Debates of Oct. 15th, 2001

Organized Crime

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government is working on a number of fronts to combat money laundering. The Proceeds of Crime (money laundering) Act is a very important strategy.

Beginning next month Fintrack will be responsible for reporting and analyzing financial information.

A very important conference is being held in Montreal on international money laundering. Over 45 countries are participating. I wish them all the success in the world.

Customs and Excise

[Myron Thompson, Canadian Alliance, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general last year reported that much of the information customs uses is out of date. The current customs database is not hooked up everywhere with the RCMP database and there have been reports that information coming from immigration Canada is up to four months old.

Will the minister implement immediately a real time hookup in which information is shared instantaneously at every crossing, whether it is land, marine or airport?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member were aware of what is taking place at customs he would know that at the land border, at the primary inspection lines, customs officers have access to the data banks of both immigration Canada and Canada customs. At the secondary, as well, we have access to other data banks that we are using as a tool.

Second, if the hon. member were informed about what is taking place and what is going on at customs, he would know as well that last week we announced a package of technology and more human resources. In that package there is an amount of money in order to upgrade the computer system that we have for the primary inspection line.

[Myron Thompson, Canadian Alliance, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this member has been at the border crossing. He knows what it is going on. I find it unacceptable that some customs officers in remote ports across Canada have no access to computer systems.

The customs officers in Victoria presently do not have a single computer at the main terminal. They are operating out of a 35 year old trailer and are still using lists on 30 year old clipboards.

With more than a million people passing through that port a year, how can a clipboard with lists do the job properly?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the customs officers have been provided with the necessary tools to fulfill their work. If members would look at the announcement made last week, we will upgrade the computer system at the land borders, at the airports and at seaports.

If members were aware of the bill pending in the House of Commons, Bill S-23, they would know as well that we will put in place one of the best customs systems in the world. When we talk about technology at customs at the land border, we talk about Canada customs.

Terrorism

[Robert Lanctôt, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the fight against terrorism involves concerted action on the part of all countries to freeze the assets of terrorists and block the sources of funds for their activities.

Does the Minister of Finance not find it a bit of a paradox that the Canadian government is involved in the fight against terrorism and is also refusing to denounce its agreement with Barbados, a renowned tax haven, facilitating the financial activities of international terrorists through Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows very well that Canada has taken the lead of all countries by putting a method in place to freeze the assets of terrorists.

I would like to congratulate my colleagues, the Minister of Justice, and the Solicitor General of Canada for their initiatives in this area.

International Aid

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the people of Afghanistan are facing the worst humanitarian crisis since Rwanda with four million to five million refugees fleeing at the borders.

Canada so far has given $6 million while Norway has contributed $80 million and Sweden has contributed $50 million. The executive director of the Canadian Catholic Organization for Development and Peace has said that Canada's lack of action is a disgrace.

The Minister for International Co-operation said earlier that we will increase our aid as soon as it is absolutely necessary. Will she increase that aid now to meet this crisis?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, Canada was the first to respond to the first call.

Second, Canada has been there from the beginning. We have spent about $150 million over the last 10 years. We have also forgiven $447 million for Pakistan to convert its debt to social programs for the country but also to assist Pakistan with the crisis of refugees on the border.

In addition to that, I have just come back from a meeting with the head of the Red Cross in Geneva. We discussed extensively the problems within Afghanistan because the difficulty is getting food inside, not the money. He has assured me that we will be working together to get assistance to the people inside Afghanistan.

Presence in Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of Her Excellency Mona Sahlin, Minister of Industry, Employment and Communications of Sweden.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

I also draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of members of the European Parliament's Delegation for Relations with Canada, led by the Honourable Robert Sturdy.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Further, I wish to report to the House that on October 8, I met in Ottawa with Mr. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States of America.

During this meeting, Speaker Hastert presented me with a book of thanks from his colleagues in the House of Representatives in Washington.

The book containing the messages of thanks from the U.S. House of Representatives to the people of Canada will be available for hon. members to look at.

I invite members to look at this book, which will be on a lectern in the antechamber inside the main entrance off the south corridor.

Privilege

[The Speaker]

I am now ready to rule on the question of privilege raised by the hon. member for Edmonton North on September 27 concerning the alleged unauthorized access to the hon. member's computer files.

I would like to thank the hon. member for bringing this matter to the attention of the House. I would also like to thank the hon. whip of the official opposition for the information he provided on this question.

Let me say at the outset that I was greatly troubled by the hon. member’s allegations. I asked for and have now received a complete report on the circumstances surrounding this case.

If the House will bear with me, I would like to explain the chronology of events in this case so that we can understand what has happened here, identify where things went wrong and take steps to ensure that such errors are not repeated.

I believe the hon. opposition whip put his finger on a central problem in noting what he called “the relative newness of the information age”. In organizing their work members rely on their own staff, the staff of the party to which they are affiliated, and on the staff of the administration of the House of Commons.

Often the details of how work is organized particularly with regard to technology, for example how local area networks operate or how a server is configured, are left in the hands of the staff.

The member's primary concerns are to use the time in Ottawa most efficiently and effectively and to serve the constituency in the best way possible, and the staff is trusted to make the arrangements to make that happen. Ironically it appears to the Chair that it is precisely in trying to meet those concerns that this problem arose.

This saga began in March 2000 when the hon. member for Edmonton North became acting leader of the Canadian Alliance. At that time the information services directorate received a request to move the data from the MP server in the hon. member's office to the Canadian Alliance caucus server.

This was done, that is the hon. member and her assistants were given a special section on the Canadian Alliance CA server under the group title CA leader. The files thus transferred were password protected and so could be said to belong to the hon. member for Edmonton North, being accessible only to her and to her staff.

In September 2000, the hon. member stepped down as acting leader. In the normal course of events, one might have expected that the hon. member’s files--still being resident on the Canadian Alliance server--would have been transferred back to the server in her MP’s office. However, this did not happen.

It is important to note that while the information services directorate operates as a centralized integrated service, members and caucuses enjoy the usual autonomy of clients in how they organize their affairs. Information services is in this regard reactive rather than proactive. Beyond establishing certain standards through recommendations to the Board of Internal Economy, the directorate does not dictate how or where a member or a caucus will organize or store its data. Nor does the directorate point out anomalies or inconsistencies.

Thus it was only in May 2001 that the Canadian Alliance network administrator raised with information services the anomalous presence on the Alliance server of the files of the hon. member for Edmonton North. Information services was informed that consultations with the whip would be undertaken by the Alliance administrator before any specific instructions on the matter would be issued to the directorate. However no such instructions were given to the directorate and all remained as it had been since March 2000.

The situation remained that way until September 20, 2001, when one of the hon. member's assistants requested that information services grant her access to a number of the standard functions, for example electronic forms, available to a member's office usually resident on the MP server. When information services granted the requested functionality the assistant's connectivity to the Alliance server was severed.

On discovering that she could no longer access her files in the usual way, the assistant called the information services help desk. This call gave rise to a number of further telephone exchanges between and among concerned parties, with the final result that the matter was raised here in the Chamber by the hon. member for Edmonton North on the afternoon of September 28.

As I understand it, the competing claims in this situation may be summed up this way. On the one hand, the hon. member for Edmonton North contends that the documents and data she and her assistants stored on the Alliance server in a group named CA leader that was password protected are hers and should be returned to her.

On the other hand, Canadian Alliance officials claimed that the server where the files were resident was the Alliance server; that the files were found in a directory called CA leader, which position the member no longer held; and that the Alliance had a legitimate right to ensure that no caucus documents would be included in the files to be returned to the hon. member for Edmonton North.

Information services, as a matter of policy, takes no action related to files on a server without the express authority of the member or caucus whose server it is.

Thus, information services, faced with these competing claims, determined that it could not adjudicate the dispute and suggested that both sides negotiate a mutually acceptable solution to the impasse.

It is regrettable that a consensual solution between the two sides could not be found. Then, as the opposition whip explains, an Alliance official, having been advised that there was no impediment to his doing so, requested that information services grant him access to the disputed files. On the request of his whip the officer proposed to review and make a determination on the appropriate disposition of the files.

Information services had also been advised that if a request were made by the Alliance for access to files held on the Alliance server, such a request could not be refused. As a result of this advice information services, acceding to his request, granted read only access to the Alliance official.

It is here that the Chair finds cause for disquiet for I must conclude that the parties have not been well served by the advice they received.

I refer the House to a decision by Mr. Speaker Fraser on February 9, 1988. I quote from pages 12761 to 12762 of Debates where he said in a case similar to this one:

I am satisfied that what has occurred in this case was done innocently. However, the point made by the hon. member for Thunder Bay--Atikokan that electronic information should be treated no differently from “hard copy” material is well taken.

This error may well have been an honest mistake but the fact remains that the action taken in good faith as a consequence of that error can be viewed as potentially damaging to the hon. member's ability to represent her constituents.

It is true that the data on the Canadian Alliance server might in the ordinary scheme of things be considered to be under the unquestioned control of the Canadian Alliance, but this is not an ordinary situation. I would liken it to a person with a locked suitcase stored in the locked trunk of someone else's car.

Can the owner of the car, asked to surrender the suitcase, unlock the trunk, retrieve the suitcase and ask a locksmith to unlock the suitcase so its contents could be examined before the suitcase is returned?

This analogy may seem somewhat oversimplified, but I believe it can be helpful in finding a way through the technological labyrinth that is unfamiliar territory to many of us. The files of the hon. member for Edmonton North were in her own private compartment on the server in a form accessible only to her. I am therefore directing that the remaining disputed files that are still being held on the Alliance server be returned forthwith to the hon. member for Edmonton North.

Further, I have directed information services to establish new protocols to ensure that files and data belonging to an MP are, even in the case of caucus officers, kept as originally planned on MPs servers and not on caucus servers.

There is little doubt that the case before us features many unique ancillary factors that have complicated what might have been a more straightforward situation. The Chair believes that all members involved in trying to resolve this situation have acted honourably.

I also believe that staff both in the members' offices and in information services, acting on the direction of hon. members, have carried out their duties responsibly. I trust that the remedial steps I am directing to be taken immediately will resolve this particular case and will ensure that this kind of situation is not encountered again by any hon. member or caucus. I trust this settles the matter and I thank hon. members for their attention.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege with regard to Bill C-36 which was tabled earlier today. Bill C-36 was drafted to address security issues facing Canadians as a result of the attack on the United States on September 11. It is particularly unfortunate that the security of the very bill designed to protect the security of Canadians has been breached.

On the weekend the National Post reported the contents of Bill C-36 and indicated that it was briefed by officials from the Department of Justice. The article published on October 13 entitled “New Bill to Pin Down Terrorism” described the bill in detail and quoted officials from the department. For example, the article declared:

One official described the list of terrorist groups as an “evergreen document that can be updated fairly regularly” with names being added or deleted as circumstances change.

This official is quoted extensively throughout the article. I do not know of any member of the opposition who has been given this type of briefing prior to today. Two of my members who were at the briefing said they could have got all they wanted out of the National Post .

Even if a member had received such a briefing, I draw attention to the case of Bill C-15. As you are aware, the Minister of Justice and her department have been down this road before. As you are also aware in the case of Bill C-15, the House was very lenient toward the minister considering the severity of this type of disrespect for the role of the House of Commons and its members.

On March 15 the Speaker ruled on the question of privilege of the member for Provencher regarding an incident whereby the media were briefed before members of parliament on Bill C-15. The Speaker indicated there were two important issues in the case: the matter of the embargoed briefing to the media and the issue of the access of members to information required to fulfill their duties. In your ruling you said:

In preparing legislation, the government may wish to hold extensive consultations and such consultations may be held entirely at the government's discretion. However, with respect to material to be placed before parliament, the House must take precedence. The convention of the confidentiality of bills on notice is necessary, not only so that members themselves may be well informed, but also because of the pre-eminent rule which the House plays and must play in the legislative affairs of the nation. To deny to members information concerning business that is about to come before the House, while at the same time providing such information to media that will likely be questioning members about that business, is a situation that the Chair cannot condone. In this case it is clear that information concerning legislation, although denied to members, was given to members of the media without any effective measures to secure the rights of the House. I have concluded that this constitutes a prima facie contempt of the House.

This matter was referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee concluded:

--the protocol of the Department of Justice whereby no briefings or briefing material should be provided with respect to a bill on notice until its introduction in the House of Commons should be adopted as a standard policy by all government departments. We believe that such a policy is respectful of the House of Commons and its members. It recognizes the legislative role of parliament, and is consistent with parliamentary privilege and conventions of parliament.

The committee noted that the adoption of such a policy should not be viewed as preventing the provisions of courtesy copies of government bills on a confidential basis to opposition critics shortly before their introduction. The committee went on to say:

--this incident highlights a concern shared by all members of the committee: apparent departmental ignorance of or disrespect for the role of the House of Commons and its members. Even if the result is unintended, the House should not tolerate such ignorance within the government administration to undermine the perception of parliament's constitutional role in legislating. The rights of the House and its members in this role are central to our constitutional and democratic government.

The committee heeded this warning:

Failure to adopt appropriate measures could lead to a reoccurrence of this problem in which case the House would have to consider using its power in a more severe way. The acceptance of an apology will not necessarily be considered a sufficient response.

With respect to Bill C-36 it is clear that members of the media were told of the contents of the bill on the weekend ahead of members and before its introduction in the House.

It is also clear that no effective measures to secure the rights of the House and its members were put in place. Like Bill C-15, the minister and her officials have shown contempt for the House. If you rule this to be a prima facie question of privilege I am prepared to move the appropriate motion.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with many of the things that the hon. member has just said. I do not agree with all of them, and I will discuss some of the differences between this issue and that of Bill C-15. However I agree with many of the underlying themes and I would invite the hon. member to allow me to explain.

There were administrative errors made with Bill C-15. I will not say that there were no errors in judgment made by whoever committed the act of deliberately or negligently giving information to the media before the House. Whoever did this did not have my approval or the approval of any minister on this side of the House. What was done was wrong.

The difference between this and Bill C-15 is the following. People with good intentions saw fit to provide a briefing to the media while neglecting to make the same offer to members of parliament and, even worse, gave the information under embargo without taking the precaution of having a lock up so that members of the media could leave the environment in which the briefing had been given.

They then proceeded to breach the embargo which had been made available to them and proceeded to interview members of parliament who had not received the information. That is a very big difference. This does not take away from the gravity of what the hon. member has just said, but it is not analogous to the other situation.

Measures were put in place since Bill C-15. The hon. member has correctly referred to the work of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. I congratulate the committee and all its members for their work.

Measures were taken and a cabinet directive was issued. Summaries of the cabinet directive were made public. It gave instructions to public servants and others that when briefings were given to the media they had to be given in a lock up environment and in virtually all cases they had to be made available to members of parliament.

This morning I personally organized a briefing for members of parliament. Therefore I know it was held. As is the case, members of parliament were permitted to leave the briefing before the introduction of the bill. However staff members could not leave. They were in lock up until the introduction of the bill. On that issue I personally took all precautionary measures available to me.

Last Friday afternoon I received a copy of Bill C-36. As is my role as Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, I do what is known as a review of the bill. I took precautions then and earlier with the minister and all of her staff to ensure that the bill was not in any way given to the media or otherwise. I was given that assurance by everyone I spoke to.

On Saturday I saw extracts from the bill in the media. They were not all factually correct but enough of them were that it caused me to be as concerned as the hon. member when raising this question in the House.

I cannot say much more other than to apologize on behalf of whoever is guilty of this. I use the word guilty because that is what comes to mind, given the respect that I have for this institution. Anyone who breaches that respect is guilty of an offence in my book. The problem is that we do not know who it is.

Notwithstanding what occurred I take this opportunity to congratulate all House leaders, regardless of the offence which occurred, for the courtesies that were given to me, to the Minister of Justice and to the government this morning for the purpose of the introduction of the bill. The gesture was even more courteous, given what occurred presumably between Friday and Saturday. I am afraid I have no other remedy than another apology on behalf of whoever the culprit is that committed this.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, after listening to the government House leader there is certainly little to say in the way that would be critical of the government House leader. He should recognize, however, that this is getting to be a bit on the boring side, having to stand in our place time and time again to complain about various ways in which the House is held in contempt either by the government, which in this case it is debatable, or some individual in the minister's department who was “speaking on background” and was prepared to divulge the nature of the legislation to the media before it was divulged to the House.

However we have a pattern here both in terms of the details of legislation being revealed to the media before it is revealed to the House and other things which are not relevant to any point of order. Yet it is relevant to the ongoing contempt of parliament that is shown by the government such as the Prime Minister making announcements at Liberal fundraising dinners, et cetera.

That is not relevant to this point of order, but it is part of a larger pattern that all members of parliament should be concerned about. I hope the government House leader or you, Mr. Speaker, would undertake to find out who did this, who briefed the media.

The article said that it was a senior official speaking on background. This was not a leak. This was a deliberate act by a senior official. Some senior official of the government showed contempt for the House by briefing the National Post . It was done in a way that showed contempt for the decisions that you have made in the past with regard to the respect that should be shown to the House in these kinds of matters.

I ask that you use whatever powers that are available to you to determine who did this and perhaps bring that person before the bar of the House to explain the contempt of this Chamber.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I take note of the apologies of the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons but, again, it is not the first time that this has happened. Perhaps this is not exactly what happened with Bill C-15, but it did occur with this bill.

I can also think of the Young Offenders Act. This is often forgotten, but the media had been informed. Large parts of the young offenders legislation were published in the newspapers before the opposition had even dealt with it.

Today, it is Bill C-36. It is as if whenever a bill could generate controversy, an attempt is made to inform or provide information during the weekend, when members are in their ridings. The result is that the newspapers make mention of the major points of these bills and the public begins to form an opinion on an issue before parliamentarians deal with this issue.

I know that the House leader is sincere. I take note of his remarks and apologies, but this is not enough.

Will the House leader ensure that there are clear rules for his ministers, for cabinet, to prevent such leaks, so that the media do not get information before the members of this House have had an opportunity to deal with it?

This is the first thing that the House leader should do. Will there be clear rules to ensure that this never happens again? Second, who is the smart aleck who gave that information, it is not the secretary who typed this, but someone who had access to privileged information? Will that person be disciplined for what he or she has done? This is a serious attack on the work of parliamentarians. The public official who did this has no respect for the work of parliamentarians in this House.

I would like the House leader to rise and to tell us very clearly what he intends to do to find the guilty party and provide all cabinet members with very clear rules so that this never happens again.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I attach myself to many of the remarks that have been previously made. I share the indignation of the government House leader that this has once again burdened the House with this ongoing saga of information being released in advance of members of the House being given the opportunity of due respect that they deserve in reviewing legislation, particularly legislation of such great importance.

I think the House leader for the official opposition stated that there is a great deal of irony in the fact that this information deals with secrecy and security, yet the government is still unable with all of its resources and powers of persuasion to prevent this from happening.

I take the government House leader at his word that he will go back to cabinet and once again reiterate the importance to the ministers themselves, to the deputy ministers and to their staffs associated with those offices that this information is to be held privileged until such time as members of the House of Commons are given the opportunity to review it.

I also would look further for some form of an undertaking that the minister will himself look into this particular matter and see if he can ascertain the source. It was a senior official. I do not know what powers of investigation he has at his disposal, but we would hope that he would try to suss out the individual, the culprit who was involved in the leaking of this information.

Finally, we hope that there will be a strong admonition from the Chair itself expressing the concern and the outrage that the House and the Chamber has for this type of leak because there is a pattern. This is not the first time. We have seen time and time again information being sent out to journalists in advance of this place. Surely the lust of journalists to have this type of juicy information should not outweigh the necessity and indeed the respect that should be held for the Chamber to in the first instance have an opportunity to see, digest and debate this type of legislation.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, colleagues have been very patient and I thank them. They have asked that I respond, which I would like to do now.

I believe the House leader for the Conservatives referred to this as privileged information. Actually it is more than that. It is secret, secret in the very sense of government secrecy. The hon. member will know to what I am referring.

This is not only a breach of our rules in parliament, it is a breach of government security in addition to that. It is wrong twice, if I can refer to it that way, just to strengthen what the opposition House leader said.

There is no doubt that in all of this, much information had previously been made public. For instance, in my statement to the House some days ago I referred to some of the main components of what the bill would have, not nearly to the degree that we find them in this newspaper article obviously. It is also true that the Minister of Justice, the Prime Minister and others have referred to in speeches of what the new legislation would contain.

I will not use that as a defence either because I know this article goes beyond that as well. Still I want to state it because these things should be known by people generally.

I have been asked if I would make a commitment that the rules would be clear. In fact, the rules are clear. A lack of clarity in the rules is not the problem, it is compliance with these rules or sticking to them, if you will. As far as the rules are concerned, it is already secret. That is clear. Everyone takes an oath of office and so on. That is clear.

Second, on rules for information sessions, briefings as they are called, where there was a problem—and this is not what happened today—the rules were also clarified. As to the measures I myself can take to investigate, members will acknowledge that I do not have a lot of resources in this regard. I can assure members that cabinet is aware of what has just been said in the House and will act on it. I will do everything in my power—and I am sure my colleagues will do likewise—to prevent the recurrence of such things.

In closing, I reiterate to the House that I regret this incident. I will not say what I would do if I had the guilty party by the neck.

[The Speaker]

The Chair is prepared to make a ruling on the matter now before the House. I wish to thank the hon. House Leader of the official opposition, the hon. member for Berthier--Montcalm, the hon. government House leader, the hon. member for Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough and the hon. member for Winnipeg--Transcona for their opinions on this matter.

I have to say at once this appears to be similar to the issue raised earlier before me with respect to Bill C-15. In my opinion it appears that there has been again a breach of the privileges of the House in relation to this piece of legislation.

The hon. member for Winnipeg--Transcona in his remarks tried to assist the Chair by suggesting that it was for the Chair to investigate the matter and come up with the name of the culprit and so on. I respect his opinion of course in all matters, but in this matter I think his view is perhaps wrong. There is a body that is well equipped to commit acts of inquisition, and that is the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, which has a fearsome chairman, quite able to extract information from witnesses who appear before the committee, with the aid of the capable members who form that committee of the House.

Accordingly, in my view this is a matter which ought to be sent to the committee. I am sure the hon. House leader of the official opposition will want to move a motion, which the Chair is prepared to entertain at this time, as a motion following upon a breach of the privileges of the House.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

moved:

That the matter of the media receiving information on the contents of Bill C-36 before members of parliament and before the bill is tabled in the House of Commons be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

(Motion agreed to)

Points of Order

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a separate point of order. It came to the attention of members of the House during question period and some further information has been elicited with respect to the foreign substance that was found within the precinct of parliament.

You as custodian of this place, Mr. Speaker, I am sure share the concerns of members of parliament, staff, personnel and members of the public who are on the Hill.

There is still a sense, and I choose my words carefully not to sound alarmist, of panic among many as to what steps are being taken. There are ambulances outside the Chamber now. One staff member has been evacuated to be cautious. There is a need for information as to the closure of the post office and whether there will be further closures of offices on the Hill.

There is a need to know if there is a contingency or emergency security plan for other buildings outside the precinct of parliament. There is an urgent need, I would stress, that some information be shared with the Chamber. I would strongly urge the Chair or the government House leader to be forthcoming with that information as soon as possible.

[The Speaker]

The Chair was advised of the incident to which the hon. member refers during question period. I have been monitoring the situation very carefully. I believe all steps, which are appropriate to be taken in accordance with established protocols for this kind of emergency, are being taken at the present time.

I am unable to report to the House at this stage about the nature of the problem in terms of exactly what substance may or may not have been in a package which apparently was opened.

I assure the hon. member that perhaps when we have further information it will be communicated to hon. members through their whips or through some other method. I am personally monitoring the situation very carefully and will continue to do so in the course of the day. I thank the hon. member for raising the matter.