Debates of Nov. 8th, 2001

Saskatoon--Humboldt

[Jim Pankiw, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to highlight the accomplishments of some extraordinary youth in the riding of Saskatoon--Humboldt. Rachel McCormick is in Ottawa today and is one of 11 finalists for the “If I were Prime Minister” award given out by the Magna for Canada scholarship fund. We offer Rachel our congratulations.

Next week 11 year Graham Epp of St. Phillips Elementary School will be receiving the Governor General's medal for meritorious conduct. Three years ago Graham saved the life of his father who lost consciousness in a swimming pool and nearly drowned. Graham showed maturity beyond his years when he took quick and decisive action to save the life of his dad.

I also wish to acknowledge the birth of Sebastian Otto Bundrock who came into the world on October 30 weighing in at 9 pounds, 13 ounces. Sebastian's mother Tiina and father Patrick, who is also my executive assistant, are proud new parents. On behalf of parliament I extend them sincere and heartfelt congratulations.

Deputy Prime Minister

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are many milestones and successes that we achieve in life. I rise to pay tribute to one of our own, the hon. member for Windsor West.

Since his first election on June 18, 1962, our Deputy Prime Minister has had a long and distinguished career on Parliament Hill. He has been consistently re-elected 12 times since due to his dedication and commitment to his constituents in the city of Windsor.

Today he finds another place in the history books of our country for today he surpasses the historical record of unbroken service in the House of Commons held by the right hon. John Diefenbaker of 14,388 days.

On behalf of my colleagues and all Canadians I congratulate and thank our Deputy Prime Minister for 14,389 days of unbroken, dedicated service to the people of Canada. We wish him continued success in his work on Parliament Hill.

[The Speaker]

I am sure all hon. members are looking forward to some answers from the Deputy Prime Minister during question period.

National Defence

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, not wanting to take the bloom off that rose, I have to pose a question about government priorities.

We believe the government can stay out of deficit if it focuses and takes the low priority and wasteful spending and moves it to high priority spending. However we have just learned that the government has indicated there is only about $1 billion being set aside in the new budget for safety, security and national defence.

The auditor general and the defence committee have said that $1 billion was needed before September 11 just to fulfill the maintenance standards required in national defence. Why does the government have such a problem with priority spending like safety, security and national defence, but seems to have no problem rushing to waste money in billion dollar boondoggles?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has forgotten the some $280 million that we allocated just in the past few weeks, since September 11, to additional measures to strengthen our security.

With respect to the other part of his question, I think that he is just speculating. We will have a wonderful budget from the Minister of Finance in a few weeks. In that budget he will see that we are responding to the priorities of Canadians. I do not think he should depend on speculation before the budget is given.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

We will wait and see, Mr. Speaker.

Even Liberal members recognize that the government is not doing enough when it comes time to investing in our defence.

The report of the Standing Committee on National Defence, tabled yesterday, states that Canada wants, and I quote “--to be seen...We have also developed a reputation of not wanting to pay for the associated prestige or for the privilege of offering counsel.”

Will the government use the upcoming budget as an opportunity to finally invest sufficiently in our Canadian forces?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the hon. Leader of the Opposition seems to have a problem with his memory. He forgot that we provided $3 billion more in appropriations for the Department of National Defence over the last three years.

Furthermore, we will respond in detail to the committee report, in due course, but I must confirm our support for defence as a priority.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is his recollection that needs some help here. The Liberal government has reduced armed forces spending significantly since 1993 and has not made it up yet.

We are hearing there is approximately $3 billion being added to the budget, yet it seems that twice the amount of money will go to Liberal pet projects than to national defence and security.

Will the government make a commitment today that in this new budget there will be at least $2 billion for our national defence?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has had the opportunity in the prebudget debate to make his views known. The government will be bringing down the budget very soon, at which point all things will be revealed to him.

I wonder if I might just say one thing. When I was a very young fellow, my father took me out in an election campaign and brought along a young member, who was running for the first time, to knock on doors. He said to this young person “If you learn these lessons well you will be around a long time”. I am delighted to say that my father was right and the member has been around for a great long time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, among the recommendations of the defence committee was a call to reconstitute a special service force within our military consisting of up to 1,000 specially trained troops. Canada once had such a force of highly trained troops. It was called the Canadian Airborne Regiment. The government disbanded the airborne and now its own MPs are calling for its return.

Will the government put in place a new special service regiment with 1,000 troops?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has misread the report, if that is her conclusion.

The Canadian Airborne Regiment is no more and it will be no more. We do have a JTF2. We have all the capabilities that were once in the airborne in other parts of the Canadian forces. The JTF2 continues to provide a very valuable service for Canadians, and it will in the conflict in Afghanistan.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the government's own MPs have called for a special service force to be put into place. Defence experts tell us it is needed. Will the minister admit now that it was wrong to disband the airborne?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should have listened to the statement of a key member of the committee, a Liberal member, during the statement period when he said that the press report with regard to the special service force was wrong.

More important, to show the real thinking of the Alliance members on defence matters, they are speaking now in support of a report to which they formally objected. They formally dissented to it when it came up for a vote. When it came time to show where they stood, they were not there.

Terrorism

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Afghan children are jumping on the charges from the cluster bombs. They are dying as a result, and the Prime Minister washes his hands saying that the U.S. is dropping these bombs, not Canada.

However, in joining the coalition against terrorism, the Prime Minister said he was not handing a blank cheque over to anyone.

As Canada is supposed to have its say in the coalition, will the Prime Minister intervene and call on the Americans to stop dropping cluster bombs on Afghanistan?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this has been asked every day and every day the answer is the same. These cluster bombs are aimed at military installations and military personnel. They are not aimed at civilians. There is no intention to hurt the people of Afghanistan. Unfortunately there are accidents, but every effort is being made to reduce those accidents and to continue only to target military personnel and military equipment of the Taliban and of al-Qaeda.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the same applies to anti-personnel mines. This was Canada's argument in its fight against the mines.

Yesterday, I asked the Prime Minister if he would say this to the Americans. His answer was that, even if we told the Americans, it would serve no purpose, because it is too late, and the Americans would not listen to us.

In the face of such avowed weakness, what confidence can we have in the Prime Minister when he claims to have defended our interests in discussions with President Bush? This is valid for everything, not just cluster bombs, but border security and softwood lumber as well.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, a cluster bomb is quite different from an anti-personnel landmine. An anti-personnel landmine is something that is put in the ground and is something by which future generations can be threatened. We are absolutely opposed to those.

Cluster bombs are not the same thing at all. They are allowed by the legal conventions with respect to the use of weaponry, as long as they are targeted at military installations, and that is exactly what is happening.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister justified his silence regarding cluster bombs by saying that he has little influence over President Bush.

This is in sharp contrast with his previous stand, when he stated that he would not give a blank cheque. In fact, his attitude is increasingly reflective of a fait accompli and this does not bode well.

Are we to understand that the government intends to adopt the same passive attitude following the comments made yesterday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who announced the United States' intention to turn its attention to Iraq?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is a full-fledged member of the coalition against terrorism, a coalition that is targeting the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Our position remains the same. If requests are made to broaden the work of the coalition, we will review them with the interests of our country in mind.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is what we call a passive attitude.

Canada has said that it would oppose any escalation of the conflict. Now that U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell has sent clear signals that the Americans may extend their military intervention to Iraq, will the government express its disagreement, before we are engaged in an escalation we do not want?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first, I must verify the premise of the hon. member's question, and I must check what U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell is alleged to have said.

But, as I said, Canada is a member of the coalition in the fight against terrorism, a fight that remains confined, in Afghanistan, to al-Qaeda and the Taliban. We will continue our active policy in this area.

Airline Industry

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport. I am told that Canada 3000 has just filed for bankruptcy protection; the latest casualty of the government's failed strategy for our airlines industry. Under the Liberals' watch, we have lost Canadian Airlines, Royal Aviation, RootsAir and CanJet.

Is the transport minister offering more of the same? Is he prepared to preside over the disappearance of yet another airline?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has to get her terminology right. Canada 3000 sought an application before a judge for protection under the Consumer Creditor Arrangement Act.

As I said previously, the Government of Canada was prepared to consider a loan guarantee, if that company met a number of conditions, including a restructuring plan, investor injection and a business plan that showed viability. Those conditions are still in place.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canada 3000 employees are trying to do their part. The flight attendants' union has offered to accept 500 layoffs and a wage rollback, all of which have been rejected by their employer.

Is the transport minister prepared to accept his share of the responsibility for this fiasco? Will he at least agree to the flight attendants' request that he intervene personally to help seek out a solution to this crisis?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, on the assumption that the judge grants the application, the matter is now being supervised under a statute and we have to let the process take its course.