Madam Speaker, we cannot discuss the issue of young offenders without paying tribute to the member for Berthier—Montcalm.
The member for Berthier—Montcalm is extremely bright. He attended law school here, at the University of Ottawa, in the early 1980s. He spent part of his life studying law. He practiced law not as a crown attorney but in a private firm.
I think he established some kind of precedent because, if one adds up all the speeches, all the hours and all the minutes he spent putting forward his ideas, one will see that he spent nearly 25 hours in committee trying to convince both government and opposition members that the Quebec model is the right one.
We are not here this afternoon to debate personality issues. That is not what we want to discuss. We want to discuss two opposing philosophies with regard to dealing with young offenders.
I will have an opportunity to come back to that later in the time I have left, but the fact remains—and I know that the member for Louis-Hébert will share my opinion on the substance of the matter, if not on my presentation of it—that Quebec has a model that has been in place now for a certain number of years. There may be disagreement on the merits of this model: some view it as being good, others see it as bad.
We, in the Bloc Québécois, in addition to a broad coalition of stakeholders that are not politically inclined, have given our support to the member for Berthier—Montcalm's campaign.
I would like to pay tribute to the member for Berthier—Montcalm who has been our critic on this issue and who has been our voice in this debate. As members, we have a case to argue in this debate. When we rise in the House, when were speak publicly beyond these walls, we do so with the conviction of the ideas that we defend.
On this issue, the Bloc Québécois has argued that our premise be accepted, which is that there are indeed consequences when a young person who is 12, 13 or 14 years old is judged by a criminal justice system designed for adults.
In no way did the member for Berthier—Montcalm infer that those who are found guilty of extortion or violent crime should not be punished. During the course of the debate, I heard this from many people. Of course, it would be very irresponsible to lead people to believe that people who have committed violent crimes, extremely serious crimes, should go unpunished. For example, over the holidays, we read in the papers and saw on television that young people were responsible for terrible physical attacks on seniors.
We believe that the analysis of the criminal justice system for adults cannot be based on the same premise. When a person is 23, 24 or 25 years old, they are in a completely different situation. They have made choices in life, they have a degree of maturity. Often, they have started a family, and they no longer live with their parents. The considerations are not at all the same.
But before developing this point, I would like to debunk the myth that young people are getting increasingly violent. Indeed, I would like to debunk the first myth, that we are living in an increasingly violent society in general.
These ways of analysing the phenomena must be based on a certain number of statistics. Otherwise, what we are obviously relying on is common sense, and common sense does not necessarily equate with reality. Sometimes, there have to be longitudinal studies, and people need to compile statistics so that we can form a picture.
Canada happens to have the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics. I know this centre well. For one year, on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, with the member for Longueuil and the member for Saint-Hubert, I chaired a working group on street prostitution, not the sort of prostitution one finds in hotels with escorts, which is more upscale. During that time, I met people who work at the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics. These people collect data, which they get from Statistics Canada's data banks.
On the strength of the statistics we receive, we can say that the number of youths charged has dropped. That was what I was driving at with my question earlier. One can rise in the House of Commons and start from the premise that we must get tougher with young offenders, and God knows it is never nice for a family to have a young offender.
Furthermore we could ask ourselves the question. Let us do that. There are 301 MPs. Perhaps some of us might have had the potential to become delinquents. I come from Hochelaga—Maisonneuve. I went to the public schools in my neighbourhood and hung around with young people—at the time, I too was part of this age group—who were incarcerated. Why do some people in life become delinquents, while others do not? It is an interesting question.
You yourself, Madam Speaker, could perhaps have been a delinquent and gone down paths that were not those your parents had in mind for you. But links have been established between delinquency and poverty, between delinquency and lack of self-esteem, between poverty and the lack of a place in society. When one is 12, 13 or 14 years old and one decides to step out of the legal framework in which one lives, it is often in very direct proportion to the absence of hope and a future that we see for ourselves. But that is another debate and I will not get into it.
I would like to recall, on the basis of statistics that are available from the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, that between 1991 and 1997—this is therefore quite recent, since it takes about five years for statistics to be included, and that also holds true for the 10 year statistics made in Canada—the indictment rate for youth dropped by 23%. Not only has it dropped by 23%, but we found that when young people are charged, it is often and significantly with offences that have nothing to do with homicides or offences against the person. Young people are often charged with property offences, shoplifting or breaking and entering. Of course, we can make a connection between these offences.
I would like to digress for a moment. Generally speaking, the types of crime that are on the rise are smuggling crimes. For example, nowadays in Canada, there is a major smuggling network as far as automobiles and auto parts, furs, jewels and, of course, drugs are concerned. This is nothing new. It has been that way for at least three decades.
It is therefore a myth to think that we are living in a society that is getting increasingly violent, and it certainly is a myth to think that we are living in a society where young people are increasingly violent and are charged more often.
I see here another interesting statistic to help us better understand the phenomenon.
In 1997, the national crime rate observed by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police went down for the sixth consecutive year. I believe it is important not to lose track of this factual information. This obviously does not mean that everything is hunky dory.
Again, as the member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, I often get representations from groups arguing that there is still a problem with, for instance, street gangs. We have a problem in Montreal with street gangs. I am sure that my colleague, the hon. member for Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, shares my analysis of the situation.
There are young people who form gangs. I will give an example. In Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, two years ago in March, a new 14 screen movie theatre complex called Star Cité opened up on Viau Street near the Olympic stadium. I do not know if some of the members here happen to go to the movies on occasion. This theatre complex required a $25 million investment. For the most part, the money came from English Canada. This complex is a meeting point for gangs.
Let me clarify where it is located. It is near the Biodôme and the Viau metro station. The police is often called there because there is a group of young people, well known to the police, who, unfortunately, scare people, in particular those heading for the metro. However, this is an isolated case in my neighbourhood. Hochelaga—Maisonneuve cannot be depicted only in terms of juvenile delinquency, but the problem does exist.
Let us take note of the fact that this problem does exist. We must ask ourselves what kind of laws and measures are more likely to help us prevent these young people from heading down such a dangerous path.
Before getting into the substance of my remarks, I would like to make the connection with organized crime. Of course, when one talks about crime, there are different levels. Juvenile delinquency is not on the same level as large scale organized crime, such as the Hell's Angels are involved in.
Some members will tell me that sometimes there are people who move upwards. There is a hierarchy, and it may happen that a member of a street gang ends up in a position of major responsibility in criminal organizations. This is true, but it is still a rather rare occurrence.
I take this opportunity to pay tribute to a Quebec filmmaker who produced a film combining anthropological and sociological considerations. The film is entitled Hochelaga . I do not know if any members in the House have seen it. Hochelaga is the work of a Quebec filmmaker. The film was not shot in Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, but it had an anthropological perspective on organized crime.
This film shows that, when one joins a gang, there is a whole ritual. This is not insignificant. I use this term, but I am well aware that it has to be seriously qualified. There is a whole ritual concerning job opportunities, promotion, making one's place in such a group, as well as the idea of getting rich quickly. Youth who join gangs, particularly street gangs, and who are more interested in well known groups because of their connection to organized crime, do so with the intention of getting rich.
I arranged a viewing of this film with the manager of Star Cité, Stéphane St-Jean. This viewing was for people in youth centres—we all have them in our ridings--youth who live in the Auberge jeunesse du Carrefour—
