Debates of Oct. 18th, 2001

Anti-Terrorism Legislation

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, increasingly, people, including a number of her Liberal colleagues, are encouraging the minister to be prudent. Even the member for Mount Royal, her colleague, sees a need for temporary legislation.

What I want is a political commitment from the minister. Could she tell us honestly today just why she is refusing to promise in this House to reassure the public by including a sunset clause in the bill with respect to certain articles.

I want her to make a commitment before the House.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

As I have said, Mr. Speaker, the government believes that the three year review period is the appropriate mechanism of protection. We considered this issue very carefully.

Having said that, I am the first to acknowledge that there are views being expressed by members on all sides of the House as to whether that is in all cases the appropriate protective mechanism.

I think the committee is the place to have that discussion. I know the government looks forward to hearing the advice of the committee this afternoon.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Justice a question, but as she said she will be in committee later, so my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. It has to do with Canada's participation in the military coalition against the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

What are the foreseeable goals of the coalition and, if the goals change or if they go beyond what I have just described, is it the intention of the government to argue for a more explicit UN approval of any expansion of the campaign in which the Canadian forces are now involved?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the question relates to the responsibility of the Minister of National Defence, but let me say that we have entered into this coalition to support the purpose of attacking the roots of terrorism which have been exposed as a result of the attacks of September 11, that being Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda network. That is the purpose of our engagement in the effort being led by the United States, and it is under the authorization of existing United Nations Security Council resolutions and that will be the foundation for proceeding.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that if the action is expanded that might be grounds for further consultation with the UN. However, I would like to ask the Minister of Foreign Affairs this.

I am sure he shares the distress that all of us feel on this side that the window for peace in the Middle East that was there last week, we talk of a Palestinian state, has now been eclipsed by renewed violence and assassination in that area of the world.

Could he tell the House what the message of Canada is to the parties to that conflict and what the government will do to be of help in that very difficult situation?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very important question. I think we all look to the region as being a key to the efforts as well that are going on to resist terrorism.

We of course have expressed our concern and our sympathy to the government of Israel as a result of the assassination which occurred yesterday. We are calling on the parties, both the Israeli and the Palestinian authority, to show restraint at this critical time. We are asking that the discussions, which were showing some promise and which were being undertaken by the two sides, be allowed to proceed.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have some precise questions to the minister responsible for critical infrastructure protection and emergency preparedness.

Could the minister tell the House if the government has a current and up to date list of all critical infrastructure facilities in Canada; federal, provincial and municipal? That includes energy systems, water utilities, communications systems, health care facilities and transportation corridors that might attract the interest of terrorists. When was the list compiled and, if it is not yet complete, when will it be completed?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, it is well on its way to being completed. The Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness was established earlier this year. It has been assembling this information, among its many other duties, and most of that information has already been gathered.

There have been many discussions with the operators and owners of much of this critical infrastructure to make sure that everything possible is being done to ensure its security and its protection. The complete list should be happening soon.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, well on its way to being completed weeks after the attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C.

Could the acting prime minister tell the House if the intelligence assessments of threats to critical infrastructure facilities, including possible terrorist attacks on offshore gas platforms, pipelines, nuclear plants, water supplies or other vital infrastructures, have been made available to the premiers of the provinces in whose jurisdictions these facilities lie?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, in fact most of the list was gathered at the time of the Y2K events and the concerns that existed then. However it is being updated now and, particularly in light of September 11, a fresh look is being taken to ensure that all the security measures that are necessary are in place.

Yes, consultations are going on with the provinces, the municipalities and private sector people. Various advice and warnings have been given about ensuring that safety and protection measures are taken. I can assure the hon. member that is all in hand.

Immigration

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration's stay the course plan, despite how the system is known to fail national security, is the ultimate Liberal denial of reality. In fact she cannot even give a number of how many have been detained.

The world is a lot more dangerous place than the Liberals are able to admit. Will the minister stop the defence of public relations exercise, get real and raise standards before raising quotas?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the new immigration and refugee protection act is a complete overhaul of immigration and protection systems in the country. For the member's information, in the year 2000-01, 8,836 individuals were detained in Canada.

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the issue is safety not political correctness and systems. Canadian Alliance members are pro immigration and we believe Canada should accept its fair share of refugees, but since September 11 not much has changed at the borders. Both the head of CSIS and the RCMP commissioner told me that today in committee.

If the minister has not delivered proper security by now, what will it take? Will it take a new minister or perhaps a new government?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I want to be really clear. The government will never allow terrorism to prevent us from continuing to build Canada through immigration as we have in the past. On the question of refugees, we are proud of our humanitarian reputation, and we will continue to welcome those in genuine need of our protection.

Very often people who are fleeing persecution leave without any identification. They are fleeing for their lives. They come to us and we help them and welcome them. They are the overwhelming majority of people who come to Canada and make refugee claims. The member opposite should not give the impression that it is otherwise.

Anti-terrorism Legislation

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Justice informed us that Bill C-36 was carefully drafted to exclude lawful protests from the definition of terrorist activities.

Will the minister confirm whether or not she considers spontaneous demonstrations that have not obtained an advance permit from the appropriate authorities lawful protests?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure I understand the hon. member's question. I think I was very plain yesterday that the definition of terrorist activity has been drafted carefully to exclude lawful protest activity. That includes examples of lawful advocacy, dissent, strikes and a wide range of other lawful protest activities.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the definitions in the criminal code are sufficient to judge reprehensible acts that might be committed by overzealous demonstrators.

Will the minister acknowledge that the definition contained in the bill will make it difficult to distinguish between a mere demonstrator and a real terrorist?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the definition in the new act does not make it difficult. As I said yesterday, the definition in the anti-terrorism legislation speaks to activities in which the motivation is the instilling of terror. Lesser forms of violent protest will be dealt with by the criminal code.

Immigration

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote from a former Canadian ambassador, who said:

Bill C-11 will make it easier for asylum seekers to enter Canada and much more difficult to remove them after they get in. In normal circumstances, this failure would be deplorable. After September 11th, refusal to implement immediate reform of our system borders on criminal irresponsibility.

Will the minister accept responsibility for this bill which threatens the integrity of our immigration system?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member sat through the hearings at committee. On no occasion did she suggest the bill was not tough enough. In fact everything we heard from that party and that member was that Bill C-11 was too tough.

It is a tough bill. It is a complete overhaul of the immigration and refugee determination system. It will allow us to be faster, while we continue to be fair to those who come to us and ask for protection. I reject absolutely the characterization that the member has put on the record.

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the former ambassador said:

Bill C-11 is a disaster. It plays into the hands of professional smugglers. It leaves Canada wide open for easy entry of undesirables. It seems designed to ensure that the bad buys can never be sent home.

We agree.

When will the minister admit that her legislation is out of step with reality?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, in fact Bill C-11 gives us the tools that we need to be able to tell those who are inadmissible to Canada that they will have to leave Canada more quickly. It gives us the ability to do that.

We received the additional resources to implement the bill. The member knows full well that what she has said is false. Bill C-11 is a complete overhaul. It will do the job for Canadians.

The Economy

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister's stubbornness makes him the only one to not recognize the need for tabling a budget in the coming days, since even economists, including Clément Gignac from the National Bank, are asking him to do so, as has the Bloc Quebecois for several weeks.

Will the Minister of Finance finally bow to our arguments and present budget measures to counter the economic slowdown?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I already told the hon. member many times that I am very open to a budget, but that we will need the necessary data on the short term thrust of the economy, on the global initiative against terrorism and on the overall plan of the Canadian government concerning national security.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, should the Minister of Finance not follow the example of the Minister of Industry, who is taking action?

Yesterday, the president of the Quebec Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants asked the federal government to take quick budget measures, including an employment insurance premium holiday and the postponing of instalment payments by businesses for six months.

Will the minister recognize that these measures, which are proposed in the Bloc Quebecois' five billion dollar plan, are valid and that he has the means to implement them, like just about everyone is asking him to do now?