Debates of April 3rd, 2001

Supply

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to the motion by the Leader of the Official Opposition calling for what he terms an independent judicial inquiry on the presumed conflict of interest, as he calls it, in connection with the Grand-Mère Golf Club and the Grand-Mère inn.

As the member of parliament, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, has indicated, what we have today is a debate, a debate essentially on credibility.

Both speakers from the Alliance who have preceded my remarks have been sued, both successfully and both for saying wrong things about Canadians. Of course, both of them have had to issue public apologies, including some of them on the floor of the House. We remember them well.

Let me be very clear about what this motion being brought forward wants to do. Despite the fact that the Prime Minister has been cleared by the ethics counsellor, despite the fact that the Prime Minister has answered countless questions in the House, despite the fact that the RCMP has determined that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation into this so-called fishing expedition by the guy who initiated this, and despite the fact that the Prime Minister has taken the unprecedented step of having many personal documents tabled in the House, the opposition goes on. It keeps moving the target. Every time it gets what it asks for, it asks for something else.

The only conclusion one can reach is that what the Leader of the Opposition is concerned about is that he cannot bring the reality of the situation in line with what he imagines it to be, and wants it to be.

Let me state the facts that the Prime Minister and the government have been stating for two years. The family of the Prime Minister, prior to the 1993 election, owned shares in a golf club. There is a neighbouring Auberge Grand-Mère that has nothing to do with the golf course at all, other than the fact that along with five other golf courses it is in the neighbourhood.

On November 1, 1993, the holding company owned by the Prime Minister's family sold its shares in the golf course to Akimbo Development owned by Mr. Jonas Prince. That was before the MP from Saint-Maurice was sworn in as Prime Minister. The sale left the Prime Minister with a debt owing but not equity in a business.

The Leader of the Opposition knows this. He has seen the 1999 transaction where Akimbo Development says:

Whereas Akimbo has now received legal advice that Akimbo retained legal title to the shares since November 1, 1993.

The people who owned it say that they owned it. They sold it and presumably they were paid for having sold it. It is clear that the Prime Minister and his family were not shareholders in this particular endeavour since 1993. Do those facts bother the Leader of the Opposition? No, they do not.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

They are not true.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre says that is not true. The facts do not coincide with his imagination. The legal debt owed the Prime Minister was unaffected by the value of the golf course and we know that.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Was he paying the same at the end as at the beginning?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We all know about the imagination of the member for Calgary Centre who alleged that the golf course was benefiting from the presence of the hotel when it was proven to him that it was the reverse. The golf course in question, and I have been there, has a bar that competes with the hotel next door. That was a fabrication again that we heard a few weeks ago.

I remind the House that when the Prime Minister was informed in 1996 that the debt owing to him was outstanding, he displayed what I would consider very high moral principles in regard to the issue and he informed the ethics counsellor. Are those the actions of an individual who seeks to disrespect a code of ethics? No, they are not. Did he try at that time to somehow increase profit? Obviously it did not happen. It did not take place and everybody knows that.

The information has been public for two years. Information released last week supports what I have stated. A binding contract of sale was tabled in the House of Commons.

A member opposite said that there was no financial consideration. Apparently she is a real estate agent by profession. I know something about that profession as well. Does she know that this was not a real estate transaction? This was a transaction of shares. Does she know that fact? Does she care? Does she know the difference? No. She pretends to be an expert in Quebec civil law—

[An hon. member]

Would you buy a used house from this woman?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Would I buy a used house? Well, that is another matter. I will stay out of that for personal and family reasons. I will not get into that.

None of the allegations have proven to be correct.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to indicate that I will be splitting my time with the Minister of Industry.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

No way.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

There is no rule about when a member has to do that during his speech, and the hon. member knows that.

I remind members that in addition to the loan it received from the Business Development Bank, the Auberge Grand-Mère, the reason it would seem the members opposite are raising this matter borrowed money from the local caisse populaire and from the FSTQ.

Are they known for being close personal friends of the Prime Minister? We are talking about the Fonds de solidarité des travailleurs du Québec. It does not take a genius to understand what is motivating some of the members opposite.

The facts are clear. The government's consistent presentation of those facts is clear. The RCMP statement finding no evidence of wrongdoing in this fishing expedition is clear. Is the opposition's position clear? No, it is not.

This is a lynch mob mentality and it keeps moving the goal posts. The member for Edmonton North said that the Prime Minister could get over this in a heartbeat by tabling the bill of sale. It was done. The Progressive Conservative leader made a similar statement.

The Bloc Quebecois House leader told the House clearly he would ask no more questions if the documents were tabled. No one on the other side of the House has kept their word on this.

The ultimate of silliness occurred about a week ago in the House when one member from the Alliance asked the Prime Minister to table his and his wife's income tax returns in the House of Commons to prove their innocence. Can we believe it? What kind of legal principle is that?

The members opposite, who say they are the defenders of integrity and morality, have asked the Prime Minister and his wife to prove their innocence. Has anyone ever heard of such a concept? It is an absurdity. It is an insult to the person giving so much in service to this country, the Prime Minister, who in a few days, will celebrate 38 years of loyal service to all the people of Canada.

I take this opportunity today to congratulate him on the quality of his work, his devotion to Canadians and his personal integrity. We will never forget that he is a great Prime Minister, who has done an exceptional job putting the country's finances in order, guiding this country and, of course, doing a proper job as Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister of Canada is honest, and we will not permit the sort of kangaroo court the member opposite is after.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, whenever he tries to answer questions, he raises more questions. The Bloc Quebecois, the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservative parties are asking for all the documents.

We want all the documents. They cannot get away with just tabling one thing written on the back of a table napkin and suggesting that it will suffice.

We have the Prime Minister saying that all the documents have been tabled. The day following that the ethics counsellor, the Prime Minister's private ethics counsellor, said that all the documents had not been tabled. Notably there is a very key document, the one that would show the names on the registry. We have asked very specifically for that document and I have asked for it in a written letter.

The ethics counsellor said that on receiving that letter and calling the registry to see about the names, the response that he received was that he could not see the document and the names that were there until a few little changes were made. That is ridiculous.

Is the member, who has just made a half-hearted attempt to protect a line of contradictions and conflict of interest, aware at all, in any way shape or form, of any of the content of that registry which right now as we speak apparently is being doctored and changed?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition knows that it would be illegal for me to have access to that documentation. What kind of ridiculous question is it to ask of me? Do I have personal knowledge of what would be in a document that would be illegal for me to know? What kind of a silly question is that?

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

You are a minister of the crown.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

For someone who was for a very short gestation period a prime minister until he figured out how to count votes in the House of Commons in 1979, he should know better as well than to agree with the Leader of the Opposition. The right hon. member for Calgary Centre should know better than what has just been raised by the Leader of the Opposition.

The documents have been tabled and the Leader of the Opposition knows it. What they are doing is asking for different information all the time. They are acting like a lynch mob in their feeble attack on this great man who is the Prime Minister of Canada.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there is the voice of reason and objectivity.

Every time we hear the opposite side say that this is a smear campaign, that this is a deliberate attack on the integrity of the Prime Minister, those individuals would know. They honed their skills when they were in opposition as members of the rat pack. They took personal attacks to a new level.

My question is for the hon. government House leader has to do with realistic transactions. The government House leader has suggested that there is no link whatsoever between this struggling hotel and the golf course. Does the hon. member actually expect Canadians to believe this? Does he actually expect Canadians to accept that this hotel, which was the recipient of over $600,000 of taxpayer money, would have no bearing on the financial success of the golf course owned by the Prime Minister? Does he actually expect Canadians to believe that if the hotel had gone bankrupt, the golf course would not have been affected? Is that what he is asking Canadians to swallow?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the question is erroneous. He says that the Prime Minister owned a hotel. That is factually incorrect and the hon. member knows it. It was sold in 1993. I have just read from the September 29, 1999 transfer agreement in which Akimbo is recognized as the owner and as having sold its shares. Akimbo would have great difficulty in selling something it did not own. The hon. member, as I have been told, is one of our learned colleagues in law. One would think that he would know that we cannot sell something that we do not own. It is not a very hard concept.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

Order, please. I would like to say that given the delicate nature of the debate the Chair needs to hear what hon. members are saying. There are high emotions here today. I would like to hear what hon. members are saying, so I ask for all members to co-operate.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate in the debate on the motion brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition calling for a public inquiry into the issues surrounding the Shawinigan file.

It is already very clear in the debate that not much will be said on one side of the House or the other which will change the minds of members opposite. Members of the opposition, with the exception, it appears, of the NDP, have come together in a single-minded attempt, to smear and damage the reputation of the Prime Minister. Members on this side are of the opinion that is occurring. We expect it to continue for some period of time, but eventually we expect that the people of Canada will insist that members of parliament on both sides get back to the business of Canada. Canadians are not impressed by this.

I am now speaking to the people of Canada. Canadians should look at the source of the allegations in this Chamber today. It is worth reminding ourselves that the gentleman who has tabled the motion, the Leader of the Opposition, and the individual who has seconded the motion, also from the opposition, have, within the space of a handful of years, found themselves before a court of law, or at least in the case of one, the threat of a court of law.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

You are on a high road now.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Bonavista—Trinity—Conception, NL]

No, these are the facts. The Leader of the Opposition cost the taxpayers of Alberta $800,000 because of allegations that were found to be false. A settlement was required and the taxpayers of Alberta were left with an $800,000 bill.

The gentleman making the case for an inquiry on behalf of the official opposition is the same gentleman who cost the taxpayers of Alberta $800,000 because of other false accusations issued in another place by a member of another chamber.

However he has learned something. In this case he does not repeat the phony and false allegations outside the House. The privileges of the House and the immunity of the House are being abused.

The Leader of the Opposition has left because I served notice that he just made a statement. He said the books were being cooked by Industry Canada even as we spoke. I shouted across the floor that I would like him to walk outside the House and repeat what he had said inside the House. I challenged the member opposite to do that and he got up and left the Chamber. With his usual degree of courage and integrity he has run before the battle for truth.

[Philip Mayfield, Canadian Alliance, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe the rules of the House are that there are to be no comments on the presence or absence of other members.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

The message has been made. The member is right.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Bonavista—Trinity—Conception, NL]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the member who seconded the motion, Canadians will recall a few years ago the allegation by a member of the House, the same member, that a long established public servant working with the security services of Canada was “a Russian spy”.

She said she had found out that there was a mole within the security services of Canada. She went outside the House. She released the document and smeared the reputation of a long serving public servant by saying there was a spy within the security services of Canada. The member who just seconded this serious motion apologized under threat of being sued. The allegation was withdrawn because the member was wrong.

When we hear a serious allegation the first thing we ought to do is consider the source. The sources are two members. Both members issued false statements, one while a member of the Alberta legislature and the other while a member of this place. Both settled before the threat of court action. Both have been found libellous with their comments and both are now standing as the chief accusers of the Prime Minister. We should consider the source.

We have another right hon. gentleman who has joined in this little charade, the right hon. leader of the Conservative Party whom I have seen across the floor of this place over the last 20 years. He says that he is interested in truth, justice and proper form. He says that he is not interested in battling the weak, dissipating and disappearing Leader of the Opposition for the title of leader of the new united right, whenever the right, fractious as it is, gets united. He says that is not what is going on.

No, this is about his undying, unyielding, overwhelming and powerful pursuit of truth. How unyielding and attracted to truth is the right hon. member? The CBC program The Fifth Estate did a documentary pointing out that German money associated with the Airbus affair was used to fly delegates and their wives and families into a Conservative Party convention, and that the money was passed out for spending sprees and shopping trips in order to take delegates away from the then leader of the Conservative Party. When the right hon. member was asked if he thought that was true and if he was concerned that Canadian national parties were tainted by foreign money, his answer was that he would respond in his memoirs.

If anyone is to take seriously the self-described spectacle of the leader of the Conservative Party as a gentleman who wakes up in the morning oozing the stuff of the pursuit of truth, then perhaps he ought to start the pursuit in his own backyard. Perhaps he should demand that proper investigations be done to determine what happened that day so long ago when, according to the CBC's The Fifth Estate and Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber himself, his party leadership was stolen away from him by forces outside the country.

It is not credible that the gentleman opposite is seriously pursuing the proper conduct and practice of parliament, Canadian parliamentary institutions and parties. It is not credible when he turns a blind eye to this story of which he was a victim within his own party.

The simple facts are these, and I will conclude with this. The Prime Minister sold his interest prior to becoming Prime Minister or at the time he became Prime Minister in 1993. That is a fact. The RCMP has investigated the matter at the request of the leader of the Conservative Party. The RCMP took a look and closed the file. It said publicly that there was no need for further investigation and no basis for an investigation. That was the independent inquiry.

The ethics counsellor is a long serving public servant. He is a former trade commissioner and negotiator who has spent nearly 30 years of his life in the Public Service of Canada. He too has repeatedly looked into the matter and closed the file. A majority of Canadians, 82%, say it is time to turn the page. Some 75%, more than voted for the Prime Minister in the last election, say the Prime Minister should not resign. Canadians are telling members of parliament to get on with the business of Canada and bring this spectacle to an end.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always interesting to listen to the former member of the rat pack on the other side who took personal attacks in the House to a new low when he was in opposition.

The minister talks about the leader of my party and a libel suit in Alberta. I suggest to him that the leader of my party put up some of his own money to cover those costs. He will also pay it back, which is something I have never seen from that side.

The government wrote a phony letter to a foreign government about a former prime minister. It was a phony letter. The government knew what it was doing: the smear and slander of a former prime minister. It then had to pay that prime minister's lawyers $2 million and spent about $3 million or $4 million in government legal fees. No one ever apologized on that side.

I will get to my question, but we have a right to point out the facts. This is the same government that spent tens of millions of dollars on Pearson airport, the same government that spent tens of millions of dollars on helicopters.

When will the minister stop using smear tactics on all members on this side of the House and start answering serious questions? A number of questions have been asked by this side of the House that have never been answered. Smear tactics are not the answer. No one is trying to smear individuals in the House. We are trying to get answers to very simple questions. That is what we want in the House.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Bonavista—Trinity—Conception, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the whip on the other side has risen in this place and spoken to this file. It should be noted by members who do not know, and in particular by Canadians who are watching the debate, that the member did not always sit as an Alliance member. He sat in the House as a member of the Conservative Party under the leadership of former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

What the member is now saying, and Canadians just heard it for themselves so I do not have to interpret it, is that this is about payback. It is about anger over the debates in this place during the last Conservative administration, of which the current leader of the Conservative Party was a member and a minister.

The member has just spoken from his Alliance seat but he too is a former Conservative member. He has just given us the motivation for this debate in the House. He has outlined a good part of the motivation of his own party, many of whom are former Conservative members, as well as the motivation of the current leader of the Conservative Party.

It is about payback. It is about trying to get even. It is about trying to target the current Prime Minister of Canada out of some misguided sense, I would suggest, of getting even on behalf of the leadership of the former Conservative government. That is not what parliament should be about. That should not be the basis of false allegations. Quite frankly, it will not wash with Canadians.