Debates of Sept. 18th, 2001

Terrorism

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, when information is given to any law enforcement agency of an individual organization that has broken the law, it is taken care of by the RCMP or other police forces. That is what is done. It is a security intelligence gathering agency that keeps this country a safe place to live.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today, terrorism is international in nature and in scope, but unlike war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity, terrorism is not a crime under international law.

Does the government support the idea of making terrorism an international crime and placing it under the jurisdiction of the international criminal court?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to support the creation of the international criminal court. This is one of Canada's foreign policy objectives. However, at this point, we also have an obligation to try to ensure that nations can live in safety.

For the time being, our priority is to identify the best available means of accomplishing this task.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one does not exclude the other. I ask the minister whether the government is prepared to submit this proposal to the United Nations and to lead an international campaign to give the international criminal court jurisdiction over the perpetrators of terrorist attacks.

What is required is a coalition covering all aspects, and it seems to us that this aspect is fundamental.

Will the minister give such a commitment?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we agree that it is necessary to find ways of dealing with international crimes, even crimes of terrorism.

This is perhaps a crime which is a bit more complex, and international discussions must focus on identifying the means available for implementing a system making a terrorist act a crime against humanity.

National Defence

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the solicitor general boasted in the House about putting $1.5 billion into the national security budget. What he neglected to tell Canadians was that the CSIS budget was reduced by 10% over the last four years and the RCMP budget barely increased by a paltry 4% in the same period.

I would like to ask the solicitor general, are those facts worth bragging about in the House?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said a number of times, we have put $1.5 billion into the public safety envelope. It is a lot of money, with $584 million to the RCMP. The director of CSIS has indicated quite publicly that he has the funds to do his job and to make sure with the help of the RCMP that this country remains one of the safest countries in the world to live in.

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, those are total budget dollars. The minister neglected to talk about the reduction over the last four years in CSIS.

In 1999 a special Senate committee on security and intelligence stated that Canada still remained a venue of opportunity for terrorist groups, but in that period the government saw it necessary to reduce CSIS funding, to starve the RCMP out of effectiveness and to eliminate the ports police.

How does the solicitor general defend those kinds of reductions or even have the gall to brag about it?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, all I can do is respond to my hon. colleague as I did previously.

The fact of the matter is that we did put $1.5 billion into the public safety envelope in the last budget. That is not to mention the $115 million to improve CPIC, our database that is the envy of all police forces around the world, and millions and millions of dollars other than that.

We have made sure and will continue to make sure that this is one of the safest countries in the world.

Air Safety

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, recent revelations on the quality of airport security prompted the minister to state yesterday that there was nothing scandalous about an 18% failure rate, and that in fact this was good news.

Will the minister acknowledge that, given the recent events in New York City, an 18% security failure rate is unacceptable and can he tell us what measures he plans to take to remedy this totally unacceptable situation?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, naturally we feel we must attain a 100% success rate. We carry out yearly tests and we have noted certain faults. Where faults were identified, we have taken very strict measures with the employees.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while there is a debate going on in the House on terrorism and measures to eradicate it, we draw the line at being told by a minister that an 18% security failure rate is acceptable.

Will the minister admit that the least one could expect of a responsible minister would be that he is trying to get the figure close to 0% and not that he is satisfied with 18%?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member has it wrong. The fact is that these tests are conducted on an ongoing basis. The results to which he refers for the year ending last May were analyzed.

People are dealt with at the time. They are removed from their posts.

We toughened up measures even before September 11. As a result of what happened unfortunately on September 11 we made our screening progress even more rigorous as we did with all other manner of security at airports.

Terrorism

[Chuck Cadman, Canadian Alliance, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government has overlooked the enormous costs incurred by Canadian families in finding their loved ones still missing in the aftermath of last week's terrorist attacks.

Ontario has committed up to $3 million in support of such families. If it were not for this help and the Ontario victims assistance team they would be left to struggle on their own. What about the families who do not come from Ontario?

I ask the Prime Minister, what financial support has his government offered to the families of Canadian victims?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first let me respond to the question by informing the hon. member that we have had outstanding efforts on behalf of consular workers in New York and elsewhere 24 hours a day since this tragedy. They fielded over 13,000 telephone calls from Canadians with a variety of expressions of concern.

To this point in time we have taken the necessary steps to assist Canadians who have not been able to locate their loved ones. At the moment it does not appear useful or necessary for them to travel to New York, but we will remain in close contact with them as the situation develops further.

[Chuck Cadman, Canadian Alliance, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the answer but this concerns what it is costing families to find their victims in this rubble.

I ask the question again. Is the government prepared, if the need arises, to provide any kind of financial support to the families of the Canadian victims?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, let me say first that we have taken the steps necessary to ensure that both the chief coroner of Ontario as well as potential assistance from other provincial governments are able to arrive on the ground in New York to provide assistance.

Second, of course we will consider costs that may be incurred but at the moment it is not clear what the nature of those costs would be given that we are advising people at this moment that there is really nothing they can do, unfortunately, by going to New York City.

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it has been eight days since the horrific terrorist attack against the United States and I have a question for the solicitor general.

There is a question on the minds of many citizens in Canada as to whether or not there was a Canadian connection with regard to this act. We have all seen media reports on the subject. Most recently, in fact today, in the National Post , there is a report that the FBI is investigating an individual who recently lived in Canada.

Could the minister provide any information to Canadian citizens concerning this?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Mississauga West for his concern and I can assure him that this investigation continues to be a top priority for the RCMP and CSIS.

Regarding this news article, it was about Ontario, California instead of Ontario, Canada.

I can also tell my hon. colleague that at this point we still have no evidence that there is a Canadian connection.

Airline Safety

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the transport minister.

Canadian public at the airports require more competence from the government that they are getting now. Customs officers receive a full year of intensive training. Pre-flight screening officers receive 20 hours of training. Air Canada and other airlines have asked the federal government to accept full cost, full control and full training for pre-boarding screening officers throughout the entire country.

Will the government accept that recommendation and look into that?

Also, will the government at the logistics of examining and X-raying all baggage in cargo going onto an aircraft on domestic flights and transborder flights within the country?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the focus really should not be on who is doing the actual screening but on the safety measures that we have in place, the oversight. That oversight is particularly rigorous. It always has been. We conduct tests on an ongoing basis to ensure that. Since last Tuesday we have brought into place other measures. Some of the suggestions of the hon. member are being examined throughout these last few days.

I do not rule out any changes to improve security and to give Canadians the kind of confidence they want in the airline system.

[Bev Desjarlais, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the recent terrorist attack certainly highlighted weaknesses in our nation's airport security and the government does appear to be failing to accept the full responsibility.

Could the minister tell the House if Transport Canada is considering increased use of security cameras, X-ray and sniffer dog examination of all baggage, better security awareness training for airport workers and improved on board security measures which many view as more than locking the cockpit door?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I have already stated that we are looking at every single measure that will enhance security for the travelling public, whether it is at the airport, whether it is on air side operations or whether it is on aircraft.

Terrorism

[Inky Mark, Canadian Alliance, Dauphin—Swan River, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is well known for housing terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA and the Tamil tigers. Now that we have all witnessed the devastation created by the terrorist act in the United States, will the government finally move to have all terrorist activities in Canada halted and try these terrorists and their sympathizers in Canadian courts?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, as I have already pointed out the government has in place through the criminal code a wide range of provisions and offences that can deal with many terrorist activities.

In addition to that, we intend to move quickly and effectively to implement the remaining two UN conventions on terrorism, in particular the convention that suppresses terrorist financing. I think the hon. member will find that our legal infrastructure to deal with terrorist acts is among the very toughest in the world.