Debates of April 24th, 2001

Landmines

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on April 10 a commitment was made by Greece and Turkey that warrants much celebration. On that day both countries committed to ratifying the Ottawa convention banning anti-personnel landmines.

These bold decisions are huge steps toward lessening the suffering of thousands of civilians and soldiers confronted by the reality of war. These commitments by Turkey and Greece confirm that the anti-mine crusade is an effective way to improve world security and stability.

Greece and Turkey will be tabling the ratification instruments with the general secretariat of the United Nations at the same time.

All Canadians can applaud these commitments and feel confident that the movement that was started here in Canada will one day assure improved opportunities for human security and peace throughout the world.

National Defence

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my riding of Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca is a home to the Pacific fleet. Let us talk about what is happening to this particular group of military people who fight to defend our best interests.

The government gave them modest raises, which was a good thing, but what has also happened is that it has yanked that money back in terms of raises for the private married quarters under the guise of increasing the rates to say that those homes are the same as what we would find in the public. That is not the case. Those are 50 year old homes that are falling apart and without insulation. I have been in them. I would ask the minister to go in there and look for himself.

Our soldiers are coming back ill and are not receiving the health care they require. Our military hospitals are falling into disrepair. The schools for the children of our military are falling into disrepair and are rotting despite the best efforts of the families.

This is not a way to treat the men and women who give their lives in defence of our country. I would ask that the minister look at this. They are coming back ill, the suicide rates are up and the families are broken down. The minister should deal with this now.

The Economy

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not care how many times they ask me, I will not lead the Liberal Party.

The Prime Minister has used the summit of the Americas and the recent signing of the free trade deal with Costa Rica to sell Canadians on the idea of future prosperity and jobs but that will not happen until 2006 at the earliest.

Today we are hearing news of massive potential layoffs at JDS Uniphase. They are talking about 2,500 jobs on the line.

Will the Prime Minister tell us if his government is doing anything now, not five years from now, to secure more jobs and opportunities for all Canadians?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we realize that there are a lot of layoffs in the Alliance Party these days.

Canada's economy is in good shape. Some problems do exist not only in Canada and the United States but around the world. Everyone talks about a soft landing but here in Canada we have seen growth in the months of January and February. The situation is as good as any other nation.

However, we should not be too complacent about it. The budget that was introduced in October was a good one. It cut taxes to stimulate the Canadian economy.

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the people who are being laid off really do not think it is a joking matter. They are pretty concerned about it.

Canadians are also increasingly concerned about our low and sinking dollar. The 2001 Economic Freedom of the World Report found that Canada has fallen from seventh to thirteenth in terms of competitiveness. It is pretty clear that we need some action right away.

The Prime Minister talked a minute ago about tax cuts at some point in the past. I argue that we need tax cuts again.

Why will the Prime Minister not talk today about bringing down a new round of tax cuts and cutting job killing red tape to put Canadians back to work?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the tax cuts that were introduced by the Minister of Finance in October, which came into play in January, are bigger than the tax cuts that will be implemented over 10 years in the United States.

I would like to quote from an April 23 IMF report. It states:

The recently enacted tax reductions, the cut in short-term interest rates, and high levels of employment are expected to help sustain momentum in economic activity in Canada....

The strong policy framework in place has positioned the real and financial economy to cope with any new major economic shock. The Canadian authorities are to be highly commended for their policy accomplishments.

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it was only a couple of weeks ago when the finance minister was arguing that the slowdown was due to weakness in the American economy. Now he is taking credit for any strength in the Canadian economy because of their policies. This is completely contradictory.

In recent days there has been a contradiction between what the trade minister is saying and the Prime Minister is saying on chapter 11 in NAFTA and the FTAA. The minister appears ready to throw it overboard. The Prime Minister says that it is okay.

My question is simple: Who really speaks for the government on the issue of chapter 11 in the FTAA?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we speak with one voice. Article 11 is part of the NAFTA agreement and has been in operation for seven years.

Time will come for negotiation in the next four years with the other nations that are interested in joining us in the FTAA. At that time everything will be discussed. So far chapter 11 is there. We have $1.3 billion U.S. of trade every day in with the Americans. We have been faced with a few challenges on chapter 11. In fact, one has been won by the Canadian government.

Trade

[Deepak Obhrai, Canadian Alliance, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, despite all the rhetoric about democracy in the aftermath of the Quebec summit, the reality for Canadians is that the process in place for ratifying trade agreements is far from democratic.

The Prime Minister's commitment to democracy stops at allowing parliamentarians a vote on the final version of the FTAA agreement.

Will the Prime Minister commit today to true democracy by allowing the FTAA final agreement to be ratified by a free vote in parliament?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I am not absolutely sure that I will be here in 2005, I cannot commit the government to that.

I want the opposition to know that the democratic clause that was introduced over the weekend and accepted by everybody was a big victory for Canadian diplomacy. We should all be proud of that.

[Deepak Obhrai, Canadian Alliance, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the Prime Minister. I hope he is not there and we will be on the other side. We will be on the other side and they will go.

The question of transparency remains and a commitment by the government to say that the free trade agreement should be debated and signed by parliamentarians. Denying parliamentarians a vote means denying Canadians their voice.

Why does the Prime Minister continue to preach democracy in the hemisphere but deny it to the citizens of Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member of parliament has more or less made a compliment to me in his introduction. I want to repeat to him that what we did over the weekend was extremely important. We are all very confident that in the years to come it will be virtually impossible that democracy will be replaced in the Americas by any military takeover.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the following statement is found on the Internet site of the Departments of Foreign Affairs and International Trade “Canada is not advocating the replication of NAFTA investor-state rules in the FTAA”.

This weekend, at the summit of the Americas, Canada's position changed drastically with the Prime Minister stating that this chapter is working well.

How can the Prime Minister explain this about-face by his government regarding chapter 11, in the context of a possible agreement on a free trade area of the three Americas?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, chapter 11 is currently in effect. It has been for seven years. We are living with it now.

Of course, it is being reviewed on an ongoing basis to see if it could be improved on. Clearly, there will be discussions on this chapter in the years to come, since the other countries that want to join Canada and Mexico will see the impact of this chapter on their economy.

Considering the level of trade that we have had, chapter 11 has been used only a few times and so far the outcome has been quite positive for Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is confusing, to say the least. The Minister for International Trade told us that he was in disagreement with chapter 11.

Then, the Prime Minister told us that this chapter was working well, that he was in agreement with it. Now, the Minister for International Trade has changed his tune and claims to be in agreement with the Prime Minister, while adding that the government has not yet taken a position. Meanwhile, his department's Internet site states that chapter 11 must not be replicated in the FTAA.

Could we know what is the government's position, assuming it has one?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I just explained it clearly, I think. Chapter 11 is currently in effect.

It is obvious that this chapter will be discussed in the negotiations that will take place in the years to come. At that point, we may try, if we deem it necessary, to improve it. To do so, we will need the consent of the other 33 countries.

It will take three or four years to settle this issue. If opposition parties, and even members of my own party, want to make suggestions, we will certainly take them into consideration, review them and attempt to—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Joliette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the lawsuits now under way and those that might yet be brought under chapter 11 of the NAFTA agreement could exceed $2 billion. Clearly, this is no small affair.

How can the Prime Minister and his government be so irresponsible as not to have a clear position on something as basic, both for NAFTA and for the FTAA, as chapter 11, when what is at stake is the very ability of governments to legislate for the common good?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I see that the opposition still wants to keep trying to scare people about the great strides we are making with respect to NAFTA and international trade.

I am surprised that the Bloc Quebecois is starting to turn against free trade, when its head office in Quebec City is still in favour of it.

Basically, our government is systematically doing what it is supposed to do. NAFTA provides for mechanisms. These mechanisms allow us to constantly review the work we are doing on this, and we are doing absolutely—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Joliette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we agree with free trade but, as the Minister for International Trade said, there is a problem with chapter 11. He admitted it himself. The Prime Minister says the opposite.

What is the government's position? In the face of such an important threat, should the Prime Minister not clarify his position and tell us whether chapter 11 poses a problem for Canadians and Quebecers in the context of NAFTA today?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the government believes strongly that chapter 11 is working reasonably well.

Again last week, we won the Pope & Talbot case, and we did so without a hitch. NAFTA provides mechanisms which allow us to have an ongoing dialogue with our partners and to continue to improve the superb agreement which has created two million jobs in the Canadian economy over the last seven years under the leadership of the present government.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday and again this afternoon, the trade minister confirmed the government's flip flop on its commitment not to sign on to any more trade deals that put corporate rights ahead of citizens' rights. The Prime Minister confirmed the same a few minutes ago.

The promise was to get rid of chapter 11 in NAFTA and not sign on to any other trade deals that repeat the same mistake.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why has the government changed its position?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have not changed our position. We have signed an agreement on chapter 11. We have explained that when there is $1.3 billion of trade on a daily basis in American dollars with the United States, the number of cases under chapter 11 is not extravagant. In most cases the government has won.

We will always look at it and improve it if it is in the interest of all partners to do so, but chapter 11 has been there for the past seven years. At this moment there is no likelihood that it will be changed within the next few months.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, no amount of self-congratulations or blah, blah, blah by the Prime Minister will change the fact that the government has flip-flopped on a very specific commitment it made to get rid of chapter 11 in NAFTA and not repeat the mistake. Yesterday the Prime Minister repeated exactly that mistake further entrenching the chapter 11 NAFTA provision in the latest deal signed with Costa Rica.

Will the Prime Minister explain to Canadians why his government has flip flopped and reversed its—