Debates of Oct. 9th, 2002

Government Contracts

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered the question. There was a contract. The contract was renewed. Mr. Nicholson provided information to the department. He provided a lot of advice to me. In fact, I was very fortunate and so was Prince Edward Island to have a man as capable as Mr. David Nicholson giving us advice.

Taxation

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the three political parties represented in the Quebec National Assembly and Quebec civil society as a whole unanimously agree that there is fiscal imbalance and that it is hurting Quebec.

Instead of continuing to deny the problem, will the Prime Minister admit that a fiscal imbalance really does exist and that the time has come for him to sit down with his counterparts from Quebec and the other provinces to tackle this problem, which is particularly acute in the areas of health and education?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I remember that, just a few years ago, the people in that party were advocating separation from Canada because it was bankrupt.

We have managed this country well since 1993. As a result, we have a budget that has been balanced for the past five years, and interest rates are low in Canada, which benefits all the provinces.

If the provincial governments feel they need more money, they have the same taxation powers as we do. We have substantially reduced the taxes of Quebeckers and other Canadians these past two years.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister and the former and the new finance ministers have done is reduce taxes on the backs of the provinces and the unemployed; that is the reality. What he has done is stop paying what he used to pay and had agreed to pay for years toward health and education, leaving the provinces and Quebec with huge problems.

I ask him today if he will be responsible enough between now and the end of his career to sit down with his counterparts, face the reality and stop taking action on the backs of Quebec and the provinces.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in September 2000, we signed an agreement on health with the provinces, and then Premier Bouchard was very pleased with the offer made to him under the circumstances.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is a fiscal imbalance to the extent that a government which has direct responsibilities toward the public does not have the necessary financial resources to provide services such as health and education, while the other government, which has no direct responsibilities toward the public, has monetary resources that it does not absolutely need.

Will the Prime Minister admit that this is essentially what the fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the provinces is about?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if the financial situation of the Canadian government is better, it is because in recent years management in Ottawa has been better than that in Quebec.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the fiscal imbalance is so obvious that even after reducing taxes, the federal government still has enough money to constantly get involved in areas that do not come under its jurisdiction, as we saw in the throne speech.

Will this government realize that when one has surpluses and more leeway every year, and when one uses them to invade the jurisdictions of other governments, one clearly demonstrates the existence of a fiscal imbalance?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, all the proposals that we are currently making to improve the standard of living of Canadians and address their social problems are joint responsibilities of the federal and provincial governments. We have agreements with the provinces and we keep investing more money in these areas. The only thing is that we have better control over our spending than does the provincial government, which continues to open so-called Quebec embassies all over the world.

Coast Guard

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. On August 13 in British Columbia five people died in the sinking of the Cap Rouge II . Tragically coast guard divers on the scene wanted to enter the ship but were blocked from doing so by coast guard policy. Internal documents now confirm that the minister and senior coast guard officials have been derelict in their duty to save lives.

Will the minister accept his responsibility, do the honourable thing and resign?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, once again I want to express my condolences to the families of those involved in that tragic accident. I also want to express the government's pleasure in the activities of the men and women of the coast guard and the excellent work they have done.

The government and the commissioner of the Coast Guard have understood that there were shortcomings in managerial communications and those have been remediated.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister talks about shortcomings. These shortcomings were the responsibility directly of the commissioner and the minister.

The minister has been hiding so far behind a policy of the Canada Shipping Act that clearly was not invoked in the day of the Cap Rouge II sinking. The conditions that day were absolutely excellent for a penetration dive.

I want to ask the minister this. Will the minister and the commissioner at least step down while an independent public inquiry gets at the truth of these tragic deaths and at the record of incompetence, of cover up and deceit by this minister and coast guard senior officials?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I met with the joint rescue coordinator who was on duty that day and he well understood the regulations of both the Canada Labour Code and the Canada Shipping Act. He was not of the belief that anything different could have been done that day. He advised me that he believed the coast guard divers did an excellent job.

The Transportation Safety Board is reviewing the incident of that day. The B.C. Workmen's Compensation Board is reviewing it. A search and rescue operations report is being prepared and a B.C. coroner may request an inquiry.

I believe that those will suffice, and we will wait to see what those reports say prior to taking further action.

Government Contracts

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Solicitor General. The Confederation Centre in Charlottetown received a grant of more than $5 million from ACOA and Heritage Canada to renovate the centre. Of that federal grant, $120,000 was then awarded in an untendered contract to APM Group, a company owned and operated by Tim Banks, president of the Liberal Party of P.E.I.

Did the Solicitor General or anyone on his behalf have any contact or conversation with Mr. Banks or anyone on Mr. Banks' behalf about this transaction?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I told the House that this corporation, which has been in existence since 1964 to celebrate the Centennial, has an independent board. It is a corporation which has no association with the Government of Canada.

The contractual policies of this organization are made by the board. Mr. John Crosbie and Mr. Tom d'Aquino are on the board. I presume they applied the normal business attitude to ensure that the work was done in the interests of the centre, for which they have the responsibility to administer.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is notable that the Solicitor General was not allowed to answer that question. On May 6, 1999 the ethics counsellor told the industry committee, “if there's any question that comes up on a minister's office or the minister, the Prime Minister will discuss this with me in advance”. Yesterday the Prime Minister said he had not talked to the ethics counsellor about the investigation of the Solicitor General.

Why did the Prime Minister make an exception to his rule in the case of the Solicitor General? Did Percy Downe or anyone else speak to the ethics counsellor on this matter on the Prime Minister's behalf?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Not at all, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Wilson himself decided to look into the matter. He decided to go to P.E.I. After he was active in that, I did not feel obliged to talk to him because he was doing his job without asking me if he could do it. He was doing his job appropriately so I saw no need to talk to him. I am waiting for his report.

Kyoto Protocol

[Bob Mills, Canadian Alliance, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, article 3, section 2 of the Kyoto protocol states, “Each Party included in Annex I shall, by 2005, have made demonstrable progress in achieving its commitments under this Protocol”. The Prime Minister said we have 10 years to develop a plan.

We are already close to 30% over our 1990 levels. How can the Prime Minister continue to say that we have 10 years to develop a plan?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Action Plan 2000 would give 80 megatonnes. When the ministers meet in the next few weeks with their provincial counterparts, they will look at the program that was put forward in the year 2000. They will adjust it to what is the reality today. A report will obviously be made in 2005.

I know that Canadians will be able to meet their international commitment and be in a position to respect Kyoto in 2012.

[Bob Mills, Canadian Alliance, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is amazing that the Prime Minister knows that when he does not even have a plan.

The Prime Minister and the environment minister stand up day after day in the House and say they are consulting with the provinces and industry. In reality, eight out of ten provinces and seemingly most of industry are saying that we should not ratify without a plan.

If indeed these consultations are meaningful, why is the government not listening to the provinces and industry and developing an implementation plan before it considers a motion in the House to ratify Kyoto?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I was in Calgary a few weeks ago and I spent almost two hours with the industry discussing that very problem.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Yes, I was discussing that myself. They made their points and I made the points of the government. The ministers are working with their provincial counterparts and the private sector and by the time we will be voting by the end of this fall Canadians will know what can be done and what will be done.

Government Contracts

[Robert Lanctôt, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a former vice-president of Groupaction appeared on television in Montreal yesterday to denounce the close political ties between that company and the government.

Who is investigating the political responsibilities in the sponsorship program scandals? No one. Is this not just one more reason to initiate an independent public inquiry into this entire affair?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, it is not only a matter of official knowledge, it is a matter of very public knowledge that the RCMP is conducting a very thorough investigation with respect to Groupaction.