Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Scarborough East.
It is an honour for me to take part in this take note debate on modernizing the House of Commons. It is, in my opinion, very important to give members the opportunity to express their views on potential changes to the procedure, which the committee could study.
The government House leader has mentioned a number of possible initiatives that could be submitted to the modernization committee. I would like to take this opportunity to speak about two of those initiatives in which I am particularly interested.
In his speech, the minister pointed out that the United Kingdom and Australia have inaugurated a chamber parallel to the House of Commons. For those members who are unfamiliar with institutions of that type, I will take a moment to describe them briefly, because I am greatly interested in this as I have said.
The use of Britain's Westminster Hall was first recommended by the U.K. modernization committee in April 1999. It recommended that there should be an experiment with a parallel chamber in the grand committee room known as Westminster Hall, the famous huge hall at Westminster Palace. Of course Westminster Palace includes the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as a large room behind the House of Lords, which is for royalty to use when they are at Westminster Palace. Originally Westminster Palace was a palace, a residence of royalty, of the king or queen. We are talking about the large room called Westminster Hall, an ancient room in that building.
The committee's report containing these proposals was adopted and now all members of parliament in Britain are able to attend sittings in Westminster Hall to debate matters that are agreed by all parties to be important but for which time on the floor of the House itself is not readily found. For a matter to be discussed on the floor of Westminster Hall, all parties must agree to refer that matter to Westminster Hall. Decisions can be taken only with unanimity. Everyone in the chamber at Westminster Hall has to agree in order for a decision to be taken.
Westminster Hall sits on Tuesday and Wednesday mornings and on Thursday afternoons, for a total of about nine hours per week. That allows for a lot of discussion about issues that the House itself does not provide time for. The specific items considered in Westminster Hall include private members' business, debates on committee reports and other business that is selected through the usual channels.
One of the debates we could hold in a parallel chamber like Westminster Hall is, for example, a take note debate. We are all familiar with the fact that there have been times when we have had take note debates or emergency debates that have gone on into the wee hours of the morning. There is no question that members are prepared to do that. They show great determination to stay during long hours and perhaps sometimes all night to debate important matters, but I am not sure that is being generous to or reasonable for the staff of this place, nor reasonable for our own health, for that matter. It is responsible for us to ensure that we keep hours that while perhaps long are at least reasonable for our own health. Staying all night long for debates and then having to work the next day is not necessarily in keeping with that. That is one more reason that a parallel chamber could be a positive development.
In November 2000, the U.K. modernization committee conducted an evaluation of Westminster Hall and reported that the experiment was proving successful and should be continued. The committee noted that one of the strengths of Westminster Hall was that it greatly added to the opportunities for members to debate matters that were of concern to them as individuals. For example, in the 1999-2000 session, 20 committee reports were debated in Westminster Hall on issues ranging from foreign affairs and agriculture to the environment and health. During that session, 14 general debates were held in Westminster Hall on issues such as children's social services, U.K. engagement in Africa, pension reform, and crime reduction. We can see that a wide range of important subjects is being debated at Westminster Hall.
In fact, the committee noted that Westminster Hall greatly expanded the opportunity for members of parliament to advance private members' items. For example, without Westminster Hall, there would have been only 129 opportunities to debate private members' business. With Westminster Hall, there were 263 opportunities for private members' business to be debated, a 100% increase, a pretty dramatic impact from that one initiative. Overall, the additional number of opportunities available to members for debates went from 135 to 296, an increase of 54%, a very substantial and significant increase.
As a result, the U.K. modernization committee concluded that Westminster Hall had proved to be an effective forum for members to advance issues. For this reason, the modernization committee stated:
...there can be little doubt that the creation of Westminster Hall is a radical innovation...we see the current experiment as an exciting and major new development which should give the lie to those who claim that the House of Commons is hopelessly antiquated and impervious to any change whatever.
It is important to note that Westminster Hall is designed for individual MPs. It is not designed for the government to advance its initiatives. Westminster Hall is not designed to detract from the business of the House of Commons. To summarize again, the modernization committee concluded:
It is important to note what Westminster Hall has not done. It has not enabled the Government to expand its legislative programme: the business taken in Westminster Hall has been additional business which would otherwise not have taken place at all. Overwhelmingly it is accepted that Westminster Hall has not detracted from the primacy of the Chamber: the House has had no difficulty in keeping the business in the main Chamber going on Thursday afternoons when the parallel Chamber has also been in operation.
Australia has also had a successful experiment with a parallel committee dating back to 1994, called the main committee. In 1993 the Australian procedure committee prepared a report, known as the Blewitt report, with proposals to improve the handling of legislation.
The key proposal of the Blewitt report was the establishment of the main committee. The Blewitt report envisaged a standing committee of the whole house which would deal with the second reading and consideration in detail of certain bills.
The main committee was designed with the following characteristics. It would be less formal. It would show cooperation with and due deference to the house itself. It would work in subordination to the house. Any decision made by the main committee would have to be confirmed by a decision of the house itself. Unanimity was another feature required. Issues lacking unanimity would be referred back to the house for a decision, which is quite similar to the situation in Westminster as I described earlier.
Although the main committee was first designed to work as a parallel legislative stream, when it was implemented it was also established as a forum for debate on government policy and committee reports, much like Britain's Westminster Hall.
Important changes were made in 1997 to provide for members' statements and adjournment debates so that the main committee also became a forum for the ventilation of grievances and matters of interest and concern for individual MPs.
The main committee has had the following benefits. There has been less use of time allocation, which I am sure members across the way would be happy to hear about. There has been more time available for debate on each bill. There has been more debate on committee reports and government policy. As well, there have been greater opportunities for private members to take part.
These benefits in fact can be demonstrated by quantifiable empirical data. In 1992, 132 bills were guillotined or time allocated. In 1993, 111 bills were guillotined. This number fell to 14 in 1994, 1 in 1995 and 6 in 1996. In 1999, 59 MPs made 120 speeches in adjournment debate. Over 80% of MPs who responded to a survey considered the main committee to be a success.
I hope that our modernization committee will seriously consider the advantages enjoyed by Britain through Westminster Hall and by Australia through the main committee.
I had other matters I would have been delighted to discuss. The idea of a parallel chamber is one which I think members should consider very seriously. It holds great benefits. It would save the health of a lot of members and certainly of staff, and would be a much more reasonable approach to take note debates and many other matters.
I look forward to seeing progress in this process.