Debates of Oct. 8th, 2002

Social Insurance Numbers

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General says today that there are 5 million more social insurance cards out there than there are Canadians. One household has 225 cards which the government knows about and the department has not even bothered to investigate.

My question for the minister is, since social insurance numbers are an easy way to defraud the taxpayer of hundreds of millions of dollars, why did she not act when the issue was first raised four years ago?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have been acting. Indeed, I welcome the recommendations of the Auditor General and agree with them.

Post-September 11 we are living in a different world and as such we need different measures. That is why today we have announced that effective today we will only accept original documents for applicants for the social insurance number. If a social insurance number has not been used in the last five years, it will be deactivated. I am seeking regulatory authority to put an expiry date on the 900-series social insurance numbers.

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Too little and too late, Mr. Speaker, because up until today one could still get a birth certificate from the Internet and send it in and get a social insurance number. That was condemned by the Auditor General four years ago.

The Auditor General reported that illegal immigrants and bogus refugees are still working the system and still living in Canada by defrauding the government through abusing social insurance numbers. Since September 11 we have known that loose security and loose borders leave us wide open to terrorism.

My question: Why has the minister waited for over four years to close these loopholes and protect our citizens?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

On the contrary, Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General talks about the progress that we are making. On the contrary, in the year 2000 the then Auditor General recognized that the strategies we were undertaking were the right ones, but today is a different world and as such I have announced new measures that I believe Canadians will accept.

Softwood Lumber

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources will soon announce the federal plan to help the softwood lumber industry. For over six months, the Bloc Quebecois has been asking for a plan that should, of course, include measures to help workers, but also small sawmills and other businesses affected by the softwood lumber crisis.

Could the Prime Minister tell us if the federal plan will deal with all these areas, that is workers but also businesses such as small sawmills?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that the Minister of Natural Resources will present the government's position this afternoon, in Vancouver. We intend to help the communities affected by the illegal action taken by the United States.

We also intend to ensure that our forest industry is competitive, both here and around the world.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it would have been a good idea to make the announcement here in the House. We must rely on leaks to get our information. It appears that only an amount of $61 million, over a three year period, is going to be earmarked for workers, through the employment insurance program.

Will the Prime Minister admit that $20 million per year is very little, considering that, in Quebec alone, thousands of workers are affected by the softwood lumber crisis? In fact, $20 million is half as much as what the federal government is spending each year on sponsorships, mostly in Quebec, by the way.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it is not the first time that concrete and important measures are announced for the forest industry. We have already announced some $90 million in funding. Today, the government will announce that about $250 million will be allocated to the forest industry to help the communities affected and to ensure that this industry remains competitive, here in Canada.

Employment Insurance

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thousands of workers have lost their jobs in the softwood lumber industry, mainly in regions like Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, the North Shore, Abitibi, la Mauricie and eastern Quebec. Thousands of families have been directly affected by this crisis.

How can the government settle for such limited measures to help workers and their families, when really the whole issue of eligibility for employment insurance and the period of the benefits is what should have been reviewed in light of the drastic cuts this government has made to the employment insurance program since 1995?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can confirm for the hon. member that the employment insurance system is working very well for workers in the softwood industry. I can also confirm that there is more that will be announced in a package in the very near future.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, no doubt the minister believes in urban legends and thinks that everything is hunky-dory when it comes to employment insurance for softwood lumber workers.

Why has the government, after withdrawing several billion dollars from the employment insurance fund every year, not decided to make a bigger effort by targeting the regions that have been hit directly and re-establishing benefits, at least for the duration of the softwood lumber crisis?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, an average of $450 million goes to softwood or forestry workers through the employment insurance system every year.

Recognizing that we need to do more on the fact that we have this trade dispute, the government will do more. The hon. member will see what those initiatives are in the near term.

Softwood Lumber

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Two hundred days it took, 200 days since the U.S. commerce department announced the punishing duties on softwood lumber. That is 200 days of inaction before the government finally introduced today's pathetic aid package for forestry workers, their industry and their communities. Months ago, the NDP set out a comprehensive plan.

Today's package will not make a dent in the problems being faced by 45,000 forestry workers and their families. How can the government not see that this package is too little, too late?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it is entirely characteristic of the leader of that party that she would rise to denounce roundly a plan that she has not yet read.

Apart from that, I should point out that over the course of the last 200 days the Minister for International Trade has worked continuously to bring the Americans back to the table. He has worked with the forestry sector and provincial governments to right this wrong that has been done to Canada and its workers. Today's plan is the second step we have announced. We have already put $90 million into important measures to help improve the competitiveness of the industry in Canada.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this inexcusable delay in the softwood lumber package has resulted from a bitter battle between federal and provincial Liberals. Who has paid the price, Mr. Speaker? I will tell you who. The hard-pressed forestry workers and their communities right across the country.

Once again Canadian workers are being punished for internal Liberal Party politics. Where is the fairness in that?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is talking about things that are completely irrelevant to the package being announced today.

Today we are focusing on what is needed for communities, what is needed for workers and, frankly, what is needed in the long term to ensure our forestry sector can continue to sell products around the world without these illegal American actions. Opening new markets, creating new products, retraining, research and development, and support to communities; those are the principal elements of this package of which we are very proud.

Government Contracts

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Solicitor General pretends that his untendered contract with his official agent is simple and straightforward. The ethics counsellor reports that he and three other officials have not been able to get the information they need, so he is off to P.E.I. This is the same ethics counsellor who was able to judge the former defence minister in just 24 hours.

What is so complicated about the Solicitor General's case? Is information being held back in Ottawa? Have documents disappeared? Or, has the ethics counsellor been instructed to delay his report until after Parliament rises for a week on Friday?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor is doing his job. He decided to go to P.E.I. I have not talked to him.

I would like him to make his report today. We want to know all the facts. The minister has given excellent explanations to the House of Commons. The report will come and we will deal with it, but he will make his report when he is ready.

I have not asked him for anything but to do it as quickly as possible--well, not me, because I have not talked to him--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

No, I have not talked to him. If I had talked to him I would have said that I wanted the report yesterday.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister can talk to him when he is homeless.

During earlier investigations, the ethics counsellor did not feel obliged to travel to Denmark or even to Shawinigan. Why is he taking the unusual step of moving his investigation to Prince Edward Island? Is he investigating more than just the untendered contract between the Solicitor General and the firm of his former official agent?

Specifically, has his investigation broadened to include either the grant to the college where the Solicitor General's brother is president or to contracts awarded to companies owned or controlled by Tim Banks, the President of the Liberal Party of P.E.I.?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when I see the leader of the fifth party I know why he is there. The more one throws mud, the more ground one loses. He is losing ground every day.

Softwood Lumber

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the softwood industry has been calling for $400 million in assistance, and labour has been calling for an additional $300 million. The government has fallen far short by announcing $247 million, and it has failed to talk about the loan guarantees at all.

How does the government expect lumber companies to continue to pay 27% in duties until this is resolved in a year or two from now without a real package on the table and without talking about the loan guarantees?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, this package has been prepared to provide assistance to communities and to workers, but at the same time to keep in mind the international law that applies so that we are not in a position where the Americans retaliate. We have been careful to design a program which is entirely consistent with international trade law.

It is designed to help the workers affected, to help communities affected, and to ensure that there are investments in research and development of new products and new markets so that we have a sector in the future that is competitive and successful.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it has been five years, a long time coming, and the government has announced nothing. By tabling a package without mentioning the loan guarantees the government is not addressing the problem at all.

Will the Minister of Industry tell the House and British Columbians precisely what he will do, what he is putting on the table, and why he has not done anything to address the concerns about the loan guarantees?