Debates of Oct. 3rd, 2002

Resumption of debate on Address in Reply

[An hon. member]

You will never retire.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

One of my colleagues has said that I will never retire. Actually, I will. I joined the over 50 club last year, so seniors issues have become a pressing priority for me. Make no mistake: Canada's economic growth and continued prosperity depends fundamentally on increasing the skills of our people, of all Canadians. Productivity is now built not on physical force or sweat labour, but on creativity, diversity and knowledge.

The talents and abilities that Canadian workers will bring to the job is what is going to make our Canadian companies more competitive globally. Those skills are also key to creating our own opportunities. Those skills will enable us in the future to overcome the impacts of layoffs, avert unemployment or improve our employment prospects as the economy changes.

Skills are important to people who are falling behind, in particular members of our visible minority communities, our immigrant population and our aboriginal people. Too many are seriously disadvantaged already in our labour force. The government has a commitment to address that challenge within the global challenge of a skills and knowledge based policy, program, or legislation.

Last February the government launched Knowledge Matters: Skills and Learning for Canadians, which is the human resources side of our Canadian innovation strategy. Knowledge Matters outlines the skills challenges Canada faces, sets out the government's commitment and proposes national goals and milestones. It details what we must do to ensure equality of opportunity and economic innovation to build a more competitive economy and a stronger society. It underscores that skills and learning must be a national effort.

All segments of society have a part to play. All segments of society have a right to earn and share in the benefits of that agenda. A learning society has to begin in early childhood making sure our children get the best start in life. As well, the school years have come to mean much more than simply high school completion. In the future, post-secondary learning and credentials will be essential but it will not end there. It will not end with a diploma, a certificate or a set of journeyman papers. It will need to continue throughout our working life, no matter what our current credentials or job descriptions are.

As well, our workforce is aging rapidly at the same time that we face rising skill requirements and skill shortages. As a result, adults who are already in the workforce will face and are facing challenges to their competency and their ability to be productive. We must provide the opportunities for them to learn while they earn. Workplaces need to join forces with formal learning institutions and with communities to provide seamless, connected, lifelong learning. We as a government have to provide the tools to allow them to do so.

It is with quite a bit of pride that I point to some solid directions in the Speech from the Throne that will help make this vision a reality and move Canada's innovation strategy forward. For instance, there will be a national summit on innovation and learning this fall. We have pledged to create the skills and learning architecture Canada needs. We will promote workplace learning and report to Canadians on what is working and what is not working. We will also refocus the youth employment strategy to boost opportunities for work and learning for people with disabilities. We will work with the provinces to remove barriers to participation in work and learning for people with disabilities and others.

There is a whole plethora of measures which will assist the government in implementing the innovation strategy, specifically the skills and knowledge matters agenda. I want to conclude by saying it is very important that the policy include and target specifically our visible minority communities, our immigrant population, aboriginals and disabled persons and that we address the issue of seniors in the workplace. That is crucial.

[Dick Harris, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member talk about how the government sets national priorities in the management of this country. She talked about unemployment numbers being up in certain demographic areas of our country. I would like to remind her that unemployment is up significantly in the country's softwood lumber industry because it has not been addressed effectively and in a responsible fashion by the government.

The softwood lumber crisis has resulted from the historical disdain shown by the government and previous governments to people in western Canada. The resulting indifference that has been shown to this crisis is because of the historical disdain for people in western Canada in particular.

If the government talks about its concern for all people in all parts of Canada, when will it demonstrate the real concern for the parts of Canada where softwood lumber is the economic lifeline of the economy? Thousands of softwood lumber employees have been laid off because of the gross mismanagement by the government of the softwood lumber issue.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member should remember that there is a consensus among the softwood lumber industry, the unions, the workers and the provincial governments on the position that this government has taken with regard to the trade war on softwood lumber. That is the first thing. This is probably the first time consensus has existed.

I would also like to remind the member across the way that one thing is really important. Our government and our international trade minister are very sensitive to the fact that any aid package not violate international trade rules and regulations so that our challenges to the protectionist measures that have been taken in the United States do not further damage our industry.

Also, five years to achieve a historic consensus is not nothing. I know that the opposition does not wish to acknowledge that there is a consensus within Canada, within all sectors and all regions at the government level, within the unions and within the industry itself that the position our government has taken with regard to the softwood lumber trade dispute with the United States is the correct one. We will continue along that line because that is what Canadians, including the industry, have supported.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, may I say on behalf of the NDP, I swear that the hon. member does not look a day over 30. I can assure her of that.

The member talked eloquently about seniors. I do not think that anybody in the House would reject any assistance for seniors, but we are still taxing seniors who bring in only $15,000 a year. Why would seniors give taxes to the government when it turns around and wastes the money?

Here are three examples of the terrific waste of money: $100 million for two Challenger jets to which the DND said no; $900 million for a gun registry bill that was only supposed to cost $85 million, and was a complete waste of money; and a new building which is going up on Parliament Hill for $211 million when there is available space for lease all around us. Why should seniors who make minimum fixed incomes pay taxes to the government when it obviously squanders money?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for thinking I look so young.

The question the hon. member raised about seniors is really important. Notwithstanding where I was coming from in terms of my response to the throne speech and the role of seniors in our workplace, there is a necessity to provide the ongoing, continuing learning and skills agenda so that seniors, if they so wish, can continue to be active members in the labour force. The issue the member raised about poverty among seniors is one which many of my colleagues on this side of the House and I share with the member and other colleagues on that side of the House.

[Larry Spencer, Canadian Alliance, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Nanaimo--Alberni.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

Order, please. Please obey the rule that the House leaders have reached not to have any devices that make any sounds in the House.

[Larry Spencer, Canadian Alliance, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will try to do better in the future.

It is an honour to stand and reply to the Speech from the Throne. I want to come at it from a direction emphasizing the family.

The cornerstone of society in our great country of more than 31 million people is the family. I believe that government has been chipping away at this cornerstone and has fostered an environment where family and our society are eroded almost beyond repair.

It is in the family that we learn love. We do not hear that word in here very often. We hear the word tolerance but I would suggest that the family is there not to teach tolerance but in fact to teach love. Love goes far beyond a simple tolerance stature. One cannot be accused of not being tolerant as long as one has learned the essence of love.

Love by its very nature gives. It gives respect and it demands and commands respect. We would suggest that a family must be in place in order for our society to learn the very basic societal skill of love.

In the family we also learn respect: first, self-respect; second, respect for others; and then, as we learn self-respect and respect for others, we gradually, hopefully, will also learn respect for the law, the order and the structure contained within society.

The family becomes an extremely important building block. We say that so glibly so often and yet I think we find ourselves failing at the point of seeing that family strengthened. The throne speech actually contains precious little hope for Canadian families. What will we tell Canadian families when they ask what leadership the Liberal government is taking on behalf of families?

The government does not even seem to understand the need or the importance of the family. It does not even understand what marriage is or what the family is. The government has given little leadership to encourage the establishment of strong families.

A number of years ago the words were recorded that in North America certain groups devised a plan whereby they would begin to destroy the family, that they would see that the family unit was wiped out as it was then known until it was totally destroyed.

[An hon. member]

They're doing a good job.

[Larry Spencer, Canadian Alliance, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

They are doing a good job.

I am not suggesting that anyone in the House or in the government is a part of that plan or scheme except for the fact that it is such a grandiose, large thing that sometimes we get caught in these things without even knowing it.

This plan involved the educational system in North America where teachers were taught ways to bring down the family and the weaknesses or the reasons why a family should not exist. This is history and this is fact.

The government has given little leadership or no leadership to encourage married couples to stay together. It has given no leadership to encourage couples to grow their families or to provide financial benefits for spouses for instance who choose to stay at home rather than go out and work.

We would like to see the day when our governments would recognize that it is important for a parent to be a parent, for a parent to be able to stay at home and instill within those children the characteristics of love and respect, and go beyond tolerance. We find that hard to do if our families are so stressed and stretched that they have to go to work.

When one family on the block takes that responsibility very seriously and one parent chooses to stay home and raise the children, they are not recognized for that effort. We subsidize the parents next door who choose to rush off early in the morning, dump their kids at some day care, pick them up later in the day, take them back home and then have precious little time to spend with their very own children. We do not take care of families who want to take care of their own children.

Canadian families are crying out for their government to lead and not simply drift along in any direction that the wind may be blowing.

What about the great silent majority of people who are family oriented? What about the people who are struggling from day to day to make a go with families? We are doing little to help them.

The throne speech talks of fiscal success, but in my constituency I hear no talk of fiscal prosperity among struggling families. In fact, a woman came into my office last week with tears literally running to the floor. Because she was unable to care financially for her children her children were whisked away.

As the hon. member down the line mentioned a while ago, I too see seniors lamenting the fact that taxes are owed on their already meagre incomes. It is appalling that we tax these people to the level that we do.

I see people who have no money to buy groceries because the government has confiscated their GST cheques, their disability cheques or their tax refund cheques without any notice. I do not see the fiscal security that we are talking about.

We are on the verge of a spending binge to buy a lacy legacy for the Prime Minister. What do I mean by a lacy legacy? Well, lace looks good and it is very pretty but basically it is only good to look at. My mother once had a lace tablecloth that was pretty but if a glass of ice tea or milk was turned over on that tablecloth, it did not protect the table at all. It was full of holes. That lace tablecloth would not stand up to everyday wear because it was not strong. It sort of reminds me of a certain throne speech. It is pretty, it is lacy but it will never stand up to the everyday wear and tear that we have.

I have much more to say about child protection, especially when this very government, even though it talked about it in the throne speech, voted against it along with the Bloc and the NDP earlier this year. Can we trust the government to do this when it has already voted no? I do not think so.

I would like to move an amendment at this time. I move:

That the amendment be amended by adding after the word “sovereignty” the following:

“reforming Parliament to address the problem of the concentration of power in the Prime Minister's Office”.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

I will take the subamendment under advisement and the Speaker will get back to the House.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, one of the joys of being a member in the House is listening to a diversity of views. I cannot help but react to some of the comments made by my hon. colleague.

We, as members in the House, are many things. One thing I am, beside being the member of Parliament for Kitchener Centre, is the mother of four children. I take some exception when I hear my colleague opposite talk about parents being parents and being allowed to be in the home.

Would my hon. colleague comment on the fact that there are parents who wear many hats today and the role of government should be to offer the best support and the most variety of choices to parents or families who choose to have children?

As a matter of fact, the bulk of the tax cuts that this government has brought in, through good fiscal management, have been targeted at these very families with children. The government realizes that its proper role is to afford choice to families and to look at the kind of support it can provide many to people in the community who happen to be mothers or people in the workforce who are looking after aging and ailing family members.

There are a couple of inaccuracies that I would also like to correct. The hon. colleague talked about a motion that was brought forward regarding child pornography. Clearly, no member in this House would defend child pornography. I would remind my hon. colleague that the offer was made for a slight word change and he could have had unanimous consent for that motion, but his party chose to play politics with a very important issue.

[Larry Spencer, Canadian Alliance, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the politics were being played on the other side. The Liberals wanted to gut the motion of anything that said anything, and that is why we refused to go that way. We wanted some definite action and some definite steps taken, and some of those are even mentioned in the throne speech. That is why I ask whether we can really trust this government to do that, because it voted against it then. That is a fact. That is in Hansard and it cannot be changed no matter what anyone wants to argue.

Yes, variety in sustaining families is very important and that is my exact point. My family had two incomes because that was the career choice of my wife and my family. However we were careful to do things that overrode that outside involvement. Many other families do as well. All I am saying is, let us encourage the families who do choose to stay home and be that parent rather than those who choose to do as I have done.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, one of the major faults of the throne speech is the lack of real detail as to what the government's plan will be for medicare in the country. It keeps telling us to wait for the Romanow report. However there is one thing I would like to hear from the official opposition. What is its plan for the future of medicare in Canada?

[Larry Spencer, Canadian Alliance, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak for my entire party but I can tell the member a couple of things.

One plan is that we would have reliable, dependable and predictable support from the federal government in a national health care scheme, perhaps moving at least back to the level of 1993 participation or even beyond.

I think this government would be understood to be taking health care more seriously if it even attempted to move to the point where it really began, which was fifty-fifty participation. I would like to see that done, as well as encouraging the efficiency of the system throughout.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

On the subamendment of the hon. member, I declare it to be in order.

[James Lunney, Canadian Alliance, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be here today to respond on behalf of the citizens of Nanaimo--Alberni to the recent Speech from the Throne. I thank my colleague the hon. member for Regina--Lumsden--Lake Centre for sharing his time with me.

In parliamentary tradition the Speech from the Throne is supposed to serve as a landmark statement, a defining event which is purported to map out a government strategy and inspire the nation. I am afraid I will be expressing my disappointment in the way this tradition has been abused, altered and even corrupted.

When something is turned from its created purpose to such an extent that it is no longer able to fulfill what it once promised, it is corrupted and those who trusted in it are bound to be disappointed. It is a little like clouds and wind without rain during a drought or like a wet blanket on a cold night or perhaps like marriage vows that were cast aside.

The member from Regina--Lumsden just asked about the Speech from the Throne if we could really trust the government to fulfill the promises portrayed in the speech. Is it any wonder that recycled throne speech rhetoric is met with cynicism when hardly 25% of yesteryear's promises since 1993 have been realized and other promises like removing the GST have been conveniently forgotten, gone with the wind.

The Prime Minister in his remarks to the House about the throne speech stated, and I quote from Hansard :

Trade and investment have been keys to the prosperity we enjoy. We are working very hard to prepare for the next round of multilateral trade negotiations. We are also working to resolve issues such as softwood lumber.

The government had five years to prepare for the end of the softwood lumber agreement, but when March 31, 2001 arrived the government's response was to wait and see what the Americans would do. What the Americans do? They imposed a 30% combined countervail and anti-dumping duty. Now, after 18 months of wind and rhetoric we still have a tariff wall of 27.2% that is killing our forest industry.

While B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell and his forest minister go alone to the United States, the federal government response is to litigate through WTO and NAFTA, processes which will take years of appeals and delays while the government waits to see. While our industry is being brutalized, wait and see is just not good enough. It would have been helpful to hear in the Speech from the Throne that cabinet would step forward with the $400 million needed to finance the loans that would keep the mills open while this dispute continues.

While the Prime Minister considers the next round of multilateral trade talks, let me discuss realties for workers on Vancouver Island and in coastal British Columbia. On Friday, which is tomorrow, the Somass mill will close for four weeks. That will take out 200 workers. Because of the Somass closure, three other feeder mills will close: Coulson Forest Products, Franklin Forest Products and Naagard Sawmills Ltd. will close. That is another 300 jobs. This is a community of 18,000 that is being dismantled by the greed of the U.S. lumber barons.

With congressional elections pending in November, we are not likely to see action from Washington before then. While U.S. trade representative Robert Zoellick tells our premier he is willing to work with us, Canadians are left to wonder why the federal government has nothing better to offer than wait and see.

It is little comfort to my neighbours who work at the Nanoose Mill of Doman Industries. It is already closed. That is 65 workers laid off. The Chemainus Mill just laid off 45 more. On the coast 14 mills have reduced shifts or indefinite closures. That is 15,000 workers in B.C. as estimated in the Vancouver Sun on October 1.

People in my riding would like to know how the government can provide over $1 billion of Canadian taxpayer dollars through the EDC for Montreal based Bombardier to build a high speed train in the U.S. for U.S. infrastructure but turn down a $400 million package that would have kept our mills open while this dispute goes on.

It gets worse. The MacDonald mill in Fort Langley just announced last week that it will close and move south of the border to Sumas, Washington. That is 56 Canadian jobs. The tariff was costing the company $800,000 a month. That is $10 million a year. Interfor executive Duncan Davies stated that by shifting the plant to the U.S. Interfor could eliminate crippling duties and take advantage of other efficiencies.

Kyoto proponents should take note. Sumas, Washington, a tiny U.S. border town that will now receive the new mill and the Canadian jobs, is the same town where two gas powered electrical generating stations are under construction. Meanwhile, residents of the Fraser Valley are concerned that tons of particulate pollutants will blow into the smog smitten, high population Canadian side of the border.

It is clear that the Americans do not want our lumber. They want our resources, our logs and our jobs, and they are getting them. The export of B.C. timber, that is raw logs, has increased from 269,000 cubic metres to 2.9 million cubic metres since 1997 according to the minister of forests. That is a ten-fold increase. This is while the federal government folds its hands and says “wait and see”.

It is outrageous that we are allowing American mills to process our logs at bargain rates while the American tariff wall closes our mills. B.C. forest minister De Jong recently said he is considering a tariff on log exports. He certainly has my support. A tariff on log exports would help at least to level the playing field while the dispute continues.

While the anticipated aid package from the federal government will provide extended EI coverage and money for retraining or relocating, British Columbians would like to know why Ottawa has no money for loans or even help with legal fees that are crippling our industry and forcing our mills to close.

In the throne speech we heard that the government would continue to work with its allies to ensure the safety and security of Canadians. Frankly, the government should be embarrassed about its failure to protect our security. In my riding I have many retired military personnel who, along with our active military personnel and our veterans, are likely among the Canadians most disappointed by this throne speech. In the face of greater world conflict, there is no commitment to rebuild our military infrastructure under the government.

We had 90,000 forces when the government took over, now they have been reduced to 53,000. There is no heavy lift capability. There is no capacity to move our troops and equipment without help from the Americans. This was true in Afghanistan but it was also true for domestic crisis like the 1997 flood in Manitoba.

We need an increase of at least $2 billion in annual funding for the military. We have $100 million for the Prime Minister's new passenger jets, while the military has aging Sea King helicopters and rejected, used and design-flawed British submarines, but what a bargain.

We need a new Hovercraft for marine search and rescue off Vancouver International Airport. With miles of mud flats not accessible by land or water, only a Hovercraft fills that niche, but there is no budget for infrastructure replacement. The coast guard is told to look for a used one. Where does one find a yard sale for Hovercraft?

Further on security, our marine communication and traffic services is chronically underfunded and understaffed, has no money for routine training and has delayed ab initio training. Our fine dedicated officers at MCTS already have been through amalgamation, reorganization, downsizing and cross-training, yet they still experience budget shortfalls. They monitor all our vessel traffic along our coasts. The fisheries committee documented these desperate conditions and wrote the minister. Our coasts are subject to vessels, tankers and terrorist threats, but where is the funding for coast guard monitoring of our high traffic and increasingly vulnerable coastlines?

The government promised in 1994 to end foreign overfishing. Despite a strong recommendation from the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans about abuses of the NAFO states overfishing groundfish on the Canadian continental shelf, there as been no action and no significant intervention. At the recent NAFO meetings in Spain, member states gave themselves new quotas that ignore the science and continue the abuse of Canadian groundfish stocks.

In 1996 the government promised to revitalize our fisheries, but fisheries failures, mismanagement and conflicts continue on both coasts.

On health care, the throne speech asked Canadians to wait for Mr. Romanow. After pillaging transfer payments to the provinces, the government says to wait, but Canadians are concerned about long waiting lists. Further, evidence that medical interventions cause 100,000 deaths per year has led to calls for a new agency at $10 million per year to protect Canadians from medical mistakes.

With prescription drug failures being the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S. and 15% of acute care hospital beds occupied by prescription drug failures, maybe drugs and surgery are not the only legitimate interventions. It would have been nice to hear the throne speech commit to providing research dollars to check out promising alternatives that offer better outcomes with lower risks.

If feeding cheap byproducts to cattle in Britain allowed mad cow disease to infect cattle, why does the CFIA allow pig and horse to be fed to Canadian cattle? Every species has its own viruses. Cattle are herbivores. If cost effective measures like chiropractic can save $2 billion annually, why does Health Canada not research the facts and recommend cost effective measures to the provinces?

Canadians want to know that their government has their interests at heart. Canadians want to know that every effort is being made to ensure their future and security is being addressed. The throne speech whistles that all is well, but Canadians look around and see great cause for concern. There was a sea captain in charge of a state of the art ship who refused to take note of the signs that all was not well. He was so confident that he refused to change course. The disaster of the Titanic is not the one that Canadians want for their country.

It is time for the government to demonstrate that it is listening to Canadians from coast to coast and working for the interests of all Canadians.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for bringing up the lack of attention in the throne speech regarding fishery related issues. We are both on the same committee. He correctly brought up the lack of detail or any kind of attention to this serious issue which is affecting the coastlines in this country.

I would like the member to elaborate more. We had a terrible incident on the west coast regarding the coast guard and a family of five that passed away. We had an incident prior to that in British Columbia where a person went over a bridge and was killed because of a lack of a proper diving unit and a lack of resources to our coast guard.

I would ask the member, if the government continues on this path, what does he see for the future of the west coast when it comes to coastal surveillance in our country?

[James Lunney, Canadian Alliance, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question.

Indeed, the coast guard and the fisheries department in general are responsible for monitoring both our fish enforcement and certainly the coast guard services have been greatly stressed and underbudgeted for many years.

There was the tragedy with the recent sinking of the Cap Rouge II and the loss of five lives. It would be hard to describe what it was like for coast guard divers to be there but not permitted to enter this vessel because of labour code regulations. Why would the letter of the law prevent someone from trying to save a life?

It is apparent that risk is inherent in search and rescue operations. We have officers and trained divers. They trained the military divers that according to regulations they were waiting for.

It is time that our officers be free to use common sense in emergency circumstances to save lives, rather than being bound by the letter of a regulation while lives are endangered.

I wish to mention the coast guard infrastructure. The MCTS centres that we visited with the fisheries committee were understaffed, stressed, had stacks of documents of requests for the repair of equipment, with transmitters that were down in Prince Rupert and navigational aids that were not operational. This puts tremendous stress on the officers trying to do their job. There are thousands of miles of coastline that are not even monitored. We depend on voluntary communication for vessels coming into the northern part of our coast. Given the threats of today's world, the government has an obligation to do better to protect our coastline and our navigation.

[Philip Mayfield, Canadian Alliance, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it concerns me when I see in the Speech from the Throne the list of items that we will be spending large amounts of money on when other programs are being sacrificed. For example, the hon. member mentioned fisheries.

It concerns me that at this time the coast guard does not have the resources to respond to environmental spills. Recently it was reported to me that in the Fraser River there were some 2,000 litres of ethylene glycol, antifreeze, dumped or poured into the Fraser River. The coast guard did not have the resources to even respond to investigate. The person who did that should have the book thrown at them because that is destroying not only fish habitat, but killing fish during the spawning season.

Second, I would like the member to comment about the pine beetle. The federal government has money for these programs, but no money to clean up the damage caused by these beetles on federal government lands. I would like the member to comment on that also.

[James Lunney, Canadian Alliance, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is frightening that the government has allowed infrastructure to deteriorate to such an extent in the country. The Auditor General identified $16 billion in frivolous spending. We know of the ad accounts and the sponsorship programs that have caused the government such embarrassment with millions of dollars for reports that are either identical or cannot be found.

Surely it is possible within our budget and within the constraints of our taxpayers to redirect funds to necessary infrastructure to allow our officers to do the job they are trained to do in protecting the environment from spills as our colleague mentioned and allowing for the necessary clean up of emergencies that the pine beetle infestation has caused, and for the proper monitoring of our coasts.

In fact, the fisheries committee wrote to the minister prior to the last budget outlining the deficiencies we found in our communications and in the MCTS program in particular. We were hoping to see those factors addressed in the budget. The reality is that nothing has really changed and our officers are still severely stressed. This needs to change.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the member for Yukon.

The Speech from the Throne on September 30 and the reply by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons the following day provides the framework for the government's overall policy and program agenda for the months to come. The budget which will probably be delivered in February next year will spell out how this program will be financed.

The government has recommitted itself to sound fiscal management. This means a continuation of the current emphasis on budgetary surpluses, not deficits, the ongoing implementation of a fair and competitive tax regime, strategic investments in the social and economic priorities of Canadians, and more debt reduction.

In this context, the government has set itself an ambitious agenda in several key areas for Canadians.

The government has committed itself to a reformed health care system providing greater accountability and further long term federal investments in the health care system.

I would characterize Canada's health care system as the following: one with high per capita spending; one with good health outcomes in terms of items like infant mortality, life expectancy et cetera; but unfortunately, one where we get poor value for our money. In my view we need to focus on ensuring that our health care system is sustainable into the future which is a particular challenge, given demographics and the rapidly increasing number of elderly people in Canada.

Canadians collectively should recommit to the public health system and not to a two or ten tier health care system. Recommitting ourselves however to the public health system brings certain responsibilities.

We should not throw more money at the system. That would be irresponsible and not in the best interest of citizens and Canadian taxpayers. We need to continue to re-engineer the health care system.

In the Speech from the Throne, the government promises to help children and families out of poverty. The National Child Benefit for poor families will again be significantly increased.

The government will seek ratification of the Kyoto protocol on climate change. Signing the Kyoto accord will only be meaningful if committed goals can be achieved. While there will be new technologies and businesses created as a result of the implementation of the Kyoto protocol, it is naive to think that these new economy gains will offset the damage to our traditional sectors. The behaviour of Canadian businesses and individuals will have to change.

Canada should focus strategically on areas where the payoffs are largest and, wherever possible, the negative impact is well balanced and moderate. Greenhouse gases emitted by the transportation sector and the treatment of municipal solid waste are two such areas. Economic instruments beyond emissions trading and credits will be needed to aggressively advance the Kyoto agenda. Tax incentives, including shifting tax benefits from non-renewable to renewable sources of energy will be required.

Canada will double our government's development assistance by the year 2010 with half of that increase earmarked for Africa. Given our unique relationship with Somalia, Canada should be playing a stronger leadership role in the search for governance models and development assistance that will lead to lasting peace, stability and democracy in Somalia and the Horn of Africa. We should also support and assist the Somali-Canadian diaspora in its efforts to bring about peace and security in that area. We need to reward countries like Ghana for its commitment to good governance.

I was pleased to hear in the throne speech the commitment of our government to work with its partners to break down the barriers to the recognition of foreign credentials. This is a significant problem for many of my constituents of Etobicoke North and indeed across Canada. I look forward to cooperation among stakeholder groups not passing the buck and timely improvements in this area.

Canada needs to ensure that our regulatory environment is consistent with our government's innovation agenda. There are areas where this may not be the case. The process for drug approvals is an example where first mover advantage is sometimes lost to Canadian companies. We also need to rethink our approach to cost recovery and user fees to make them more transparent and more linked to performance. It is hoped that the smart regulation initiative outlined in the Speech from the Throne will address issues like these.

The implementation of a national drug strategy is overdue and most important. My riding of Etobicoke North is plagued with problems associated with drug abuse. Organizations such as the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse can assist the government in the formulation and implementation of an effective drug strategy.

There are a couple of areas which, while not covered in the Speech from the Throne, warrant attention. Although progress on productivity has been encouraging in the last few years. Canada still lags well behind the United States. It is well researched and documented that in companies where employees own shares, productivity gains in excess of 30% are achievable.

Employees share ownership plans, or ESOPs, reach all employees: the receptionist, the factory worker and the manager, not just company executives. Tax policies such as a tax credit similar to that available to investments in labour-sponsored venture capital corporations would encourage the formation of ESOPs and improve our productivity performance in Canada.

The Government of Canada needs a more strategic focus on its important relationship with the United States. This should encompass trade, cross border security, energy, national defence, water resources and a number of other related matters. I look forward to participating in the Prime Minister's task force on Canada-U.S. relations and to the set of recommendations that will be developed to strengthen the ties between legislators, both in Canada and the United States.

Our ability to move goods freely and easily across the border with the U.S.A. is critical, given that 87% of Canada's exports are destined for that market. In addition to policy considerations such as preauthorization, preclearance and border security, bottlenecks in the physical movement of cars and trucks at the border necessitates significant investments in infrastructure.

Dealing with these requirements at border crossings at Windsor, Sarnia and the Peace Portal in Vancouver should take precedence over east-west arteries of the national highway system.

A recent announcement by the federal government in the province of Ontario to make a significant investment in the transportation infrastructure at the Windsor, Ontario border crossing is a very welcome first step.

The government has committed itself to a 10 year program for infrastructure. The program will benefit municipalities such as Toronto but also smaller communities such as Sooke, British Columbia and Colwood, B.C. I recently visited these areas and was told about two very important infrastructure proposals.

The Speech from the Throne includes important initiatives for Canada's aboriginals. There are some major challenges to be met in this area. We must work together with our aboriginal brothers and sisters to improve their quality of life and build their capacity for economic and social development.

The disabled also deserve special attention. We must see that they have genuine opportunities to achieve their full potential.

The government has also indicated its intention to extend its investments in affordable housing for those whose needs are greatest. In my riding of Etobicoke North, with its extensive array of high-rise apartments, this will be very welcomed.

Many of my constituents on fixed and modest incomes are increasingly spending a disproportionate amount of their limited income on accommodation and something needs to be done. I have already begun a dialogue in my riding with agencies interested in building this new affordable housing capacity in Etobicoke North.

What I have outlined is an ambitious agenda, one that does have a price tag. The government will have to carefully examine current spending and cut programs that are of a lesser priority.

Departmental and agency budgets will also face reallocation. Whatever it takes, we must maintain a balanced budget and not return to deficit. Canadians have made the sacrifices necessary to get us to this point and are not prepared to move backwards.

As the Prime Minister mentioned in his speech, the government will establish budget projections over a two or three year time horizon. This is important because beyond two or three years economic predictability becomes more difficult. We should not encumber future administrations with an unrealistic budget burden.

Our nation's finances have been turned around and this has created the possibility for a more activist agenda. We should remember, however, that our federal debt still sits at some $450 billion. We need to continue to reduce our debt to GDP ratio as well as the absolute amount of our debt.

The actions of our government to date, by paying down over $40 billion in debt, have resulted in annual savings in interest charges of some $3 billion. These savings are being redeployed to priorities such as health care and tax cuts. This action needs to be continued.

The government has laid out an ambitious and important agenda. We now need to develop a responsible implementation plan, and I commit myself to this task.

[Roy H. Bailey, Canadian Alliance, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pose a question to my colleague opposite, one that was not really dealt with in the throne speech itself but one that is on the minds of thousands of Canadians coast to coast. The question, which obviously the result will come from the Supreme Court, concerns the terminology of marriage.

We have one premier who has already stated that if the government sits by and allows a judgment to come down that would change the meaning of the act completely, that particular provincial premier would use the notwithstanding clause.

Would the hon. member, thinking about this as an individual, see that this would be a terrible injustice to have the Supreme Court change that which we inherited from generations?

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very difficult area but one in which I have been very clear to my constituents in Etobicoke North.

When we had the legislation dealing with same sex benefits, I and a number of other members who sit in the House fought for the preamble which stated that this should not change the definition of marriage which is between a man and a woman.

We need to allow for the appeal to take place. I gather from the Minister of Justice or the committee that there might be a review of this issue but I for one am not very anxious to change the definition of marriage. In my view, if people are of such an inclination that they need to have a relationship and the only way to have a meaningful relationship is with someone of the same sex, then I say that the most important thing in life is to have a meaningful relationship. However, I do not believe that this relationship needs to be recognized by the state as a marriage. I think marriage was designed for a purpose, which is the procreation of children.

While my views may not be popular with everyone, I have been fairly consistent in what I have said to constituents who have a concern about this.

We need to let that play out through the court system. Whether the province uses a notwithstanding clause, I hope it will not need to do that. As legislators we will deal with this in the way that Canadians intend us to do.