Debates of March 16th, 2001

Criminal Code

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

It is not what 30,000 police say. It is not what virtually everyone in the country says.

By now we have hundreds if not thousands of letters that say we need a national sex offender registry. We need to register the people. We need to have them mandated to report. We need to give them penalties if they do not report. They need to report in person. Deterrents need to be added. The public needs to know where these people are. What makes it doubly difficult is the system itself allowing them to change their names while in prison. The system has a difficult time tracking them.

Time and time again I have heard of cases. I will mention a couple to the House. In one case, a convicted murderer who was sentenced to 15 years in prison changed his name to Michael Francis Blais. In another case, that of Robert Noyes, who was a very violent sex offender in British Columbia, I got a call from a parole board person who said that this offender had changed his name. I was told that I could not get his name because someone else might find out. After getting off the phone I telephoned the prison and was told that it was private information. No one could tell me.

Come on, I said. This guy had sexually assaulted many children. He was a teacher. If he changed his name and went to another province—which he did—what was to prevent him from leaving prison in B.C., changing his name and address, getting a new driver's licence, changing his name on his teaching certificate and, using a bit of jargon used in the teaching discipline, getting on as a substitute teacher in a new community, getting seniority and getting back into the classroom?

If hon. members think this is some kind of fearmongering, it is not. This is what these individuals do. This fellow preyed on children in the classroom. It is not above and beyond the mindset of these individuals to do such a thing.

The situation now is not a punishment for these individuals. It is yet another situation whereby individuals go into a courtroom or a prison and basically nothing is done to prevent another occurrence of the situation. In fact, the system aids and abets it.

What I am asking for in this bill is a bit of common sense. Not only do we need a sex offender registry, but we also need the ability, at the discretion of the courts, to prevent serious offenders from changing their names while in prison. I am not saying it should apply to everybody. Everybody has different circumstances. However, surely in Willoughby's case and Gordon Stevens' case it applies. I know some of Stevens' victims rather well. They were chained to logs in his basement, and he charged a fee for people to sexually assault these children. This is the kind of individual who is changing his name.

I just do not think that allowing people to change their names is a very good idea and neither do the many people I have worked with. In fact, they are watching this today and hoping that there is some kind of reasoning from the other side, that the government will take a second look at this and maybe bring it back to the House for a vote.

Jamie Munro changed his name. He, along with his brother, is a convicted killer of police officer Michael Sweet. He served 12 years, was released on parole and legally changed his name. Peter Patrick Bender changed his name to Peter Asher. He has a long history of convictions dating back to 1979. He was also convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to life in prison, but applied for a section 745. The hearing is coming up now.

Changing names is as common as walking into a parole board hearing, which I have done many times, and hearing the same four things from prisoners. Virtually every time one attends a parole board hearing, one hears the same four things. A guy walks into the room and says, one, he has found Jesus, two, he has a woman, three, he is sorry for what he did, and four, he has taken some courses in prison and now wants to get out. They get this ability from inside the system. When questions start coming from parole board members, they go into meltdown because they really do not know what they are saying and they really do not know how to persuade or convince somebody of those statements.

However, the word gets out to sex offenders in prison that if they are getting out they are going to be watched, so for everything to be copacetic they should change their names, their IDs, their addresses and everything else. They can become obscure and live in a house beside someone and everything will be copacetic.

The problem is that when children or women are re-offended by an individual who has gone through all that, it is because we have permitted, aided and abetted it in our system.

Since the government will not allow this to be votable and since this will not become law here for at least four years, I ask government members to reconsider what I said. I also ask them not to stand and degrade the situation by saying that it is some kind of erratic response to an isolated incident. I assure members opposite that it is not isolated. It is in fact becoming commonplace.

With the number of sexual offences on the rise, we must do everything we can, not only in our courtrooms and with a sex offender registry, but we must also convince judges to do everything in their power to prevent the reccurrence of crime. All of us know that sex offenders are the most difficult, if not impossible, to rehabilitate and get ready for the street.

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak today to private member's bill, Bill C-240, respecting the rights of offenders to legally change their names.

The ability to propose measures that are not among the government's priorities is an important element of parliament, one that can from time to time lead to constructive changes that have been hoped for. The government is open to suggestions from those who sincerely believe they are proposing positive and significant changes.

In this case, the sponsor of the bill has brought an idea to the wrong legislative body. The process and the policies that govern legal name changes reside within the mandates of the provincial governments. Each province has an official registrar or equivalent that grants or denies name changes and registers these changes in official records. The federal government does not have jurisdiction in this area.

That said, I think the goals of the bill are of interest to all members of the House. We all would agree that the need to keep track of convicted offenders is an integral part of the public safety equation on which the government stands firm. It is especially a concern if an offender changes his or her name in an attempt to hide from authorities.

It is of course critically important that government and police agencies across the country have the ability to track offenders released from our penal institutions. That cannot be overemphasized, and the government stands firm in its resolve to ensure that is the case. That is precisely why the government has invested in important and useful tools to keep track of offenders.

We need only look at the Canadian Police Information Centre, CPIC, and the national DNA databank as examples. The Canadian government has a national database containing information on all individuals who have been convicted of an indictable offence in Canada. It includes birth names, names chosen later in life, aliases and any other pertinent information with respect to the individual.

That database is called CPIC and it is maintained by our national police force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It is available to all police agencies across Canada. I can assure this House that CPIC has been a national success story in law enforcement since it first began operation in 1972. We continue to provide the necessary resources and tools, and it has become the envy of police forces around the world.

Let me tell the House why. CPIC is the primary tool used to identify suspects, to access outstanding warrants and restraining orders, to screen out sex offenders from jobs involving contact with children and to flag files of dangerous offenders. It is a database that serves over 60,000 law enforcement officers in each province and territory and it handles over 100 million queries from 15,000 points of access.

CPIC is linked to over 400 criminal justice agencies in Canada as well as internationally, and the government has committed millions of dollars to upgrade and renew CPIC to ensure it remains a valuable resource, which it is.

The government has also put in place another mechanism to identify some of Canada's most serious and repeat offenders: the national DNA databank. This is a tool that has, in my view and in the view of the government, revolutionized the way police work is done in Canada today. It is already proving to be a very valuable tool with respect to public safety.

The DNA databank is maintained by the RCMP. It contains a crime scene index that includes DNA profiles from unsolved crime scenes as well as a convicted offenders index containing DNA profiles from serious and repeat offenders. It has been in place since last June as a result of the wisdom and foresight of our government. It has already had an unprecedented number of matches between crime scenes and convicted offenders and it is helping police conduct their investigations more effectively and efficiently.

As you can see, Madam Speaker, the national DNA bank is yet another example of how the government is keeping tabs on criminals.

My point, and the reason the government has invested in these tools, is simple. Because of leading edge technology at our disposal, like CPIC and the DNA databank, we effectively keep track of offenders in a number of ways and not only through their names. We also use fingerprints and even their DNA. We do not, I repeat, do not, simply rely on criminals to tell us their proper names. That would be pretty naive.

The reality for criminals in Canada is that they can run but they cannot hide. This is especially important for victims of crime. I can assure you, Madam Speaker, and all members in the House, indeed, all Canadians, that it is the victims who are our first concern.

I have an enormous amount of sympathy for victims. I worked with them when I was chair of the Waterloo Regional Police Service and I can tell members that because victims are involved in our criminal justice system through no fault of their own, we should be there for them. While it is true that many wish to hear nothing further from their perpetrators, there are also countless victims who wish to be kept informed of what happens to offenders once they enter a federal penitentiary. In those cases, then, victims are most certainly brought into the process by Correctional Service Canada as well as the National Parole Board. Each of these agencies has active victim outreach programs which, upon the victim's request, provide information about the location of the offender, upcoming hearings, transfers, conditional release dates and other details.

It is important to realize that the agencies within the criminal justice system also talk to each other. Correctional Service Canada, for example, and the National Parole Board work closely with the RCMP to provide information that is relevant, important and of interest to the CPIC people.

It is the practice of Correctional Service Canada to provide information in each instance where an offender succeeds in formally changing his or her name. What that means is that all authorities who have a key role to play in the administration of an offender's sentence have access to information about the offender which is continually updated with important information the police authorities need to know.

On the other side of the issue are those offenders who make an effort to rehabilitate themselves and who want to put their troubled pasts behind them. These are the offenders who participate in programs that are available to them in the criminal justice system. These are the offenders who participate in mental health programs, literacy programs and educational opportunities. These are the offenders who try to make, and hopefully do make, an honest effort to put their pasts behind them, move on to a new and law abiding life and reintegrate into society.

I speak of the majority of offenders when I mention those people. Upon their return to the community some of these individuals seek anonymity to break the ties with their past so that they can make a fresh start. Regardless, the appropriate authorities still have a record of those people.

It is important to realize that even if offenders succeed in changing their names through a provincial government registry, that information is added to our existing federal government databases. The information is maintained by our national police force and shared with local police services across Canada.

In conclusion, it is my belief and the belief of the government that with the DNA databank, CPIC and the co-operation of the RCMP and municipal and provincial police services across this great country, we already have the tools to ensure these efforts are maintained in a positive way.

I point out again, as I did at the beginning, that it is beyond the jurisdiction of parliament to deal with this issue. For those reasons, then, I do not support Bill C-240 and I ask all hon. members in the House to do the same.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank the previous speaker for his foray into the language of Molière and assure him it is always appreciated on this side of the House.

I do not think we can support the bill introduced by my colleague although we acknowledge the worthiness of the concerns he has shared with us today.

We think all Canadian parliamentarians are concerned about public safety and want us to live in a society where those who represent a threat to public safety or may be sexual offenders or may commit other types of offences punishable under the criminal code may be known to the police. We think that the means proposed by this bill do not go far enough.

Let us begin by saying that the sponsor of the bill spoke as if the bill was to apply just to sex offenders, when the bill clearly provides that it applies equally to people who have committed first or second degree murder.

It seems to me there are fairly significant distinctions to be made between the ability of someone who has committed second degree murder to be rehabilitated and that of someone known nationally as a sexual predator.

I think that in the bill, as section 727.1 appears, this difference is not very clear.

Second, the identity of the criminals covered by the bill cannot be sanctioned or the subject of interventions by this House, since the various civil registers are not under federal jurisdiction. It would be difficult, through a change to the criminal code, to ask the courts of justice to be responsible for this application.

In Quebec, for example, the provisions on name changes would be found in the civil code. It is hard to imagine how we could reconcile having a common law court apply the criminal code and a judge issue orders relating to the civil code.

What I find disturbing in a bill like this one is that, in a way—and the sponsor of the bill mentioned this several times—it is as if the rehabilitation of people who have been found guilty of criminal offences is simply not possible.

Let me give an example to illustrate my point. In my riding office in Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, I met a 17 year old who comes from a dysfunctional family. His mother had remarried to a man who beat her up and who displayed extremely violent behaviour. This young man killed his stepfather.

I believe he had turned 18 when he committed that murder. This makes it first degree murder. He killed the man because he was living in a home where family violence prevailed. He claimed he did it to protect his mother.

Of course, there can be no excuse for such an action. But with a bill like this one, this young fellow citizen is in jail for 10 years. If he becomes eligible for parole after serving 10 years, he will then be 28. He will not even have lived one-third of his life and he may well want to reintegrate society.

The member who sponsored the bill would have us believe that people who are incarcerated are not required to undergo any sort of rehabilitation program. I believe that it is comments such as these that show that our Canadian Alliance colleagues lack the judgment we are entitled to expect from parliamentarians.

They must know—particularly with respect to Quebec, but I have been told that this is true in the case of other provinces—that those who are incarcerated are periodically evaluated. And programs exist to help them develop their social and behavioural skills.

The various federal penitentiaries offer a cognitive skills training program, a living skills program, and a sex offenders program. There are therefore a number of programs to help individuals try to improve.

Do these programs produce results in all cases? Of course not. Some people are offenders through and through. It is in their genes and they will never change. It is the role of the government and of legislators to ensure that these people do not come into contact with the public.

The bill, as drafted, is much too general. Interpreting it would pose quite a challenge for judges and it does not go into the detail we are entitled to expect.

If I follow the bill's logic, my constituent who, at the age of 18, killed his stepfather in the circumstances I recounted, would not be eligible to change his name. I do not think this would be desirable in his case. It is possible for someone to have made mistakes in one's life and to be rehabilitated. It is possible to have committed first or second degree murder and subsequently become a good citizen.

In this connection I am not sure that the right means are being taken to attain this most desirable objective. I do not, I repeat, want to see sexual predators or serial killers moving about freely in my riding of Hochelaga—Maisonneuve any more than the hon. member wants them in Ahuntsic. That is obvious.

It is a long jump from that to asking us as parliamentarians to pass a bill that would provide the courts with an interpretative framework that disregards the constitution. This creates difficulties. It is not possible for a court of justice, which has to reach a decision on an offence covered by the criminal code, to make interpretations relating to the identity of individuals since that involves provincial civil records.

Next month the Minister of Justice will be introducing a bill that will review the important provisions on organized crime and the criminal code. If I had one well-meaning criticism to make of my colleagues in the Canadian Alliance, it would be that they do not always differentiate between criminals in general and the worst type of criminals.

Take for example Mom Boucher, the leader of the Hell's Angels, whose stomping grounds were my riding of Hochelaga—Maisonneuve. I have no hopes that he will be rehabilitated now that he is behind bars. I hope that we, as parliamentarians, will bring more severe provisions into the criminal code so that it will be unlawful to even be an ordinary member of any of the 38 motorcycle gangs known to the RCMP and to the criminal intelligence service.

I am not prepared to support a bill providing that a person found guilty of first degree murder, under the circumstances I have mentioned, is to automatically be denied an identity change.

In a debate on criminal law, rehabilitation and protection in society, there are nuances to be made. Unfortunately, things are not always as black or white as members of the Alliance would have us believe sometimes.

Once again, I am sure than our colleague, the sponsor of this bill, is motivated by the very noble reason of public safety, but I am not sure that the means and the route he advocates are the right ones.

I would like to quote statistics which, I think will illustrate my remarks once more. We know how the parole system works. Eligibility for parole does not come automatically. When sentencing provides for the possibility of parole, it comes after 25 years if a life sentence is involved, and after one-sixth of the sentence has been served in other cases.

Madam Speaker, I know that these concepts are familiar to you because you have served as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

In conclusion, when we study our colleague's bill I hope we will find it contains harsher measures for criminals, but the possibility of rehabilitation for those who would seem to have the potential for it.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Madam Speaker, a happy St. Patrick's Day to you and other members.

I am pleased to speak to Bill C-240. This is a bill that brings forward the discretionary powers of a judge to expand upon conditions that can be put in place to protect the public generally. It is a bill that would prohibit certain offenders from changing their names.

The discretionary powers that currently exist in terms of the sentence a judge may mete out, include such things as putting in place prohibitions on the possession of firearms, weapons or explosives, or the use of drugs or alcohol, or prohibiting an offender from associating with known criminals or associating with children. These are obviously protective measures that a judge in his or her wisdom has deemed necessary to continue with the rehabilitative process and, more important, to protect the public.

The purpose with this bill quite clearly is the prevention of an individual who has been convicted of a serious violent offence, whether it be of a sexual nature or violence, from changing his or her name either during or after incarceration so that the public might be informed and there might be an ability to recognize this individual by name. Banning the ability to change name I would suggest does enhance the ability to protect the public, so there is a very rational purpose behind the bill brought forward by the hon. member.

The revelation, or the heightened public awareness, came about quite recently that Karla Homolka might be planning to change her name. This certainly alarmed a lot of people around the country. There was a sense of fear and frustration on the part of many that a person convicted of such a heinous crime could somehow be released and live under an alias. It is very similar to the reason in which persons will often cloak themselves or wear masks to hide their identities.

Although in this notorious case it did not occur, there was an excellent point behind the rationale of the bill. Violent offenders often attempt to change their names and successfully change them while in prison. Although media publicity would make it virtually impossible in the case that I referred to for that individual to go unnoticed, the reality is that there are many violent offenders who are successful in hiding their identities. Then, subsequent to their release, blend into communities.

I realize the importance of rehabilitation and the ability of offenders, having paid their debt to society, to come back and to try to contribute in a productive way. However, there is also this ongoing threat in the case of certain types of offences.

I believe the hon. member would not take any umbrage with possible amendments to the legislation he has proposed. The bill calls for discretion. It is not the be all and end all answer to the problem. It calls for discretion on the part of judges to exercise whether they would impose this ban. It is, as well, enunciated that it is for a scheduled list of offences. A judge would obviously take into consideration certain circumstances as to whether it would be appropriate. This is not to be used in every case.

I understand the argument that once people have served their time that they want to get on with their lives. The greater purpose of public protection sometimes warrants that the knowledge exists that these individuals involved themselves previously with violence or in the worst of cases involving sexual violence with children. I would suspect that those vulnerable persons in our society must take a priority when it comes to protection.

The priority of the Conservative Party has always been with the rights and safety of the public. We sadly acknowledge that there are individuals who continue to pose in some instances a life long threat to children in particular. I am referring to pedophilia where it has been diagnosed in many cases as an affliction that remains with an individual. Sex offenders in particular continue to pose that threat even after release, if there is no follow up or treatment.

The parliamentary secretary gave the House a particularly odious self-congratulatory speech. He droned on about the ongoing dubious accomplishments of the Liberal government. The reality is when it comes to the CPIC system, we were on the verge of collapse just a few short years ago. We heard the re-announcement time and time again of the $115 million that went into the CPIC system.

The Canadian Police Association told Canadians it needed double that amount to make the system really work. It was only a few short years ago that it was described by a member of the police association as being held together with bubble gum and barbed wire. That was a bit of a different slant on things than we heard from the parliamentary secretary. This was coming from an individual more in the know.

The parliamentary secretary also spoke about the communication and the exchange of information between departments. I want to speak very briefly on that. It appears that there is increasing evidence that there is a breakdown sometimes in the communication between departments, whether it be CSIS, the solicitor general's department, Corrections Canada, the RCMP and the parole board. Our RCMP on occasion do not share information with the department of immigration.

There is a very recent example of that. In the Amodeo case, this debacle where an individual wanted by Italian authorities was in Canada, there were communications from the Italian authorities to the RCMP and to the Department of Justice. There were applications under way for extradition. We know that on June 10 the immigration department received an application from the wife of this notorious individual that contained the name of Mr. Amodeo.

For some reason, and the minister has referred to legal documents and one can only assume this means the individuals were separated, it had the name in its possession. Surely someone in the department of immigration must have run a check either on the wife or Mr. Amodeo himself. It would have found the name red flagged on the CPIC system if it was operating properly. The system is also linked to Interpol. There is a question as to whether the CPIC system was working or whether this was a human error.

This communication break down can be very fatal when we are dealing with individuals like Mr. Amodeo who is suspected of involvement in three murders and Mafia connections in Italy.

That demonstrates the fact that this system is not foolproof. It is certainly subject to human frailties if the information is not entered. It also demonstrates that there is a need for protection. The use of that information is extremely important in law enforcement in this country. The bill would enhance the ability of law enforcement communities to use information successfully to protect the public.

There are other examples where the current system has failed us. The refusal of the government to eliminate the statutory release from corrections and conditional release. This allows even the most unco-operative offenders who continue to pose a threat and who have refused rehabilitative efforts, to be placed back in the community.

This often comes after serving less than two-thirds of their time. It is a sad reality that Canada has consistently seen violent criminals being released without proper rehabilitation. It is good proof that systems anywhere are not always perfect, but we have to do everything that we can to try to enhance the law. It is incumbent upon us to examine approaches such as the one put forward by the hon. member.

I have an example that would demonstrate how this would work. A not so notorious killer, or a rapist, or an unrepentant, unrehabilitated offender from Nova Scotia was released upon warrant expiry. He changed his name, moved to British Columbia, received a new driver's licence, new identification and set up a new life for himself, which he was entitled to do. What if that individual then applied to become a Boy Scout troop leader, a Big Brother or a coach?

That type of situation could put a child in serious jeopardy given that individual's past. It could be prevented possibly by the type of system that is envisaged in Bill C-240. There is no guarantee but it would be a step very much in the right direction.

The consequences of lack of knowledge can be tragic and at the very least it is entirely possible that this type of offender, if he committed a crime in British Columbia under a new name, would be given the benefit of extra judicial measures. It is a subterfuge to change the name or mask a person's identity. There needs to be responsibility. The purpose of the bill enunciates the type of crimes for which it would be appropriate.

The bill does not oblige judges to act. It simply allows the courts to make these types of prohibition orders. It may be a prohibition for life or for a short duration. The courts can consider the desirability and applicability of the circumstances. A court now makes prohibition orders on similar circumstances. As well, the penalties are tied into indictable offences. I cautiously support the bill, or a variation thereof, and I congratulate the hon. member for bringing it forward.

[Betty Hinton, Canadian Alliance, Kamloops, Thompson And Highland Valleys, BC]

Madam Speaker, my comments will be very brief. First, I commend my colleague from the Tory party for his comments. It is reassuring to know that there was someone in the House who was listening with full attention today.

I am very upset with some of the comments that were made. There is a very distinct reason for the legislation that we are putting in front of the House today. It is to protect children. It cannot be emphasized too much that this would be at the call of a judge. There would be a chance for a judge to determine whether the person was trying to change his or her name for the wrong reasons. In the case of sexual offenders against children, there can be no right reason to change his or her name. We need to be able to identify those people across the country to keep children, our most sacred natural resource, safe.

The national screening system, CPIC, is another thing that has been raised. It only serves to prevent sex offenders from working or volunteering within organizations involving children. CPIC only contains the criminal records of sexual offenders. It does not inform police that a dangerous sex offender is living within their jurisdiction. That is what the legislation would also do. It would inform a community that it had a dangerous offender in its area.

If we are going to do the things that we are expected to do in the House, and if any errors are made, we should always err on the side of the child. I will support the legislation fully.

[Ken Epp, Canadian Alliance, Elk Island, AB]

Madam Speaker, I commend the member for putting forth the proposed legislation. I too regret, as he mentioned in his speech, that Bill C-240 is not votable.

It is great to be able to talk about issues in this place called the Parliament of Canada, the place of speaking, the place of words, but the ultimate purpose should be to put our words into action in a practical sense so that our goals as members of parliament representing our constituents are actually met.

Our primary goal with legislation like this is, as has been mentioned over and over again, the protection of children and women. We are talking about the ability of serious criminals to change their name.

The other day we spoke at length about the need for a national registry of sex offenders, those who prey on women and children. The purpose of things like that is very clear. We know we cannot make people good just by passing a law, but we also know that the function of law is to restrain those who are evil. That is why we are here and why motions and bills like this should be votable. We should be able to actually implement ideas that will make our society safe and restrain those who would do very bad things.

I am very concerned that there is almost a passive response to these initiatives on the governing side. I know our current rules of debate will be subject to revision and we need to really seriously ask the question whether we should be even able to have such a debate without bringing it to a vote. The second and the more important issue here is that, with the parliamentary secretary having given a speech that said basically the Liberals do not favour the legislation, it would mean that even if we were able to vote, it would go nowhere because they would tell their people to vote against it and that would be the end of the matter.

We are suffering from a lack of a democratic environment in the House. We are in a situation where we need to change some of these laws.

I would like to address another issue in the bill, the issue of jurisdiction. It has been pointed out that the keeping of vital statistics is a provincial matter, and I believe that is correct. When our children were born in the province of Alberta, we registered their births in Edmonton, not in Ottawa. I should not say they were all born in Edmonton because we also had a daughter born in southern Alberta, in the little town of Brooks. However, their births were registered in Alberta. I personally have a birth certificate from Saskatchewan, the province in which I grew up.

However, the fact of the matter is that we are dealing here with a criminal issue. We are dealing with people who can change their names, move to a different jurisdiction and, consequently, by changing their identity can become an unknown danger to people around them.

The member from the Bloc made a very good point when he said that we ought not to put a wall in front of people who are genuinely rehabilitated, who want to get on with life and who, from this point onward, want to be good, law-abiding citizens.

However, I think we err when we buy into the argument that a person convicted of a crime and having paid the penalty to society, as it is often said, is then off the hook. In our country we often find people only serving two-thirds of their sentence because the government does not enforce the full rule of law.

The fact of the matter is that all of us have obligations. I have never been convicted let alone even charged with a crime and yet I have an obligation. When I walk down the street at night and there are other people sharing the sidewalk, I have the same obligation not to attack them as the person who has served time in jail for having attacked someone.

I submit that our obligation to society does not end when we have fulfilled a sentence for having broken the law. All of us carry an ongoing obligation to society to maintain our surveillance and protection of others around us.

It boggles my mind that there is such resistance to many of the measures that we are trying to implement and promote, which would enhance the safety of Canadian citizens. We should have a number of really good laws like the one being proposed that would improve the safety of Canadians.

We can say that it is too harsh but I do not believe that it is. I do not believe that some of the penalties we are proposing, for example, serving consecutive sentences for crimes that are committed rather than concurrently, are too harsh. If people think that is too harsh, let them simply not break the law. The law will never apply to them, and they will have freedom for life.

Let us say they break the law, violate the safety and violate in some cases the property of other people. In the case of property, there should be restitution. In the case of personal violence against individuals, there should be time penalties and incarceration. There should be no discount for consecutive offences. There should be rules that tell us that if we do certain things there are consequences, and then we should stick to it. I do not see why that is difficult.

I have always said that I personally do not care whether there is capital punishment for murder or not because I am not going to commit murder. Therefore, I do not expect to face a charge which will lead to capital punishment. For people who are contemplating it, hopefully it would restrain them. That would be the overriding purpose.

I have drifted a little from the purpose of the bill, which would disallow offenders from actually changing their names in order to hide behind the cloak of anonymity when they re-entered society. We need to help these people all we can. Knowing that they have committed a crime, I do not think is a hindrance to their rehabilitation. I do not think it is not as useful for them to be able to hide and pretend that they did not commit a wrong, as it is for them to face up to the crime, admit they did it and ask their new neighbours to help them to be strong, to do what is right and to fix their life. It is an ongoing process.

It is like alcoholics. When they go to Alcoholics Anonymous, even though they may not have drunk liquor for a number of years, they still begin their speeches by saying their names and that they are alcoholics. They recognize that there is an ongoing temptation and that it takes great inner strength and the strength of those around them to support the positive changes and not reoffend in that sense.

Yes, it may be difficult for a person who has committed a crime to live with that identity. I am aware of several individuals who have committed crimes of a lesser level. I am their friend and I help them. They are doing fine. We do not shut our eyes and pretend it never happened. We have to realistically admit that it happened and work together toward the goal that will guarantee it will never happen again in that individual's life.

I believe in the whole basis of taking responsibility for what one does. That is the missing link in a lot of what leads to criminal behaviour in our society these days. There are youngsters in school. They could be youngsters who go home, the parents are absent, certain things happen and they are allowed to do whatever they want without being personally held accountable for it. That develops and eventually we have the commission of these crimes. I urge all members to support the bill.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired. As the motion has not been designated as a votable item, the order is dropped from the order paper.

It being 2.30 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2.30 p.m.)