Debates of Oct. 5th, 2001

Terrorism

[Chuck Strahl, Canadian Alliance, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Solicitor General of Canada said that CSIS has the ability to collect intelligence outside of Canada but the truth comes from the foreign affairs minister who said that there is a glaring deficiency in that department.

The defence minister said that the armed forces is up to the job of protecting Canada but the truth comes from the foreign affairs minister who said that Canada has inadequate defence capabilities.

The Prime Minister said that Tony Blair is fearmongering but the foreign affairs minister thinks the British prime minister's performance was great.

I agree with the foreign affairs minister on each of these points. Why is he the only minister over there who seems to face reality when it comes to fighting terrorism?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am always willing to take support where I can find it but I wish he had understood what I had said. I know he does change sides frequently though.

I think Canada's record speaks for itself. We have punched above our weight in the world for many years but the challenges we face now are challenges that are different from those we faced on September 10.

It is important for all of us in the House to consider carefully what the implications will be in that area and then we will see how we can build on the wonderful reputation we have achieved in the world.

[Chuck Strahl, Canadian Alliance, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to terrorism the best defence is a good offence.

Richard Fadden, the deputy clerk and co-ordinator for security intelligence at the Privy Council office in Ottawa said that we need to develop the necessary tools to protect Canadians, whether here at home or abroad and suggested that it is time to consider creating a foreign spy agency. In other words, a good offence against terrorism requires an effective intelligence gathering agency.

If the most senior civil servants understand the need to combat terrorism abroad, and if the foreign affairs minister understands the need to start pulling our weight in this area, why has the solicitor general not moved quickly to establish the foreign spy agency?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we are all aware that the world has changed since September 11. That means that security demands and security and intelligence has changed.

We have not ruled anything out but it is important for all members to understand that CSIS does operate abroad. CSIS investigates threats to Canada's security inside and outside of the country.

Health

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Health Canada officials are frustrated and in the dark because they do not have the information on how to tell Canadians how they can protect themselves in the event of a bioterrorism attack.

Would the Minister of Health table in the House today his plan on how Canadians can protect themselves in the event of a bioterrorism attack?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians can be assured, as I told the House the other day, that Health Canada is working closely with other members of the government and with provincial partners to anticipate and prepare for whatever might occur.

The events of September 11 have made it clear that governments have to start thinking what was unimaginable in the past. That means anticipating everything from chemical, biological and other kinds of catastrophes.

Over two years ago we opened the centre for preparedness at Health Canada. We are building expertise and broadening networks to make Canada ready. We are engaged in that work now.

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that Canadians and members of the minister's own department are not reassured. They are scared and frustrated because they have not seen a plan from the minister.

Silence breeds fear. I have another question for the minister. Back in March 2000 Health Canada was warned of a possible bioterrorism attack. The U.S. department of health has allotted a quarter of a billion dollars for that eventuality.

Will the minister tell the House how much money he is prepared to spend to let Canadians know what they can do in the event of a bioterrorism attack?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member that Health Canada along with every line department of the government is reassessing their capacity to respond in the public interest as a result of the events of September 11.

I can also tell the member that when we have looked critically and realistically at what we need and what we have to do, the government will do it.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a report by journalist Normand Lester, on Radio-Canada, revealed that an informant working for CSIS, who had a mandate to infiltrate the fundamentalist networks in Montreal, was in fact the spokesperson for an organization advocating the use of violence and terrorism.

How does the solicitor general explain that the informer, Youssef Mouammar, remains in the employ of CSIS, despite the concern expressed by the review committee in its 1997-98 annual report?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, what CSIS does is investigate information of threats against the country. When they obtain the information they inform the RCMP or appropriate police forces so appropriate action can be taken. That is what they have done and that is what they will continue to do.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the solicitor general tell us whether the Government of Canada is still protecting Gilles Breault, alias Youssef Mouammar, instead of laying charges?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague is well aware, I do not disclose matters of security intelligence from CSIS or the RCMP. My hon. colleague should know that is important for the security of the nation.

I am surprised a former prime minister does not know we have to do that for the security of Canada.

National Defence

[Leon Benoit, Canadian Alliance, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the first duty of government is the protection of the citizens. It is common knowledge that terrorists are seeking to acquire the capability to release biological or chemical weapons.

My question is for the defence minister. Is there an operational unit trained specifically in chemical and biological warfare ready and equipped to be deployed to protect Canadians, yes or no?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Yes, Mr. Speaker, there is a unit called the nuclear, biological, chemical response team which is located in Borden, one of our bases. It works with the RCMP as well in providing those kind of capabilities.

Also the Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness and the resources that entity brings to bear on any disaster or emergency that may occur in this country are an important part of helping to ensure the safety and security of Canadians.

[Leon Benoit, Canadian Alliance, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the training unit in Borden. I have been there, seen it and know what it is. I am aware of what is ready in emergency preparedness Canada. The fact is these are not operational units. They are not units ready to be deployed to protect Canadians.

I ask the minister again to explain where the operational unit is so that Canadians can be reassured that there is some protection in the case of a biological or chemical attack.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the member does not seem to understand that the Canadian Forces, whether they are in that unit or any other unit, are there for the people of Canada. They are there to protect Canadians. If they are called upon they will respond to it.

Fisheries and Oceans

[Tony Tirabassi, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans continues to pursue a long term strategy for the Petitcodiac River causeway in New Brunswick.

Could the minister report to the House on the progress of discussions with the province of New Brunswick regarding a proposed environmental assessment of options to resolve the fish passage problem at the Petitcodiac River causeway?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada has been working very closely with the New Brunswick government. Just this week I met with Minister Jardine, the minister of the environment, and I was happy to announce that the Government of Canada will be spending up to $2 million to have an environmental assessment jointly with the government of New Brunswick.

This is good news for the Petitcodiac causeway and for the river. It shows the two governments how they can work together.

Now we need the provincial government to be a proponent of the project, register it so we can move forward quickly on a problem that has been there for 30 years, do a full environmental assessment and move forward to protect that river.

Immigration

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the Immigration Act gives the government the power to declare any country as a safe third country when it comes to assessing refugees.

The European Union considers all of its member states to be safe third countries so refugee claimants cannot hop from one jurisdiction to another.

Why does the government not use its power under the act and declare that it will not accept any refugees from the United States or the European Union?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I will try once again to explain so that the member and all members will understand that while the authority is in both the existing Immigration Act and the new Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to negotiate bilateral agreements with other countries, a safe third agreement, it requires the agreement of the other country. It is not the sort of thing that any country can or should do unilaterally.

The member refers to the European experience. It was an agreement among all European states and there are some that do not think it is working very well at all.

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we have had eight years to negotiate bilateral agreements. We signed a memorandum with the U.S. six years ago but we have not concluded a single bilateral agreement.

The climate has changed since September 11. Will the minister get on with negotiating a bilateral agreement with the U.S. on an urgent basis or use her power to declare the U.S. and the EU as safe third countries?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, let me repeat again. No country can unilaterally make the declaration that the member opposite is asking for.

We have over the past attempted to negotiate an agreement with the United States. Over 40% of all the refugee claimants in Canada come to Canada from the United States and, for obvious reasons, the United States has been reluctant to agree to such an agreement.

I also believe that since September 11 this has not been the highest priority for the United States or, frankly, for Canada. We are looking at taking efforts that will protect all of our citizens following those terrible events.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has just said that CSIS informed the RCMP. If this is true, how does the solicitor general explain that the RCMP arrested Mr. Mouammar and then released him without charging him when they learned he was a CSIS informer?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of allegations being made here and I would evaluate the situation. If my hon. colleague is asking me why a certain action was taken by a certain police force on information, I think he is fully aware that it would be inappropriate for me to indicate that publicly.

However I will look into the situation for my hon. colleague.

Labour

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour. Could he tells us what his department is doing to commemorate the national fire prevention week?