences to the members of all the families of those airline employees who were killed in the unfortunate circumstances of September 11. As an airline employee I know exactly how those people must have felt. That day they stood on the bridgehead, closed the door, said good-bye to the flight attendants, gave a thumbs up to the captain and less than an hour later that plane was on the ground in a disastrous way. I must say that I spent a long time crying during those days, knowing that those airline employees perished in a terrible way. My heart goes out to those families, along with my condolences and those of my colleagues from Dartmouth and Halifax and the rest of the NDP caucus, provincial and federal, across the country.

I would like to give the House the names of some airline employees so that we can put this in perspective. The fact is that we are not talking about numbers. We are talking about human beings and their families. I was a proud airline employee for 18 years. I must say that in 1997 when I was nominated Paul Withers of the CBC said: “The Sackville--Eastern Shore nominations are now complete. The Conservatives have picked the well known, hard working member Ken Streatch, the Liberals have picked the former hard working member of council, Beverley Peters, the Reform have picked the former lieutenant-colonel of the military, Robert Cuthbert, and the NDP picked some airline worker named Pete Stoffer”.

That is exactly what he said after the nomination in 1997. I have yet to forgive that man for that comment, because the fact is I am proud to be an airline worker. I am proud to say that if I am not elected in the next election I would be proud to go back to the airline industry. For the thousands of airline people, their families and the affiliated associations connected to the airlines, I must say that it is a proud and noble job to have. I was very proud to work nine years in Yukon and nine years in the Halifax airport. I take offence to anyone saying that this is just a numbers game, let the market decide everything and we will have it.

I cannot believe the PC/DRC would stand up and say let the markets decide. The fact is that the United States has the most unregulated, market oriented airline industry on the planet and it is begging for money from the government. That was long before September 11.

There are many combinations in the problems of the airline industry. It has very little to do with September 11. I will give you the names of Bob Lochyer, a 26 year employee of Air Canada, Harvey Lane from Newfoundland, a 40 year member of the airline industry, Dan and Jennifer Carrier of Nova Scotia and Dave and Ronalda Savard of Nova Scotia. What a lot of people fail to understand is that this industry has a lot of husbands and wives working together. There are a lot of partners working together in this industry throughout the entire country. When the airline goes into a tailspin for whatever reason it does not affect just one income. It affects the entire income of that whole family. Probably there is not a pilot, an agent, a mechanic or a cleaner on those aircraft who would not move anywhere in the country to follow the job. Airline people are like that. I was like that.

In 1998 I was told I no longer had employment and that if I wanted employment I had to go where my seniority held. Thank God I had a union to protect my interests. I moved to Halifax, a decision I have never regretted.

It is very easy for me to stand up here and rally against Robert Milton, the CEO of Air Canada, but that will not solve the problem of the day. However I will tell Mr. Milton how offended I am by a comment in an e-mail sent to all the employees of Air Canada on September 26. This is the part that absolutely offends me as a person who has watched many of my colleagues follow down to the Canadian regionals, Air Atlantic and everyone else with the promise of jobs, equitable wages and everything else, only to have the rug pulled out from under them.

In the e-mail he says that it is expected that the launch of the low fare carrier will mitigate job losses in both the mainland and regional carriers as qualified surplus staff will be hired on a preferential basis by the low fare carrier. What that basically says is to hell with everyone, but by the way when the low fare carrier starts up, hopefully with a lot of government money, everyone will be hired back. We have no idea of what the circumstances, wages or conditions will be. It is incredible that this can happen.

I also want to thank the regional carriers. One suggestion I should make is that if Air Canada wants any government money or if the airline industry wants any government money they will have to sell off the regional carriers and allow them to be profitable on their own.

Another suggestion is that if the government plans to put in more money it has to have an equity share in the airline industry. It has to make sure that the government has people on the board of directors to give the public a say in the future of the airline carrier.

I could go on forever in this regard, but I want to say in closing that as an airline employee myself and now a member of parliament, I salute each and every one of those airline people throughout the country. I ask them to stop fighting among themselves and work toward a positive conclusion so that we can have an airline industry in the future that we can all be proud of.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot, ON]

Madam Chairman, we are a prisoner of our own symbolism. The current Prime Minister is fond of recalling that he got his name as a novice member of parliament by moving a private member's bill that renamed the national airline carrier Air Canada. Since that time, Air Canada's jets have been like emissaries of the country worldwide. They are seen in airports everywhere and they say Canada. The reality is that no major nation in the G-7 can afford not to have a national airline and not to have a national air carrier whose planes are shown in the airports of the world.

It is more than just a symbolic thing. Symbols have a powerful impact on people's imaginations and the way they interact with one another. The Air Canada symbol helps us in world trade. It helps us in selling ourselves as a nation across the world. That may be small in numbers, but large in heart, large in expertise, large in much of what we have to offer to the world. Therefore, I do not feel that we really have any choice but to rescue Air Canada. We have gone far enough, shall we say, in losing Canadian but we certainly, as a nation, cannot lose our airline symbol.

There is a second reason why the government is obligated to rescue Air Canada. I speak of Air Canada and not the other airlines, even though I think that they would be entitled to claim help as well. We have to rescue Air Canada because the government, for the right reasons or the wrong reasons depending on how we look at it, is responsible for putting Air Canada in the very difficult position that it finds itself in the wake of this crisis.

What should have actually happened when Canadian was having difficulty, was market forces should have been allowed to operate and Canadian should have gone under. The government instead, wishing to protect the jobs of Canadian airline employees, forced Air Canada, indirectly perhaps, to undertake a merger.

Indeed, those of us who have some knowledge of how business operates would have argued very strongly that the better thing for Air Canada and the airline industry would have been to let the market forces have their way. That is a terribly harsh thing to say when we are talking about people's jobs and livelihoods. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Air Canada is less able to withstand the events of September 11, because of the fact that it acquired Canadian, than it would have been if Canadian had been allowed to perish economically, as would normally happen.

To me the question of rescuing Air Canada is academic. How we do it is the subject of other people's speeches here. I feel very strongly that what is more effective than any rescue or any valid bailout, is to get the passengers back on Air Canada, get the travelling public back up in the air. I am concerned because the government has been very unwilling to take a position on airline security.

Some of the debate tonight was about the fact the government would bring in better technology to beef up security at airports, bomb sniffing machines and that kind of thing. However, the tragedy that occurred on September 11 and the reason why people are not flying is not because of airport security. It is aircraft security that has everyone frightened. Nothing changed on September 11 with respect to airport security. Airports have always been at risk by terrorists.

It goes back to the bombings of which I think the first was 1968. It was an airplane hijacking but not with the intent of a suicide flight into a ground target. In imaginations of people, they have this picture about what must have occurred on these aircrafts when people realized they were destined on a suicide mission. That is quite different than a normal hijacking where people on the aircraft might have had some hope of survival.

Actually I have nightmares about this. I think people across the land and across North America, if not the world, occasionally have dreams of this horrible situation in which they find themselves trapped in an aircraft that is on a mission of destruction and death.

If the government wants to get people flying again, it needs to take a strong line on aircraft security as soon as possible. The reality is Madam Speaker, that the Americans have moved very quickly in this regard. We cannot, as a country with a national carrier, not follow suit.

I was watching the news this evening and Peter Jennings was interviewing various people who were talking about the fact that Washington national airport will not open until it gets sky marshals in place and gets various other security provisions in place. The reality is that if the Americans do that with their aircraft, it is extremely unlikely, as a matter of fact it is not likely at all, that American aircraft flying out of Canada will not have sky marshals on them when they go to the United States. Similarly, it is extremely unlikely that the Americans will allow Air Canada aircraft to land in Washington or New York unless they have an equivalent level of security. I suggest that equivalent level of security would be sky marshals.

Some members on the opposite side, and on this side for that matter, might find it extremely hard to hear me, of all people, talking about the idea that our airlines should carry armed guards because I deplore the free use of firearms. I am not a hunter and I have no argument against hunters. However I certainly have a very large argument against the proliferation of weapons in the United States in the possession of civilians.

In this instance, if we are going to get Canadians back on to Air Canada as quickly as possible, we have to make a strong statement that at least for the short term until other security measures are in place that are just as strong, we have to do it. If we do not do it, I can assure the House that in my area of the province of Ontario people will simply go to Buffalo if they feel they can get an airplane that is safer. I do not think the government will have any choice because if the Americans bring in this level of security, Air Canada and any other carrier going into the United States from Canada will have to follow suit.

One might ask why the transport minister has not come out with this decision if it is so logical? I would suggest that it is one of the strengths and weaknesses of the Canadian parliamentary and cabinet system that this country, because of the cabinet system, can act very decisively. Once a decision is made in cabinet things move very quickly. On the other hand, to make sure that ministers do not go on expeditions solo, usually when there is the necessity of making a very important decision in their portfolios, they seek cabinet consensus. I would suggest to the House that when cabinet meets tomorrow this very subject of the security of aircraft will be high on the agenda.

It is certainly a very serious thing we have been faced with as a result of the terrible tragedy in New York. However the last thing we, as Canada, want to do to give any support to these terrorists, is to allow Air Canada to crash as a result of a terrorist act by these extreme groups like we saw in New York. Air Canada is a symbol of Canada. We have to maintain that symbol one way or another. If it involves a rescue package that is one thing. If it involves peace and security that is another. One way or another we have to preserve Air Canada.

[Jim Gouk, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Boundary—Okanagan, BC]

Madam Chairman, I am pleased to participate in this debate tonight to provide a few ideas, I hope, which the minister said he was looking for when he spoke earlier this evening. I trust he is paying careful attention to the ideas that have been brought up.

It has been said that many industries are affected by this, not just the airlines. There are the aircraft manufacturers, hotels and tourism outfits. It is all true. Of course, people ask how can we provide money when so many industries are affected and how do we deal with it? The reality is that it all evolves from the airline industry.

When the airlines do not take passengers and do not travel, they downsize which affects aircraft manufacturers and all their various suppliers. It affects hotels because there are no passengers travelling, and it goes on and on.

We can address a lot of the industry wide problems that have been created by this terrorist attack in September by dealing first and foremost and decisively with the problems in the airline industry.

The first thing we need to do to try to get airlines back on their feet is to regain the confidence of passengers that it is safe to travel and that we are taking prudent measures to ensure their flying safety.

I remember years ago when I flew out of Castlegar, there used to be scrambled seating on the 737s. I happened to like to fly in the front seat because I found it much more comfortable. However everybody scrambled on ahead of me and those seats were always taken until somewhere in the world there was an airline accident. Then invariably the investigators talked about how it was so much safer at the back of the plane. For the next several weeks or perhaps months, I had no problem getting my front seat.

We have the same thing happening right now. People have heard about this and they envision it occurring even in the smallest little communities from which they may fly out. They suddenly have this fear that flying is very dangerous. That is the first step the government needs to take. It needs to look at airport security. We have heard tales already tonight of how one in five attempts to smuggle fake weapons of one type or another through security have been successful. That is pretty scary in light of what happened and in light of passenger confidence. That needs to be cracked down on.

We have also heard some people, particularly on the government side, talk about reforming a crown corporation with Air Canada. For heaven's sake, if we have learned anything in the past, we should have learned that the airlines cannot be run by a government agency. The minister squanders enough money on VIA Rail, and that is small potatoes beside Air Canada. We do not need him dabbling in ongoing and permanent subsidies to Air Canada as well.

He might consider taking airport security back under the wing of the federal government, instead of having all the various airlines provide the security with minimum priced help, with unsupervised training and obviously not very good training. If one in five attempts to smuggle fake weapons through are successful, then obviously a much better job needs to be done.

If we could regain the confidence of the flying public and get the passenger count up, that helps not only the airlines, but it helps many of the other industries and of course their employees. We have heard quite a bit spoken tonight about the tremendous number of people who are becoming unemployed as a result of this.

The government has made a lot of mistakes in the past and not necessarily this government, because I do not want to pin everything on it. However governments in the past, this one and others, have made a lot of mistakes. When Air Canada was privatized, most of its debt was written off by the government.

I congratulate the Liberal government. When it privatized CN, it did not make that same mistake. I was on the transport committee at the time and I argued very loudly against doing that. The government to its credit listened and got a much better result in the privatization of CN than it did with the privatization of Air Canada.

I do not blame Air Canada. It was a private corporation now responsible for making money. It suddenly found itself out in the marketplace with a competitor, CP Air that had a heavy debt load. It did not have any debt load so it could go after CP and become the carrier of Canada. That is where the problems of the airline industry in the country really started.

The foreign ownership rules that restricted the amount of shares that could be held by non-Canadians ultimately was part of the downfall of Canadian Airlines. Canadian Airlines had partners outside Canada willing to make further investment and they were not allowed to. That was one of the roadblocks that ultimately brought Canadian Airlines to its end.

Another one was the foreign ownership rule for Air Canada. Air Canada, unlike the Onex deal, used its own internal funds and financing abilities to take over a troubled airline. There was no new capital. It was all just Air Canada taking on a lot of the debt of Canadian Airlines.

The Onex deal involved bringing a lot of new capital to the table. If it had been allowed to go through, in the end it would have been a much better operation for all those employees and for the travelling public. What finally brought down Canadian Airlines was the government's unwillingness to change the 10% ownership rule that any one shareholder could not own more than 10% of Air Canada. That was the final bring down of Canadian Airlines.

Air Canada was operating with tremendous debt structure and in severe financial problems before the September 11 crisis. There have been some changes since then. There have been changes to the layoff rules. In all honesty, the structure with regard to job guarantees that Air Canada went in with, while reassuring, was hardly practical. In my own home airport the employees of both airlines all stand behind the counter now and unfortunately, they did not see fit to get expanded counter space. There are so many of them they have to take turns standing up at the counter. It is very frustrating for the manager of the company in Castlegar to deal with that and still try to be responsible in terms of the bottom line.

Then there is the big issue of fuel taxes. I trust the minister is paying close attention to this one because this is one very fast way he could bring some relief to the air industry in Canada. When the GST was brought in by another government, the airlines were promised in return for imposing on their passengers this tremendous cost of an extra 7% on all tickets, that the government would get rid of all the other taxes that they had to pay. The airlines were promised that.

Madam Chairman, because it was not the government that is here now, I think can say that that government lied to the airlines. They did not take away all those taxes. They left a fuel tax. For this year alone Air Canada budgeted $46.7 million for excise tax on jet fuel, taxes that are largely not paid by its foreign competitors. That puts Air Canada at a severe disadvantage.

There has been talk of loan guarantees. For the record I would say that if loan guarantees are being considered, they should be only that amount that is necessary to ensure that Air Canada maintains the credit rating it had prior to this occurring. Those loan guarantees should be available to its competitors as well.

There should be no discount airline startups until all those guaranteed loans are paid. Then if it still wishes to go ahead with that discount airline, there should be an audit provided by the government that ensures there is no cross-subsidization of that discount airline from Air Canada. Otherwise all it is is a fancy name to do predatory action against the other airlines in Canada without having any accountability for it.

There should be, as some people have suggested, although not tonight, but I hear it brought up quite frequently, no unilateral action toward cabotage in Canada. Cabotage is where a foreign carrier can fly from point to point inside the country. There should be no unilateral declaration of that. If the United States wants to allow Air Canada to fly freely from point to point inside the United States, that is fine. However, it should not be done unilaterally in Canada. In the end that would kill Air Canada and it would not help the flying public in this country.

The government needs to move fairly quickly, but it needs to do it with prudence, if it has a good plan which it has brought to the House and which has been approved by the House. The government should not confuse prudence with vacillation. This problem cannot go on for a long period of time.

Sky marshals have also been mentioned. That is something the government needs to look at. In the United States people are being hired from the street, but they are soundly screened for both psychological profile and ability to do the job.

Perhaps the government might even consider asking some high frequency travellers if they would be interested in going through the screening and training process. Those people travel anyway. They would be authorized under the same provisions of a hired sky marshal. It might be a way to bring the numbers up without cost.

As far as reimbursing Air Canada, it should only be for the exact cost that it can prove occurred as a direct result of the September 11 events. I have many more ideas but I realize other members wish to speak.

[Jean Augustine, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Madam Chairman, this evening's take note debate gives me an opportunity to discuss Canada's airline industry and its present situation.

The horrific and tragic events of September 11 have left an indelible mark on our lives and the world of civil aviation. My condolences go to the families and friends who lost loved ones on that terrible day.

Many sectors of the Canadian economy have been greatly affected by the events, none more so than the airline industry. The airline industry, tourism industry, automobile industry, investment industry and others are still reeling from the economic impact of the tragedy. The crisis threatens to plunge us into a full blown economic disaster.

Hundreds of Canadians have already lost their jobs as a result. In my riding of Etobicoke--Lakeshore, a large number of my constituents are employed in the airline industry. They are indeed concerned about the impact of the events on their livelihoods, jobs and families. Since the crisis they have expressed to me, both through telephone calls and letters, the need for some federal government support to help the sector through this difficult period of uncertainty.

The events of September 11, 2001 are unprecedented in aviation history. I repeat this simply because I think this unprecedented event requires special measures in response. At no other time in modern history have we seen airline shares worldwide decrease at such an accelerating rate and competition choked off. Large airline carriers in the United States, France, Britain and other countries have significantly scaled back on their staff and usage of their fleets.

In Canada small carriers have cut back. Air Transat is an example as is Canada 3000. Similarly Air Canada, Canada's flagship carrier, announced 9,000 job cuts, a direct result of recent events.

I came to Canada 41 years ago on Trans-Canada Airlines. I believe in flagships. I believe there is a responsibility to provide safe service and that has been provided to us by Air Canada.

Our airline industry has lost billions of dollars over the past two weeks. There has been difficulty in meeting insurance payments and operating costs. Many of us have had letters written to us outlining the position. We understand that reduced demand is leading to overcapacity, higher costs and lower revenues. All this has affected the bottom line. The sector is vital to our community.

I say to the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Transport that we must do all we can to help the industry through this rough patch and to shore up confidence in Canada's airline industry.

I was pleased to hear the Minister of Transport state earlier that he will not allow Canada's flagship carrier to be bankrupted by these events.

Since this tragedy we have seen the U.S., U.K. and other governments move to provide some financial assistance. In this crisis we as Canadians owe this to our industry. It is not in the best interests of Canadians to allow a vital sector of our economy to be wiped out.

I am advising the minister to proceed with assistance based on the facts and come up with a fair plan to ensure the viability of the sector. We know that Air Canada in particular was experiencing difficulty before the events, but we also know that we should be assisting it to stabilize the turmoil that is now in the industry.

Canadians want us to act. Canadians want us to show responsibility to the industry. My constituents want us to act on that front in their own interests. We need to put confidence in the system. We need to continue to do what we have started to do. For example after insurance companies cancelled their third party war and terrorism coverage, the federal government got right in there and provided an indemnity for such liabilities for essential aviation service operators in Canada. There is also a 90 day period of coverage and limits to existing terms and conditions placed in that agreement.

We know that the federal government can help. We know it can give support. We know that it can do what is necessary.

The Air Canada employees in my riding want a strong airline company. They want the assurance the government will take steps to ensure that they will eventually return to their jobs.

In closing I want to assure the minister that not only will we support him as he evaluates and comes up with a plan or program, but we will work with him as he is doing with the Federal Aviation Administration to enhance aviation security throughout North America.

Since September 11 I have flown a few times from Pearson airport in Toronto. Those of us who travel on the airline have noticed heightened security measures: increased police presence, passenger screening, hand searches, airport security controls, enhanced baggage screening, passenger baggage screening, and the closing of the cockpit doors. I commend the Minister of Transport for those measures that have been brought in.

It is important to affirm that I stand behind Air Canada and the employees of Air Canada. I support our flagship. I support stabilizing Air Canada, stimulating all sectors of that industry, encouraging the passengers to continue to use the system. I look to the Minister of Transport to keep public confidence in our airline industry.

[John M. Cummins, Canadian Alliance, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Madam Chairman, the world airline industry is in turmoil as a result of events of September 11. The repercussions of plummeting passenger loads are widespread. Travel agents, hotels, restaurants and taxis have all been impacted by cancelled reservations and the decreased numbers of people willing to travel by air.

Unless the decline in passenger travel is reversed, manufacturers of aircraft and their components will also soon be impacted. It is a huge blow to our economy given present circumstances. The slowdown is affecting carriers worldwide.

American Airlines, the world's largest carrier with over 110,000 employees, is contemplating layoffs of 20,000 people. Last month American Airlines went through $1 billion in cash and is now working aggressively to arrange additional financing so it can keep its doors open, according to its chief executive officer, Donald Carty. He also stated that the primary challenge is survival, not profitability. He noted that as of last week the scaled back system of American Airlines had a load factor of about 50%, the equivalent of operating the pre-September 11 schedule with a 40% load factor.

The Swissair group could also go out of business within the next few days if a last minute rescue initiative fails to materialize. The chairman and chief executive officer, Mario Corti, said on Swiss television that the company will be threatened with bankruptcy without the recapitalization it expects in the next few days. Its problems, like Air Canada's, predated the September 11 tragedy but the outlook is not much different without some sort of assistance.

Air Canada is in trouble and that is the reason for this debate. The job of the government is to fix the problem. Air Canada must be kept afloat because we need a safe and dependable national carrier to do business. If Air Canada flounders, given the state of the world's airlines,no one is likely to come in to fill the gap. There will be a huge disruption which will be very costly to business.

What we should do? Some have urged the government to take an equity position in Air Canada. I reject that position on the premise that government's role is to regulate. The job of private enterprise is to maintain the successful operation of a business. All too often the success of private enterprise is dependent on good regulations. That is the case now. Turning the clock back and making Air Canada a crown corporation will not help.

In their comments on the Air Canada crisis, fundamentalists if I may use that term, the free market, no rules and no regulations theorists, would allow the hangar to burn along with all the planes. They would have us believe that some free market good fairy would put it all together again at a lower cost, with increased levels of safety, and so on. It does not quite work that way in the real world.

Air Canada's problem prior to September 11 centred on the failure of the government to provide leadership for the airline sector. Its problems after September 11 were no different. Bolstering consumer confidence in the safety of our skies is the surest way to help Air Canada recover from this difficult time. The government must take action on this front now.

Since the tragic events of September 11 airline bookings in the country have plummeted, resulting in huge shortfalls not only for the airlines but also for others. Despite repeated requests for increased and improved airport security, the use of sky marshals and additional security procedures aboard Canadian commercial aircraft, the government has refused to take action.

Let us compare this inaction with the resolve of the Americans. President Bush is expanding the use of armed and plainclothes officers aboard commercial airlines, restricting access to the cockpit, developing aircraft tracking equipment that cannot be turned off, and putting the federal government in charge of all airport security and screening, including the purchase and maintenance of all equipment. In addition the U.S. government is committed to stabilizing its industry with $22 billion Canadian.

Given the direct losses and increased costs related to the events of September 11, given the dislocation to the Canadian economy and the job losses, both direct and indirect, the government must commit to ensuring the stability of the Canadian airline industry with prudent cash support, appropriate security regulations and a reasonable regulatory system.

If the government took this common sense approach to restoring public confidence in air travel, it would go a long way toward saving jobs threatened by the current situation. A healthy airline industry would have a positive influence in these troubled times.

What we need from the government is a commitment to the success of a national carrier, commitment to the success of regional carriers and commitment to the success of the independent carriers. Commitment to success in the airline industry has long been lacking in Canada. It is time for a change.

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Madam Chairman, there is no doubt that the tragic events of September 11 had a very profound effect on the airline industry worldwide. Immediately following the attack, planes were ordered to land and the airspace was closed.

Many Canadians found themselves unable to return home from abroad to be with their loved ones. I was one of a number of Canadian provincial, territorial and federal parliamentarians participating in an international meeting of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in Australia at the time the attacks took place. We were unable to return home.

When the planes started flying and the skies over the United States were gradually opened, people who had been stranded slowly returned home. I must add that I was so pleased that I was able to return home aboard an Air Canada flight that would fly over American airspace. I knew it would be Air Canada and I knew I would be safe and eventually return home to my family.

However, after those initial returns traffic did not pick up. A week later the airports were visibly empty. I can say that because within a day of my return from Australia I was coming back to Ottawa and the flights were empty. People who did not need to travel and had returned home to their loved ones were no longer travelling.

Friends of mine cancelled their holidays to Europe, not for fear of flying but because they had a feeling that it was better to stay home to be with their families during these uncertain times. Today, getting on a flight to return back to Ottawa, almost three weeks after the attack, I note that the airports are still empty. There are no longer traffic jams outside departure levels at the airport. The lineups have disappeared. People are not flying.

The airline transportation system is an important part of our national and international economic infrastructure. Consequently, as the government has a key role in ensuring that our trade in goods continues to flow as quickly and efficiently as possible across our borders, so too I believe that our government has a role in ensuring that our trade in services continues to flow both nationally and internationally. It must ensure that the people who perform those services have access to the transportation they need in order to efficiently and quickly access their markets and perform those services.

Our trade in services is a foundation for our future prosperity. Our economy is largely service based, so much so that three out of four jobs in Canada are in the service industries. Last year services accounted for 90% of the 319,000 new jobs that were created in Canada.

On September 26 I received a letter from Air Canada, which I believe was also sent to all members of parliament, to advise of its recent appeal to the Government of Canada for direct and indirect assistance resulting from the terrorist attack. The letter noted that numbers of passengers heading to the United States were down by 30% and that Air Canada had reduced its overall network schedule by 20% and also had removed 84 aircraft.

Air Canada also advised that it approached the federal government for a financial package which would address the following: first, to offset the losses that occurred as a result of the three day service interruption; second, to help mitigate the anticipated medium or long term decline in passenger volume; and third, to compensate Air Canada for staggering new airport security and insurance costs.

With respect to the third request, I would like to note that Air Canada and WestJet have just added a $3 surcharge to each ticket to offset the increased insurance costs. Air Canada has acted quickly.

Before considering the requests I have just noted, it is very important to examine how other airlines are faring internationally and what other governments are doing to assist their airlines.

American major airlines suffered substantial losses. Two of the airlines lost four aircraft and all the passengers aboard those aircraft died on September 11. It is not just United Airlines or American Airlines that suffered losses. All major airlines announced layoffs and schedule reductions as a result of the decrease in traffic. The United States government provided airline industries with an equivalent of $7.5 million Canadian in cash payments and also $15 million Canadian in loan guarantees.

Let us look at what is happening in Europe. British Airways, Europe's largest airline, reduced a number of its scheduled flights as a result of the drop in demand for air travel since the United States attack. Transatlantic travel has fallen sharply.

Last week British Airways cut 5,200 jobs on top of the 1,800 jobs announced earlier and it grounded 20 aircraft. British Airways, similar to Air Canada, was suffering the effect of gloomy economic news with the result of a decrease in air traffic before September 11. Similar to Air Canada, it responded prior to September 11 by cutting capacity, jobs and flagging more job cuts in 2002.

Interestingly enough the government of Prime Minister Blair has not come up with a compensation package. Swissair is also struggling to stay alive. I use the example of Swissair because like Air Canada it is a national airline and it too was suffering losses prior to September 11.

The Swiss government indicated that it was willing to play a role in the refining of the airline but that role has not yet been defined. Jean-Pierre Roth, chairman of the Swiss National Bank, was reported as having stated that he did not think government action to bail out any company in difficulty was a viable long term solution.

It is also important to note that he did not rule out state intervention. He was quoted in the Sunday Toronto Star as having stated

State intervention may be necessary in a case of an emergency, in an extremely specific situation, but...in the end a private sector response will be the long-term solution.

Mr. Ross also stressed the importance of a national airline to Switzerland with Zurich as its main financial centre and Geneva, the European headquarters of the United Nations and home to many international organizations. However, notwithstanding what Mr. Roth said, this morning the shares of Swissair ceased to be traded.

It is important to note that the decline in the demand for air travel also affected those industries which support the airline industry. We read last week that Bombardier announced that it will be cutting 3,800 jobs and decreasing production for fear the airlines will not be able to come up with the cash being the gap between the amounts financed by third parties and the purchase price of the aircraft. There is a fear that whatever cash will become available will be used to cover operating costs.

Landing fees decreased due to less volume. Catering operations decreased by 18% and it is anticipated that fuel providers will also be affected.

Ensuring the long term viability of the airlines is important not only for the airline industry but for the many sectors that support that industry. The important question that arises is how to best ensure that viability.

There is a general feeling that a private sector solution is preferable. However we must bear in mind that the September 11 attacks were unpredictable and devastating. Canadians would generally agree that it is important for Canada to have a national airline because it is more than just a national symbol.

What should be done? First and foremost we should look very closely at compensating Air Canada for the losses it sustained in the three days it was not in service. How do we assess those losses? It could be done the same way that we prove losses in court by indicating direct consequences and losses resulting from that three day period.

The federal government and the airlines must continue to assess the impact of the events of September 11 on the airline industry. We must continue to examine all requests for financial assistance by Canadian air carriers carefully and in light of the global context of the industry.

The federal government would like Air Canada and the unions representing its employees to work together toward a solution acceptable to all parties. Canada, because of its sheer size, needs a viable aviation industry with an economically strong national carrier. I hope we in the House can work together to find the right solution.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Madam Chairman, all the impacts the events of September 11 will have on our lives and particularly on our economy are not known yet.

The very first impact, besides the horror and the bitter taste we were left with, is certainly that we have come to realize that things will never be the same on our planet.

Every serious political and financial pundit in this world agrees that things will never be the same as before this awful day. Democracies and their economies have all been tremendously affected.

These events have led countries to collectively reflect on the situation, like they never had before. Every state had to stop and rethink, if not reconsider, their relations with other countries.

It would be great if all this rethinking would lead us to sustainable peace, the redistribution of wealth, shared values, mutual respect and especially respect for life and freedom.

These last few days, a great many people made almost the same statement. The world is going through a crisis. The economies are in crisis, and the various countries have to do something about it.

Some observers even go as far as to question the way globalization has taken place or is taking place. The great states of the north, of which we are part, have not really listened to the wishes expressed by poorer countries that wanted free trade to be more respectful of people and of local and regional economies.

One of the lessons we must learn from the events of September 11 is that the concentration of decision-making centres in one place make us most vulnerable to this new form of war, terrorism.

Many large corporations operating at the international level lost their senior executives on September 11. It will take years before they can rebound from that.

Closer to us, thousands of people find themselves unemployed. Thousands of families will see their income reduced by nearly 50%. Thousands of families will suffer from this new kind of insecurity, which inevitably brings with it a host of social problems.

I think that what we see in the media reflects a form of insensitivity that we have felt in the words of our political leaders. The first page of major newspapers and the news on major television networks all say the same thing “Air Canada cuts 9,000 jobs; another carrier, 1,200; another business, 200; another one, 600”. It looks a lot like a list of statistics which, like any other statistics, will soon be forgotten.

We are not only talking about lost jobs here. We are talking about human beings who find themselves unemployed. We should not be reading that 9,000 jobs were cut, but rather that 9,000 people are now unemployed.

Moreover, I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. As I was saying earlier, we have not yet felt the full impact of the events of September 11.

There will likely be more layoffs announced over the course of the next days, weeks, and months. Of course, these people will be eligible for employment insurance, as a government member mentioned, as though employment insurance were some sort of magic solution to all of the pain caused by the events of September 11, as though employment insurance could solve the problem of all of the Air Canada employees and allow them to continue living.

What kind of employment insurance are we offering them? An employment insurance that has been slashed, virtually destroyed by a government whose sole objective was to pay off a deficit and debt caused by years of waste, of shameless spending, which continues in some sectors, particularly by overlap that could easily be fixed if the political will existed.

To deal with the situation in which we currently find ourselves, we need more than today's employment insurance, that is to say, in its current form. For years, we in the Bloc Quebecois have been asking for a return to a real employment insurance program, which would protect workers adequately in difficult times such as those we are currently experiencing.

Our message then and now is glaringly relevant, especially today, unfortunately. The events of September 11 have led us to reflect, collectively, on the role of the state. This is the specific issue that tonight's motion deals with.

Why do we elect governments in so-called democratic societies? What good does a government do if, in hard times, it answers stupidly that we have to wait and see? Do we really need to wait until the ship has sunk before launching the life rafts? Does the economy need to be rock bottom before we take action?

I personally believe that the government has a role to play as regulator, particularly with respect to Air Canada and the airline industry. To support the economy and employment during hard times, a government must shed its conservative ways and wait and see attitude and show some creativity.

For years, the government's attitude has led to abandonment of the regions. This is particularly the case for air transportation. This government has done everything possible to unload the few infrastructures it did have in the regions. From the state as provider, we have moved to the state as non-presence. One might even think that there was an avowed wish to close down the regions, to leave them so little leeway that they would disappear through attrition.

As I said earlier, air transportation is a good example. It had virtually ceased to exist in the regions, and I trust that, despite the cuts announced at Air Canada, the regions will not again have to pay for what has occurred. In our regions, we are already in an extremely difficult situation. Services have been cut back. We are poorly serviced, if at all, and at ridiculous cost.

Great care must therefore be taken when addressing the difficulties being faced by the Canadian airline industry. Vigilance and prudence are necessary to avoid having this difficult and serious situation not simply put an end to a fundamental service, our air service, which is already in a precarious position.

This leads me to make the point that the cuts announced by Air Canada involved 9,000 job cuts, and apparently 1,000 of those are in regional airports.

For all these reasons and given the current situation, it is imperative that services be maintained. I say maintained, but I should really be talking about development and improvement in the regions.

I hope that the regions will not have to pay a high price. Considering what limited services we were getting, the state has a responsibility to take action so as to ensure that we will at least keep what little we had.

The government must be proactive and it must speed up the review of all the investment projects submitted by regional companies. It must adopt more flexible criteria, because its criteria often do not reflect the realities and needs of the regions. It must also co-operate with the Quebec government and with the other provincial governments. This is no time for pointless squabbles. Democracy must be respected.

The Quebec government has already begun a process that is giving excellent results in so-called remote areas. Whether in the Gaspé Peninsula or in the Matapédia Valley, people are beginning to hold their heads high, and it would be tragic if the events of September 11 were to stop this new momentum. It would also be tragic if these events were to prevent us from developing and expanding because, among other things, of a lack of transportation services.

I am asking this government to work with the Quebec government and with the other provincial governments to help our regions make it once and for all. This is a necessary and urgent change of attitude.

I remain convinced that we will be less vulnerable when our regions are stronger and when our decision making centres are not all concentrated in the same location.

As a Bloc Quebecois member, I am asking the government to take action and to do so to help the regions.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Madam Chairman, no one asked for the events of September 11. No one invited the terrorists. No one wanted them. People are abhorred with the results and how those actions have basically turned the world upside down. It is a reality that we in Canada and others throughout the world have to deal with the fallout from those terrible events.

Those events have had a huge impact on the airline industry. IATA estimates the economic cost of the current crisis on the airline industry at $15 billion Canadian. In the United States alone 133,000 jobs have already been lost. The Swissair group could be out of business in the next few days.

These are very serious matters that we are dealing with in very difficult times. The question before us is whether or not the federal government should assist Canada's airline industry and, if it does, what form that assistance should take.

In my riding of Etobicoke North, which is very near Lester B. Pearson airport, many of my constituents are very deeply affected, whether they are airline employees, employees of the Greater Toronto Airport Authority or Lester B. Pearson airport, airline taxi or limousine drivers or owners, car rental businesses, airport hotels, airport restaurants or whatever.

Let us refresh ourselves on some of the facts and some of the history. In the year 2000 we effectively named for all intents and purposes Air Canada our national carrier. The alternative was to allow Canadian Airlines to go bankrupt. Maybe in hindsight this would have been the more preferable thing to do. Having lived in western Canada for 12 years I know the attachment and the symbolism of Canadian Airlines, as many of us in the House know.

The government tried to make it work. Overall I believe the integration of Air Canada and Canadian Airlines has been reasonably successful. Granted there are Canadians who have encountered some deficiencies with Air Canada. In fact many of us have encountered them, whether it is cancelled flights, peanuts of the wrong flavour or whatever. We know there have been some service deficiencies.

Today we are not talking about minor service deficiencies. We are talking about the very survival of Canada's airline industry.

I should like to articulate the principles I would use to determine what federal support the government should be responding with for the airline industry. The initial comment by Air Canada's President Milton when he threw out the number of $3 billion to $4 billion unfortunately has tarnished the debate. The number is totally unrealistic given Canada's fiscal positioning. Frankly I think it was a number that was sucked out of the air.

We should be considering the losses that the airlines have incurred as a result of closing down the skies. More important, we should be looking at the challenges facing Canada's airline industry as we move forward.

In fairness and being fiscally responsible we should be limiting it to the airlines themselves. In my riding I know many ancillary industries are affected, but the reality is that if we can get Canadians back into airline seats, if we can get travellers into airline seats, it will begin to have a ripple effect through the ancillary industries we all want.

For us to look at compensating all secondary industries that support the airline industry, we would be having auditors reviewing this for the next 10 years. Frankly at the end of the day I am not sure it would be affordable. We need to keep our eye on the issue of getting passengers back on to airlines. That is a global problem. That is a global challenge.

Canada is responding with measures to make passengers feel more confident about flying in aircraft. Closing the cockpit doors and other security measures at the airport are all helping, but it will take some time for us to get back to that position.

Some argue that the whole world has changed irrevocably as a result of September 11, that we will see businesses teleconferencing and that the demand for air travel will be permanently down.

I am not one who shares that view. Over many months people will start getting into planes. It behooves us all to make sure that our security systems, our border controls and our other ancillary services are done in a way to make sure our security is safe and sound.

If the airlines are up and running again, I think that businesses and individuals who work in that sector directly and indirectly will benefit from that. That is the most realistic approach to take.

In looking at Air Canada and the whole airline industry, although Air Canada seems to be the one with the bigger problem, we need to look at it from the point of view that all stakeholders need to be involved. The federal government alone cannot solve Air Canada's problems moving forward. We have to look at the airline employees, including management. What can they contribute the make Air Canada structurally sound moving forward? What about the debt holders? This has been an impediment to the restructuring of Air Canada. The debt holders of Canadian and other debt holders will have to, as the expression goes, put some water in their wine. Governments at all levels will have to make a contribution.

We need to separate out what happened as a result of September 11 and what issues were impacting the airline industry in Canada before September 11. We do know that Air Canada had some problems. Is that a function of their cost structure? Did it have certain overheads that were disproportionate to what was allowed in the marketplace? Did it have enough flexibility in terms of its union contracts? I know that one of my constituents talked about the concept of in-house scope, which he believes is the largest single impediment to the restructuring of Air Canada.

Was Air Canada in trouble because of increased market share being taken by some of the competitor airlines? If that is the case, that is a problem, because we want to encourage WestJet and the Canada 3000 to create more competition for Air Canada domestically.

We have given to Air Canada an incredible opportunity with a world mandate in terms of the international routes. Yes, granted, there is severe competition on those routes. However, it has an opportunity here, and I know I would like to see it succeed. I think most Canadians would like to see it succeed.

The question is, what is its business plan in moving forward? Does it have a sound business plan? What does that involve? Does that mean restructuring? Does it mean refinancing? Does it mean employees being more flexible with their contracts? Does it mean management taking some salary cuts? Whatever it takes, we have to understand that the federal government alone cannot get Air Canada back into the situation it once was.

Someone asked why does the Government of Canada not purchase treasury shares in Air Canada and maybe deprivatize Air Canada. I am not sure that would be a positive thing to do. I think that would be a retrograde step. Nonetheless, any aid that the Government of Canada gives to Air Canada and Canada's airline companies should have some performance standards, some strings attached to that so that moving forward Canadians feel confident that there is something in it for them, that we have helped Air Canada and the airline industry restructure and because of all that it will become a more responsive and a more customer focused airline industry in Canada.

Although taking treasury shares or maybe deprivatizing Air Canada is tempting in many respects, the question also is why would the Government of Canada want to inherit some of the challenges that Air Canada is facing right now. I am not sure the government can do any better a job than management at Air Canada.

Air Canada is an amazing company and has an amazing opportunity, as do all airlines in Canada. We have to make sure that it is restructured on a sound business footing, that it is sustainable into the future and that whatever Canada does is also matched by some contributions by all the stakeholder groups so that we have a sound airline industry and we can get over the September 11 crisis.

[Peter Goldring, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Centre-East, AB]

Madam Chairman, I would like to split my time with the member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca, if I could.

[The Assistant Deputy Chairman]

In the committee of the whole we do not really split our time because the rules give 10 minutes to each member. You can speak for five minutes and allow another member to rise, and I will recognize him for the other five minutes.

[Peter Goldring, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Centre-East, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

On September 11, I was one of the few members of parliament who was here in Ottawa and on Parliament Hill. I saw firsthand, during the attacks on the United States, how unprepared our government was to protect those people on the Hill, whether they were tourists or whether they were workers.

By noon on September 11, airport landings in the United States had been halted. Planes in the air were being diverted to Canada. If terrorism was still in the air, it was coming to Canada.

In addition, President Bush had issued orders for the United States air force to shoot down any plane approaching Washington. It was only at 2.00 p.m., more than four hours after the crisis had begun to unfold, that the RCMP closed Parliament Hill to the public traffic, with barriers and guards.

From the perspective of countering terrorism, September 11 was not a day of which Canadians can be particularly proud. Today, though, is an opportunity to assess our weaknesses and make security improvements that are in the interest of both Canada and the world.

One such improvement was made by the president of the United States. President Bush appointed of Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge as head of their newly created office of homeland security, and in the words of President Bush, “to lead, oversee and co-ordinate a comprehensive national strategy to safeguard” the United States against terrorism.

I believe Canada must follow this lead in establishing a mirroring co-ordinated agency or ministry within Canada to act against international terrorism. The need for a co-ordinated effort is clearly evident for continental security.

Some approaches that might be explored by a homeland security ministry include the development of unconventional security analyses and recommendations. For example, we should upgrade the security credentials of all frontline airline workers, those responsible not only for security check-ins but the caterers, as well as ticket agents and customs workers. Airline personnel should be required to meet tougher new terrorist prevention awareness standards, standards that would be set internationally, possibly regulated through ISO 9001 standards or by Canadian General Standards Board, the CGSB. Presently, security scanner operators may be landed refugees with poor communications skills and only a work permit.

Other security strategies would include two. There is a danger of chemical and biological infiltration in airline cabins that can be met by electronic detectors, plus rapid emergency cabin air evacuation and repressurization to re-establish air quality. Flight deck security should be enhanced by armored integrated cabin doors. Flyby wire control conduits can be armour plated for security from explosive damage.

Additional measures and controls are numerous. Improved electronics could allow for flight plan lock-in to autopilot with limited release and range operation by pilots that would not allow an aircraft to be diverted without ground control release of security.

Plain clothes armed air marshals are an absolute necessity to keep in step with the threat reduction initiatives of other nations. The only issue to be debated should relate to the number of flight marshals and the percentage of flights that they should be present on, yet the Minister of Transport vehemently disagrees.

Also, another initiative could be that the flight recorders, the black boxes, should be improved to provide not just voice and digital data from the cockpit but also voice and video data from the cockpit and passenger cabin.

In addition to flight recordings with multiple point sound and visual sensors, there also should be concurrent transmission to ground of all air activities, sound and video. Obviously breaking technology would help address some of these proposals.

We have a choice. Better shared security over our continental perimeter with the United States or alternatively we will expose our great hitherto undefended international border to greatly hampered trade and tourism that will adversely affect our economy.

The starting point is to establish a mirroring homeland security ministerial office to work in step with the United States on continental security against terrorism.

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Madam Chairman, I thank the member for Edmonton Centre--East. My 10 minute speech will be truncated to two and a half minutes so that I can share the time with the member for Surrey Central.

I have the highlights of my 10 minute speech in bullet form on how to save Air Canada. It is a vexing problem but it can be done. We should in part look at Continental and Southwest, two carriers that have been making money in the period of a downturn.

On the bailout issue, we are not going to give $3 billion, but a smaller number should be given to a company that prior to September 11 was worth $710 million.

On the issue of merging, date of hire should be the method used. It is the fairest method. Imagine having a pilot in the right seat with 15 years seniority over the pilot on the left. Those cannot be merged together if it is not date of hire.

The best way to deal with the issue of labour woes, which airlines across the world are suffering from, is with final offer arbitration. It will force both sides to come to the centre. It is reasonable and effective. Striking should be forbidden in groups working in the airline industry. Airlines are absolutely essential and crucial for an economy to function.

On the organizational side, Air Canada is drowning in paperwork as we speak. It has at least doubled the amount of paperwork that individuals have to labour under. That should be removed.

On the ticketing side, it should go back to using SABRE. It works. For baggage a computerized tracking system is needed. The current baggage handling system does not work.

The parts inventory must be computerized. Right now it is not. Mechanics do not know where the parts are. This leads to increased inefficiencies.

Cut down the routes that do not work. Decrease the number of flights on those routes that do not produce revenue. Maximize the number of people travelling on those routes. This will increase profitability.

On the manpower issue, scoping by pilots should not be allowed. Pilots should be allowed to work on the planes they are familiar with.

On the issue of equality, it is equal pay for equal work. There simply cannot be individuals who do the same job in the same or different areas who are being paid different amounts. Listen to all the groups. Bring in managers from Southwest and Continental. Both of those airline companies have done a superb job in rejuvenating those two airlines which were on the brink of bankruptcy.

On aircraft maintenance, contracting out to privatized handlers would probably not work and there could be an element of danger. Look at the airlines that crashed in the U.S.

Allow the regional carriers to manage their own affairs. They are doing a good job. They fly at capacity. Allow that aspect to be decentralized to the regions and they will function very well.

We cannot give money to Air Canada and allow it to function as a low cost carrier to drive WestJet into the ground. It is not fair and reasonable.

Listen to the people who work for the company. The employees have excellent suggestions. Provide a venue for them to offer solutions. Reward them for providing cost-cutting solutions. It will increase morale and there will be a functional airline at the end of the day.

[Gurmant Grewal, Canadian Alliance, Surrey Central, BC]

Madam Chairman, I thank the hon. member for allowing me to share his time.

Perhaps there are more airline employees living in Surrey Central, the constituency I represent, than any other constituency in Canada.

After the Competition Act was suspended in 1999, an offer for Canadian Airlines from Onyx Corporation of Montreal was blocked. The result was that Canadian Airlines was swallowed up debt free by Air Canada. Air Canada failed to live up its 180 day guarantee it made in 1999. Instead, it cut routes, shed 9,000 jobs, raised prices and lowered the quality of service in Canada. This resulted in the troubles that accumulated in Air Canada.

The anti-competitive practices that Air Canada has continued have driven other carriers out of the industry, such as Canadian Airlines, Greyhound, Roots Air, CanJet, Vista and Royal. They have all fallen victim to Air Canada's anti-competitive practices.

The first people who should bear the brunt of this mismanagement of the airline should be the shareholders and bondholders. The second group of people should be the credit adjusters who take risks and give credit. Since they expect to share the benefit they should also share the losses if there are any. It should not be the taxpayers who pay the price for the mismanagement of the airline.

Air Canada has the highest capacity among all the airlines and capacity is function of cost, so the cost is high, the debt is high, there are more employees, more inefficiency and more waste. That is the accumulation of the problems which the chief executive officer of Air Canada is trying to camouflage under the September 11 incidents. I believe this problem should be taken care of mathematically, economically and on a cost profit basis.

As far as safety is concerned, the government has not given any concrete proposals. The government has not yet said whether it will allow air marshals on flights in Canada. The security measures that are in place are not adequate. After someone checks in with security at the gate they can buy knives in the terminal from the gift shop. Security is not particularly efficient.

I do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I see tunnel at the end of the light. I believe the government should take concrete action, come up with a proposal and present some legislation to that effect so that our air industry can be competitive and safer.

The airline industry is not the only industry bearing the brunt of hard times. The softwood lumber industry made 14,000 to 15,000 employees in my province of British Columbia suffer as well. The situation is similar in the agriculture and trucking industries. They are also suffering.

Since I have run out of time, I would ask the government to look at the bigger picture rather than just giving handouts to their Liberal friends.

[The Assistant Deputy Chairman]

It being 10 p.m. pursuant to order made on Thursday, September 27, the committee will rise and I will leave the chair.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

The House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24.

(The House adjourned at 10 p.m.)