House of Commons Hansard #45 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was internet.

Topics

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It being 1.30 p.m. the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

April 6th, 2001 / 12:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jim Pankiw Canadian Alliance Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should immediately amend the Criminal Code to create a separate category of offences and punishments for computer hackers and persons who wilfully or maliciously export computer viruses, both of whose activities disrupt the normal conduct of electronic business in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I will start my speech with a discussion about the Internet and personal computers.

Obviously we live in a world environment where technology is changing at an ever increasing pace. It is creating a lot of opportunities but it also is creating some problems as well.

The Internet is a great tool to use for research. Many people are now shopping on the Internet. E-mail of course is a very efficient and effective method of communication and is becoming increasingly popular. People do banking online. Many companies or individuals for various reasons host websites, which are great sources of information for people to access.

Furthermore, the use of computers in today's world is an absolute necessity. Businesses use them for data management and for accounting purposes. As members of parliament, we rely on computers extensively for our word processing and all of our communications efforts.

Because technology, computers and the Internet are so pervasive in our society and becoming increasingly relied upon, consumer and customer confidence in the case of people who do business online is being questioned. There are issues of privacy.

My private member's motion is designed to fill a void that currently exists in the criminal code.

When the Internet was first developed and its use expanded upon, I do not think a lot of the pioneers who were behind the development of the Internet and the entrepreneurs who broke ground in improving the way computers worked ever envisioned that the Internet could be used for such perverted and corrupt purposes. I am speaking partially about the fact that children in some cases are being targeted and lured into situations where they might be abused by sexual predators.

My motion seeks to specifically provide new criminal code provisions to deal with people who disrupt electronic commerce on purpose. I am talking about computer hackers who hack into computers in an attempt to steal or retrieve data or to simply cause a computer malfunction. One of the most terrible acts occurs when people wilfully and maliciously export computer viruses for the purpose of disrupting business and commerce.

As part of my research for my motion, I contacted a constable with the RCMP commercial crimes division. I asked how the police would deal with people who with premeditation and malice exported a virus. I asked if they exported the virus for wide dissemination or if they were targeting a different organization, would that be dealt with differently. One would think that different acts would have different consequences in terms of the criminal code.

The constable's answers were vague and he was not forthcoming. I told him that he was not giving me the answers for which I was looking. He told me that that was because there was a vacuum in the criminal code. He said they did not have the tools to deal with this. He informed me that in many cases people were charged under a section of the criminal code termed mischief to data. However, it was not specific and not targeted.

My motion seeks to have the government introduce a bill that would have specific provisions in the criminal code which the police could use to charge people who engaged in activities such as hacking or exporting computer viruses.

I hope I receive all party support for this motion. I am proposing that provisions be put in the criminal code. I have not delved into what specific crimes should be delineated or added to the code nor have I made any reference to what the penalties ought to be.

If the bill came before the House of Commons, it would receive second reading, go to committee and would come back to this place for report stage. There would be many opportunities for us to debate the specific charges and what the penalties associated with them would be. This is the appropriate place for that.

I would like to offer my opinion. The penalties associated with criminal acts of computer hacking and exporting of viruses ought to be quite severe. I see these as wilful acts of malice and an attack on personal property. I see these acts as no different from those of an arsonist or somebody who breaks into a home and robs it. The penalties associated with these types of activities ought to be in that type of category which would act as a deterrent to the crimes themselves. We currently do not have appropriate provisions in the criminal code for the police to deal with individuals who are engaging in these activities nor do we have appropriate deterrents.

I would like to state for the record that my constituency office in Saskatoon had a problem with a hacker. My staff had to establish what is called a firewall. I do not know the technical aspects of that, but it is a situation whereby a computer system is set up so nobody can hack into it.

The Anna Kournikova virus which hit earlier this year infected many members' computers. My staff in Ottawa informed me that my computer received 130 of the Anna Kournikova viruses. We should take whatever reasonable measures we can to prevent that type of thing from happening. I also have some resolutions of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police on such things as Internet luring and the exploitation of children, criminal activity involving Internet and sexual activities with young people and other regulations and enforcement provisions of Internet matters. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has recognized that there is a need to be filled.

While my motion is specific and restricted only to computer hackers and virus exporters, there are obviously other things that need to be addressed as well. However I believe it has a basis of common sense and practicality. I hope it will receive the support of all members of the House.

I also want to take this opportunity to say that I am fortunate that this motion was drawn. For the viewers watching who do not know how it works in this place, private members of parliament do not have the privilege of proposing legislation to the House, except through the private members' lottery system. While we can table bills or motions in the House of Commons, they simply sit there in a state of suspension for an indefinite period of time. Periodically a lottery is held in which members' names are drawn. If we are fortunate enough to have a motion or a bill drawn, we then appear before a committee and a select few of those bills are actually deemed votable.

While I am fortunate enough to have had that happen to this motion, a member should not have to rely on good luck or fortune to have a proposal such as this come before the House of Commons. We should look at reforming the system of private members' business.

As a private member, if I had an initiative, a suggested proposal or an amendment to legislation that I wanted to bring forward on behalf of my constituents, this would be an effective means me to do that. It would also be a means to hold the government accountable for the laws and rules. If I am not afforded the ability to do that, it restricts my ability as a member of parliament to act as an effective member of the opposition.

I submit to the House that while it may be politically expedient to try to restrict initiatives from coming forward, we all benefit if opposition members are afforded an ability to be as effective as possible. The ability to bring forward motions or bills is something that should not be restricted.

I think I have effectively covered the premise of my private member's motion which is the need to fill a void in the current Criminal Code of Canada and set out specific offences related to people who willfully disrupt electronic business and commerce in Canada. Their behaviour is very offensive.

I hope I will have the support of all members of the House to have the government bring forward legislation to fill that void and properly address what is a growing problem in Canada.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

12:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Gurmant Grewal Canadian Alliance Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to participate in the debate on private member's Motion No. 80 which states:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should immediately amend the Criminal Code to create a separate category of offences and punishments for computer hackers and persons who willfully or maliciously export computer viruses, both of whose activities disrupt the normal conduct of electronic business in Canada.

I would like to begin my remarks in support of this common sense initiative by congratulating my colleague, the hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt, for bringing this matter to the floor of the House for consideration. My colleague introduced the motion in the last parliament as well but the Liberals ignored it.

My colleague's motion is forward thinking and responds to the needs of consumers and businesses who are very concerned about the shenanigans caused by computer hackers and those who enjoy sending out e-mails that crash computers.

Under the Criminal Code of Canada, law enforcement agencies and the courts are not properly equipped to lay criminal charges nor prosecute matters that involve Internet hacking. Creating a separate category would facilitate the prosecution of such crimes in a consistent manner and would act as a deterrent for those who intend to hack computers with malintent.

I will describe the seriousness and the losses that can be caused by such hacking. Recent events show how much money can be lost because of hacking or computer viruses. Not long ago egghead.com was attacked and three million credit card numbers were stolen.

Last February, a 16 year old boy from Quebec, known as mafia boy, was charged with conducting a denial of service attack on the world's leading Internet sites, like amazon.com, e-bay, CNN, yahoo and e*trade. The high tech crime spree prompted an FBI investigation. The mafia boy is facing a maximum of two years in custody. These attacks were estimated to have cost the firms $1.2 billion U.S. based on lost revenue, loss in market capitalization and dollars spent upgrading security systems.

In the first quarter of 2000, the FBI reported that 800,000 credit card numbers were stolen over the Internet in three incidents. In May 2000, the “I love you” virus wreaked havoc worldwide and caused an estimated $10 billion in losses.

In December 2000, the University of Washington Hospital had a website security issue, making all its confidential patient information available on the web for three days.

Those are some of the examples that come to light regarding Internet hacking.

International airports, banks, governments, defence departments, science labs and power companies are all vulnerable to computer hackers and viruses. Organized crime is a serious threat in this century. What would happen if a hacker managed to trigger missiles? Because they are computer based, someone could hack into the computer, fool around and trigger a missile. This kind of threat must be taken seriously, not only in Canada but internationally.

Internet use has increased markedly in the past five years. Many homes are logged on to the Internet. Young people are at the cutting edge of our computer oriented society. We must impress on our younger generations the serious nature of tampering or playing with this technology.

I will now talk about liability, responsibility and lack of protection in this case. Security flaws sometimes may not be detectable. When a technology is created sometimes the security flaws cannot be detected because they may be in a particular area or be service oriented. If unethical people find the flaw, they could exploit it for personal or criminal gains.

The software companies are not liable for security flaws in their products since they have liability clauses in their agreements. Consumers are not protected by industry standards or government regulations. There is no guarantee of security being offered for Internet use.

These kinds of crimes affect our livelihood, our lives and invade our privacy. They threaten the e-commerce worldwide.

The Canadian centre for information technology security was founded by the University of British Columbia as well as the justice institute of B.C. to lead the way in information security. It is an effort in the right direction but such efforts need the support of government and law enforcement agencies. There needs to be a law with teeth in this regard.

The problem is serious as peace is threatened. International co-operation is imperative. There may be a disruption in our international security if the issue is not handled properly.

There has been no Liberal action on the issue. The weak Liberal government that lacks vision is not doing anything to address the situation. It is a serious matter. Rather than making the motion votable, the Liberals have ignored it. I do not know whether they will even speak to the motion.

The Liberals should have taken their cue from my colleague and stolen his motion so that Canadians could be protected from hackers. There should be a bill coming from the government, but the weak Liberal government that lacks vision has done nothing on the issue so far. Leadership is needed on the issue and it is not coming from the Liberal government. That is why my colleague has introduced the forward thinking motion we are debating today.

Prevention is always better than cure. Preventive measures such as criminal sanctions need to be adopted. There should be a specific reference in the criminal code for offences related to Internet sabotage or hacking. We are living in a computer age and it is necessary to have laws in statutes that reflect that. The debate should wake up members opposite. I urge all members of the House to support Motion No. 80.

It is a common sense motion. Motion No. 80 requests that the criminal code be changed to include a section on offences that would allow police to lay charges against any person or persons who deliberately export a computer virus or engage in any activity designed to disrupt e-commerce and business in Canada.

All members are asked to support the motion so that we can take the right action at the right time and prevent mishappenings in the future.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

12:50 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, I will participate in the debate on behalf of our justice critic, the member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, and present our party's position on the motion. We see it as a justice issue. The motion reads:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should immediately amend the Criminal Code to create a separate category of offences and punishments for computer hackers and persons who wilfully or maliciously export computer viruses, both of whose activities disrupt the normal conduct of electronic business in Canada.

In recent years we have heard of the love bug virus and the Anna Kournikova virus. The latter was sent to the member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough and to me from a former high school chum, Mike Wells. We make it a point to address issues of this nature to rid us of the capacity for hackers like Mike Wells to contaminate personal computers.

In today's computer age some have immortalized people like mafia boy in the same manner in which the public immortalized Al Capone in the 1930s. These computer hackers have not killed anyone, but like Capone these immortalized computer hackers are nothing more than common criminals.

The current criminal code is adequate to deal with computer hackers. It covers mischief in relation to data in subsections 430(1.1) and 430(5). A hacker is liable to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or punishable on summary conviction. It also includes references to the unauthorized use of a computer where a hacker is liable to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or punishable on summary conviction.

Given the fact that the world is becoming increasingly wired, the antics of computer hackers and the creation of viruses have become a serious threat to some of the most powerful companies in the world. It has been a real threat to businesses and governments around the world.

Families and individuals who store valuable personal information, priceless family photos, et cetera, on their hard drives can have these personal records taken from them, lost for perpetuity, through the commission of a thoughtless and callous crime committed by a computer hacker.

The problem is that society has not treated the problem seriously. Many people still consider such actions to be a practical joke. We take it cavalierly and as such we have not created any deterrent.

Many hackers are teenagers, as in the case of mafia boy, who think it is a prank. The creation of a separate offence would send the message to society that computer hacking is irresponsible and causes serious harm. Those who cause such problems should be held properly accountable.

On behalf of the learned member, our justice critic and the House leader for the Progressive Conservative Party, the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, it is my pleasure to enter these remarks into debate this afternoon.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

12:55 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rahim Jaffer Canadian Alliance Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to stand in this place on a Friday afternoon to speak to the motion. There is always such excitement in this place on Friday afternoons that it is a real pleasure to be able to share that with all my colleagues.

I congratulate the hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt who in his wisdom saw the increase in the amount of Internet trade that takes place in Canada and around in the world. In trying to facilitate that sort of trade and growth he has introduced a private member's motion which would require the government to amend the criminal code to create a separate category of offences and punishment for persons found guilty of wilfully disrupting the conduct of electronic business.

The motive of the motion is definitely in good standing. There needs to be some concern when it comes to security and protection of information, protection of privacy and protection of very important documents as they travel across the Internet, particularly as Internet trade continues to increase. Yet as my colleague said earlier, the criminal code, law enforcement agencies and the courts are not properly equipped to lay criminal charges and prosecute matters that involve the Internet. Creating a separate category would facilitate the prosecution of such crimes in a consistent manner.

It gives us the chance to talk about the issue and at least evaluate it to see what can be done to improve the measures of security around Internet trade.

Most of my colleagues would remember from the last parliament a landmark bill that was passed. Bill C-6, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, dealt with electronic commerce and specifically private protection of information. I was fortunate enough to work on that bill because I was a member of the industry committee.

There was a lot of good work in that bill which laid a foundation, with help from all parties in the House to move it forward. However, the issue that still needs to be addressed is the one my hon. colleague from Saskatoon—Humboldt brings up today. That is the issue of security and the measures that are needed in order to be able to lay fraud charges against people who are abusing the Internet or abusing e-commerce or doing anything else that may arise from wilful wrongdoings.

Bill C-6 initially created a legal and regulatory framework for electronic commerce by introducing measures to protect personal information in the private sector, creating an electronic alternative for doing business with the federal government, and clarifying how the courts assess the reliability of electronic records used as evidence.

The framework of the bill obviously was suited to putting a mandate on the future growth of electronic commerce in the country. However, again the area that I think was a bit weak, which we talked about—and I believe the government said it planned to work on that area—was the area of security.

What was supposed to be developed in that bill, which I think also touches on this private member's motion, was the idea of improving the security of electronic signatures through the use of encryption. That was going to be part of the bill. I know there is still an effort going on to develop that, but ultimately we would like to see it brought in sooner than later.

The private member's motion today at least addresses that to some extent. It opens up that debate, not only to look at the criminal aspects of what can be done to make sure we try to deter illegal activity within Internet commerce, but as well to look at ways within the framework of the legislation the House has already produced to increase security through forms of encryption or other forms of security currently on the Internet, perhaps without even looking at going down through the criminal side, as my colleague suggested. That at least gives us the opportunity to be able to debate it.

Bill C-6 also went beyond the scope of electronic commerce in that it created a legal and regulatory framework to be applied to the commercial use of sensitive and private information in all areas of business. During that debate there was much concern from people in health care, areas of commerce, small businesses and obviously consumers. Consumers are one of the most important aspects of Internet commerce. They want to make sure their information is protected if they are doing transactions over this new medium, the Internet. Their information, whether it be financial records, Visa numbers or whatever, is being submitted and can be accessed almost anywhere, especially, as my colleague mentioned, by hackers or by others trying to do wrong on the Internet.

There is no doubt about it. This is a concern to many Canadians and we need to address what we can do to deter criminal activity on this new medium, which increasingly the majority of Canadians will be using. We need to address how we can do it.

There is one thing I encourage my hon. colleague to consider, especially as we continue to deliberate on his motion. Hopefully the motion will continue on its way and maybe even get to committee so we can make amendments to it. We should look at ways to continue to work on the area of security through encryption. That is something that is within the mandate of the government and the House. We can look at ways to improve that legislation, as we talked about prior to it passing in the House and receiving royal assent earlier this year. Also, we can look at ways to see how that can be co-operatively strengthened on the criminal code aspects.

Based on my hon. colleague's comments when he made reference to the RCMP and a few other police organizations, there is no doubt that they are feeling left out in the cold in regard to doing their part in strengthening the security around Internet transactions. They need to be able to prosecute and lay criminal charges against people who disrupt e-commerce business in Canada.

There is obviously a reason to debate this. There is a reason to strengthen what we have done already in the House. Hopefully we will keep strengthening the ability of Canadian consumers to use the e-commerce medium and to be able to trust it. We need to work in a voluntary and co-operative way with industry, because there are a lot of great innovations happening out there that do increase security on the Internet. I believe there are many things we can do.

I will take a moment to once again congratulate the member for Saskatoon—Humboldt, who I think brings a very important motion to the House to at least begin the debate on how we can continue to improve the medium of electronic commerce in the country.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

1:05 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Keith Martin Canadian Alliance Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I add my chorus of congratulations to those for my colleague from Saskatoon—Humboldt for his foresight in bringing the motion to the floor of the House. We know the issue has been raised before. It has been dealt with by the banks, by the police and by a wide variety of individuals across the country, including the Minister of Justice, who has shown great interest in it. I can only ask her at the outset of my comments to please work with the member to address the issue.

As has been articulated, the Internet has exploded into our lives. It truly has been an explosion. It is interesting to note that it took 25 years for cable television to reach 10 million people and it has taken only 5 years for the Internet to reach 10 million people.

With those growing numbers in terms of users, we have seen an explosion in criminal opportunities. We have heard about the opportunities for money laundering and computer hacking, which not only compromise economies and businesses but can also have a profound impact on personal lives with respect to any health care data that is shared. It can also have a devastating effect on security issues.

We have seen some very frightening examples of individuals in other countries hacking into security systems. These security systems control and involve missiles and they control other defence capabilities that can obviously have a profound impact on the country or countries and, indeed, on international security at large.

Therefore we need to have some kind of rules based mechanism and some laws with which we can identify problems with respect to security within our Internet e-commerce, problems such as we have today, and with which we can also develop tools to go after the people who have shown a wilful disdain for the system and for individuals.

We know that computer networks have an increasing importance in our lives. We need to develop some rules to deal with this because of the profound impact that people hacking into the computers can have. My colleagues have actually articulated that already.

I draw attention to the need to involve various partners. I know the justice minister and my colleague are interested in this. There is a need to involve police officers, banks and government and bring them together to develop a rules based system which will allow us to go after the money launderers, the people who are using credit cards illegally and the people who are shunting large sums of money from their criminal actions into other avenues that are legal. I think it is the biggest challenge with respect to organized crime.

Some people see Hell's Angels individuals with their leathers and their hogs and think of them as unintelligent, brutal killers who terrorize individuals. Certainly some of them are, but a much larger percentage of them are individuals with $1,500 Armani suits who are highly intelligent business thugs using the law against us and hiding behind the law when it suits them.

One of the best things our country can do is follow on the example of my colleague, follow on the interests of the justice minister and have a round table with representatives of banks, law enforcement officers, government representatives and members to pull together a series of bills that will enable us to go after these people on the basis of their money. We have to find ways of tracking the money. When we track the money, we have a way of dealing with the most vulnerable aspect of organized criminals.

Of course it is indeed a balance. We have to balance the issue of privacy of individuals and companies with the greater need to enable law enforcement officers to apprehend and prosecute individuals who are using the Internet and using banking systems in this illegal way. Historically the banks have had a voluntary system of transaction reporting, whereby bank managers are asked to report large transactions if they are somewhat suspect.

Even the banks recognize that this is not working very well. They clearly recognize their internal checking mechanisms are not working well. Organized crime knows that and is manipulating the system to its advantage.

As a country we are known as a major conduit of illegal funds, a place where it is very easy to launder funds. We need to change that. I know there is great political will in the House and across the country to do that.

My colleague from Saskatoon—Humboldt and other members of the House are demonstrating an interest, a knowledge and an expertise in this area that would allow Canadians to feel a lot safer and secure with respect to their funds and resources.

It is not only that. There are many other issues with which we have to deal. We spoke about the illegal use of the Internet for pornography, specifically child pornography. This is an issue that is very difficult to deal with, but as a nation we must work with our partners. The Internet is international. We have to influence and suggest solutions in an international sphere. Once we get our house in order, we can actually bring these solutions to the international forum.

I believe in 1998 the Organization of American States signed a declaration of principles. This was a series of recommendations which the representatives were going to take back to their countries. The declaration was intended to bring us together in dealing with Internet crime and money laundering. I have not heard anything in the House to date on that. It would be very encouraging for the minister to bring this to the floor of the House. By working with like-minded colleagues, such as the member for Saskatoon—Humboldt and others, we could pull together a good bill that would address these issues.

This is a new issue. It is an important and pertinent issue to Canadians because of the vast exponential expansion of the Internet and the impact it has on our society. The potential is there for individuals to hack into systems and use the information for their own criminal intent.

I encourage members of the House to support my colleague's motion. It is a good motion that will help Canadians. We look forward to a positive response from the minister on this.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

1:10 p.m.

Erie—Lincoln Ontario

Liberal

John Maloney LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to Motion No. 80. I would thank the hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt for raising an issue of national and international importance.

Issues relating to cyber-crime, such as hacking and malicious virus dissemination, have been widely reported over recent months and has caused government and industry and the public to turn their attention to these matters.

The government shares concerns related to issues surrounding cyber-crime. However, it is important to find out that our concerns are related to the proliferation of such activity and not about our ability to prosecute such offenders as we have laws that address the problem on the books already.

Although the Minister of Justice agrees with the principle of the motion, she cannot support it as presented. The simple answer or reason is that our current criminal code provisions already criminalize this type of behaviour.

A short 10 years ago the Internet was in its commercial infancy. Now the expansion of the Internet and the technologies associated with it in a very real manner have revolutionized our world. The Internet has changed the way we communicate with one another, the way we share information and the way we relate to each other. Computer networks and the Internet in particular have managed to shrink our vast world.

Today's technology allows us to share information with people in other countries and on other continents with minimal expense, but the Internet has also created corresponding opportunities for criminals.

Like everyone else, criminals have embraced high technology to further their goals. We are becoming increasingly aware of the threats posed by individuals using the Internet. Hate literature and child pornography can be disseminated easily. Even traditional crimes such as fraud and forgery can now be committed with the aid of the Internet.

Hackers, which are addressed in the member's motion, can wreak havoc on our economic infrastructure by bringing down critical computer and communications systems. Serious havoc can even result from a prank.

There have been incidents where teenagers either unknowingly or fully understanding the implications of their actions have hacked into sensitive websites. The potential damage from a concerted attack by cyber-terrorists on a country's critical infrastructure could be catastrophic. This is what makes this type of behaviour so troubling.

That being said, Canadians are fully protected from and equipped to deal with the conduct described in the member's motion. In fact laws covering this type of behaviour have been on our books for over 15 years. In 1985 parliament created a separate category of offences for hackers, now section 342.1 of the criminal code. This provision makes it illegal for any person to obtain unauthorized access to a computer service. Parliament at the time recognized that this could be a serious crime, and it is therefore punishable with a maximum term of imprisonment of 10 years.

With respect to persons knowingly and maliciously disseminating computer viruses, parliament also made amendments in 1985 to the crime of mischief which is also punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of 10 years. If actual danger to life is caused the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

These 1985 amendments make it a crime to wilfully tamper with computer data. This includes conduct such as obstructing or interfering with the lawful use of computer data or a computer system. Additionally the traditional laws of attempt, conspiracy and aiding and abetting will apply to these offences.

It is clear that our current laws already criminalize the malicious dissemination of computer viruses that cause harm, as well as attempts and other forms of complicity in such crimes. Law enforcement has and will continue to use these provisions successfully as in the recent mafia boy case, where the accused was charged with 64 counts of hacking and mischief.

As stated earlier we are appreciative of the member's motion. However the motion may give the impression that Canada is not prepared or equipped legally to deal with such crimes. This is obviously not correct.

In a recent independent international study on the readiness of national laws to deal with cyber-crime, McConnell International found that Canada's cyber-crime laws are among the world's strongest.

Although Canada is a world leader in this regard, the government is committed to ensuring that our laws speak to our changing technological environment, while having due regard for fundamental human rights.

Canada is an active participant in many international fora which are currently studying both the effects and solutions to the issues raised by cyber-crime. These include among others the G-8, the Council of Europe, the United Nations, the Commonwealth Secretariat, OECD and the Organization of American States.

As observers to the Council of Europe, Canadian delegates have been integral in negotiating a draft convention on cyber-crime that will be adopted later this year and that will stand as a benchmark for international instruments in this area. At the G-8 Canada continues its leadership role on cyber-crime issues and is looking forward to its presidency in the year 2002.

In summary, the existing provisions of the criminal code protect Canadians fully against those who would use technologies such as the Internet for the criminal purposes outlined in the motion. The government, in co-operation with its international partners, the law enforcement industry, provinces, territories and civil liberties groups, is working to ensure that the tools and laws it employs are relevant and appropriate in today's fast paced environment.

In response to this international work, Canada is reviewing its laws to ensure that Canada's laws remain up to date and that Canada remains a world leader in this area.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carole-Marie Allard Liberal Laval East, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to take part in the debate on this motion. I will not be supporting the motion because, in my opinion, the criminal code provisions already deal with the offences referred to in the motion.

As a matter of fact, a separate category of offences dealing with hackers was created in 1985 under subsection 342.1 and provisions dealing with mischief under subsection 430.1 specifically cover the transmission of computer viruses.

Even though no amendment is necessary as a result of this motion, I believe it is reasonable to conclude that the Department of Justice reviews its acts on an ongoing basis to ensure they are up to date.

Earlier my opposition colleague asked that we show leadership. I believe the government has shown leadership in the past and again yesterday when it announced new bold measures and the allocation of new money to fight organized crime.

The government was following up on a commitment made in the throne speech. This commitment reflected the work of the House of Commons subcommittee on organized crime and was in response to a number of issues raised by the federal, provincial and territorial justice ministers at their last meeting, in September 2000.

In September 2000 ministers of justice declared organized crime a national priority to be dealt with at all levels through a multidisciplinary approach.

The ministers have agreed to a national program on organized crime, with a very strict timetable in four areas, including national and regional co-ordination, research and analysis, legislative and regulatory instruments, as well as communications and public education.

The criminal code is a national statute that is very important to keep the peace in this country. Therefore, we must amend it with caution. As my colleague was saying, since 1997 the government has not hesitated to amend it when necessary. In fact, it amended it eight times.

It did not hesitate to amend it to give increased powers to police officers with regard to search and to impose restrictions on release on bail. It did not hesitate to amend it to enact provisions dealing with organized crime, including creating a new offence that makes participation in the illegal activities of a criminal organization an indictable offence punishable by up to 14 years in prison.

That particular piece of legislation broadened the investigative powers of police officers, by making it easier, for example, for law enforcement agencies to use electronic surveillance. It also increased public protection by reversing the burden of proof for a person accused of an organized crime offence who is requesting bail.

This government did not hesitate to amend the criminal code to modernize Canadian anti-drug legislation. It also enacted provisions so that persons found guilty of organized crime activities would not be entitled to any sort of accelerated parole review.

In March 1999, new offences under the criminal code connected to fraudulent telemarketing were created. Canada's power to extradite fugitives and to address the problems relating to borderless crimes such as organized crime, fraudulent telemarketing and Internet fraud, was enhanced.

Last year, the government enacted proceeds of crime legislation, which made it mandatory for financial institutions and middlemen to report suspicious transactions and cross-border currency movements.

The act also created the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada to receive and administer the information provided.

More recently, in February 2001, the Minister of Immigration introduced Bill C-11, the immigration and refugee protection act. This bill proposes fines of up to $1 million, and a maximum sentence of life imprisonment for people smuggling and trafficking in human beings.

As can be seen, this government was not afraid to adopt measures to strengthen these laws, to strengthen the ability of existing agencies to fight organized crime. In 1997, 13 joint integrated proceeds of crimes units were created. In 1999, $115 million went to the RCMP to modernize the Canadian Police Information Centre.

In June 1999, the RCMP received $15 million to fight organized crime at the three major international airports: Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

Again in 1999, we invested an additional $78 million in an anti-contraband initiative to provide resources to the RCMP, the federal Department of Justice and the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, to help these organizations target contraband and distribution networks at Canada's border.

In budget 2000, an amount of $584 million was allocated to the RCMP, over a three year period. I should also point out that our government passed the Witness Protection Act in 1996. Under that legislation, a formal national program was set up to help protect people who risk their lives to help the police in its investigations.

Incidentally, the new measures announced yesterday by the Minister of Justice and the Solicitor General of Canada provide that an additional $200 million will be allocated to the fight against organized crime. The amendments to the criminal code are major ones.

We are proposing to create three new types of offences and impose harsh penalties on those who participate, in various degrees, in gang activities; to improve the protection of people in the judicial system against acts of intimidation against them and their families; to streamline the current definition of criminal organization; to expand the powers of those involved in law enforcement activities; to confiscate the proceeds of crime, particularly the profits of criminal organizations; and to seize the goods used to commit a crime.

We are also proposing measures to establish an accountability process to protect law enforcement officers against any criminal liability when they take actions relating to an investigation or to undercover activities in a criminal organization.

Clearly, this government is taking on its responsibilities, and I am convinced that it will continue to do so whenever it identifies a need for new measures to prevent the type of crime mentioned in the official opposition's motion.

These are the reasons why I will not support the opposition's motion.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

1:25 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Art Hanger Canadian Alliance Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I commend the member for Saskatoon—Humboldt for his private member's motion, Motion No. 80, that would require the government to amend the criminal code to create a separate category of offences and punishments for people who wilfully disrupt electronic business in Canada.

Some years back, when I was a member of the Calgary police force and computers were coming into their own, there was already ample evidence that people outside the mainstream of business were hacking into sensitive files and databases. It was well known even then that hackers were plying their trade to enter into security files, sometimes within the police department or the Department of National Defence. It became a form of espionage that was sometimes difficult to protect against.

At that time, of course, like the present, there was not a lot of legislation to help investigators compile data against those who committed such activities. Without sufficient data it is difficult to prosecute hackers to the full extent of the law and thereby deter that kind of activity.

Hackers use all kinds of sophisticated means to be able to do what they do and protect themselves. Police officers trying to solve the problem must first get around all the firewalls that hackers put up.

The legislation would enable police officers to become very effective at these types of investigations. However that takes money. The federal government should recognize that because it is a global crime it can happen almost anywhere. It takes money to compile enough evidence to knock hackers down to their knees and curtail their activities.

I hope the legislation will include resources to effectively deal with the problem. I am sure the member for Saskatoon—Humboldt has thought about that.

Computer HackersPrivate Members' Business

1:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the order paper.

It being 1.30 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday, April 23, 2001, at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Orders 28 and 24.

(The House adjourned at 1.32 p.m.)