Debates of May 10th, 2001

Auberge Grand-Mère

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a mysterious outbreak of alleged forgeries in the Grand-Mère loan file at the Business Development Bank. On Monday the minister refused to say why some of those forgeries are sent to the RCMP for investigation and others are not.

My question is in regard to the general file that has been kept by the BDC, a file that under the law should be available for scrutiny by the RCMP, the information commissioner and parliament. Could the Prime Minister tell the House if any documents have been taken out of that file or if any documents have been destroyed?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the file is with the Business Development Bank. The Business Development Bank has turned the problem over to the RCMP and the RCMP is doing its job.

Parliamentarians

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as a result of the actions by the member for Scarborough Southwest, the 75% of voters who did not vote Liberal are worried.

Can the Prime Minister assure Canadians that none of them will not receive second class treatment by this government?

[The Speaker]

Judging by his preamble, I wonder if the question relates to government business. I have doubts, but the Right Hon. Prime Minister may reply.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I spoke with the member in question yesterday and this morning he has issued a statement of apology and an offer to work with the veteran in question, who has moreover already been phoned by the veterans affairs minister offering help with his case.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the pattern here is pretty obvious. Vote Liberal and you can get help from your MP. Vote Liberal and there might be money for your business. Do not vote Liberal and you are just shunted aside.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Most Canadians consider that to be patronage. Will the Prime Minister just simply stop this activity now?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, members are very diligent in work for their constituents, but I remember that about a year and a half ago in the House of Commons when we were debating the problem of the HRDC some members on the other side said it was a matter of principle for them not to help anyone get a grant from the Government of Canada. I remember that it was said by members on the other side.

In the case of the member for Scarborough Southwest, he apologized and he offered to help. The Minister of Veterans Affairs made sure that the person in question received an offer of help no later than yesterday. I am happy that the situation has been restored to normality.

Urban Affairs

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last fall the federal Liberals campaigned against municipal mergers, admitting as soon as the election was over, however, that they could do nothing about them.

In February, the Minister of Transport said that the constitution should be changed to bring it into line with the realities of urbanization in Canada. Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced the creation of a task force to develop a federal urban policy.

Since the constitution clearly states that municipal affairs are a provincial jurisdiction, how can the government justify creating this task force? Is this not yet another example of underhanded centralization?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government has an important role to play with respect to municipalities.

There is the infrastructure program, for example. We are helping the municipalities. They are very glad to have our help. We are helping them in many other areas, such as housing. Let us take the situation in Montreal. The bridges that cross the St. Lawrence River are a federal responsibility.

It is perfectly normal for us to have a role to play. Unlike the members of the Bloc Quebecois, we do not have our heads in the sand.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that they do not have their heads in the sand, but they are poking their noses into all sorts of matters that do not concern them.

The task force's mandate makes no reference to the jurisdiction of the provinces and of Quebec with respect to urban issues. As far as the federal government is concerned, its own constitution does not need to be respected.

What is the reason for Ottawa's paternalistic and disdainful attitude towards the provinces? Is it not more Canadian nation building, fuelled by the social union agreement, which allows the federal government to interfere in provincial jurisdictions where it does not belong?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are receiving letters from all the mayors in all provinces of Canada, including the mayors of Quebec, asking us to help when we can. We are pleased to do so because our concern is not with politics at the expense of people, but with helping people at all levels to the fullest extent possible.

Veterans Affairs

[Carol Skelton, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Yesterday's revelations regarding the member for Scarborough Southwest reflect a pattern we have seen from the government for quite a while now.

The transitional jobs fund was well known as a subject of political manipulation. It is clear that TJF applications in the province of Quebec were subject to vetting by local Liberal MPs. If there was not a Liberal MP, the Liberal riding associations passed out Canadians' money.

Why is it that Canadians who do not vote Liberal are considered second class citizens?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, with every MP we help, and we even helped Moose Mulligan's Pub in the riding of one of the Reform Party members who was asking the minister to give money, and in many of the Reform ridings.

We have consulted them and some of them were very happy to see the Government of Canada helping the local institutions.

[Carol Skelton, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, by directing taxpayer money only at Liberals and even denying help to an aging veteran, the government consistently demonstrates a dangerous double standard.

The Prime Minister should be embarrassed by this despicable incident. He needs to commit to removing the double standard from all aspects of government operations, including his own backbench. Will he commit to treating all Canadians—

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I do not understand how it can be for the government to respond to the actions of private members in the House. It is legitimate to put questions to the government concerning the activities of ministers, but if the question is going to the activities of another MP it seems to me it is beyond the competence of the government.

I have very serious reservations about the questions. I will allow an answer in this case, but I am warning hon. members the Chair is losing patience on this subject.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to say to the member that she was not here at that time, but everyone knows very well in the House that in Saskatchewan there was more money in the Reform's ridings than was distributed in the riding of the minister.

Unfortunately he did not get all the money in his riding because there was more in the others. The same thing happened in Alberta, so much more money in the other ridings than those of the two members from Alberta.

I want to apologize to the two ministers of Alberta that we did not give them as much money as we gave to the Reform Party, and it was the same thing in British Columbia.

Single Currency

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Thomas Courchene, the economist, testified today before the Standing Committee on Finance. Mr. Courchene expressed his support for the establishment of a single currency in America and considered it irresponsible on our part not to give thought to this issue immediately.

Is the Minister of Finance not in fact being irresponsible by refusing to give thorough consideration to a monetary union of the Americas, which could be achieved in ten years, despite him, despite Canada, and in the opinion of the Governor of the Bank of Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the eminent economist, Mr. Courchene, is entitled to his opinions. I however have repeatedly stated the position of the Government of Canada and of the Bank of Canada, namely that to protect our economy and economic growth, the Canadian dollar is clearly the currency we should adopt and keep.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, instead of continually twisting the words of the Governor of the Bank of Canada, who said that it will be inevitable in ten years' time, could the Minister of Finance demonstrate a little leadership by setting up a real special commission, which would take an in depth look at this important question, in the manner of the MacKay commission on reforming Canada's financial institutions?

It is not simply a matter of being for or against, but of being ready.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the member could explain something.

How is it that article 14 of Quebec's referendum legislation of 1995 provides clearly, and I quote “The currency having legal tender in Quebec shall remain the Canadian dollar”?

Justice

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the solicitor general told the House that escapes from our prisons were being taken seriously, but the numbers tell us a little different story. There are currently about 926 individuals who have either escaped or are unlawfully at large from all levels of our institutions.

I would like the solicitor general to turn on that bright cell door light over there and tell us just exactly how the government could possibly lose 1,000 prisoners from our prisons.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government has made a number of changes over the last seven years and the escapes from minimum security institutions have been reduced by 55% in the last seven years.

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is interesting because we just had seven more in the month of February. That is a great accomplishment.

Keith Lawrence was recaptured just recently after being on the lam for thirty years. Lawrence was living under a known alias and as a matter of fact he was living about an hour's drive from the prison from which he escaped.

I would like to ask a question of the solicitor general. What resources could the government commit to keeping these guys in prison, or maybe he would like to take on a really tough Liberal tactic and ask them to stay a little longer in prison?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure my hon. colleague, like my hon. colleague yesterday, is not trying to indicate to the House that there are a number of escapes from maximum or medium security institutions. In fact in the minimum security institutions, as I have indicated, we have cut the escapes by 55% over the last seven years and we will continue to reduce that figure.

Foreign Affairs

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Oak Ridges, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Ethiopia and Eritrea reached a formal settlement to their border war on December 12, 2000. The recent peace settlement has set the stage for a definitive resolution of the longstanding animosity between Ethiopians and Eritreans.

As part of the effort to ensure a durable peace between these countries, the United Nations agreed to deploy a peacekeeping mission known as UNMEE to the region. Would the Secretary of State for Africa give the House an update on Canada's efforts to promote peace in this region?