Debates of Nov. 28th, 2002

International Criminal Court

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the International Criminal Court is not only an historic development in the struggle against impunity, but it is also an historic milestone in the struggle to end impunity for crimes of sexual and gender violence.

First, the ICC treaty criminalizes sexual and gender violence as war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Second, it provides important procedural protections for women victims and witnesses, with the court required to protect the safety, well-being, dignity and privacy of victims and witnesses.

Third, the rules of evidence are designed to shield victims of sexual violence from damaging or intrusive attacks on their sexuality or credibility.

Fourth, it requires that the election of judges take into account the need for gender equity.

It requires that the ICC prosecutor appoint advisors with legal expertise on sexual and gender violence, and it facilitates victims' direct participation in court proceedings so that the woman's voice can be heard.

In a word, international humanitarian law will no longer be able to ignore the victimization of women who are raped, trafficked and persecuted by horrendous acts of violence.

Hiv-Aids

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, nothing in the history of our world will kill more people than AIDS.

I just returned from Africa and saw the devastation it is causing. With many countries having one-third of their populations HIV-positive, and with more than four million people a year dying from the disease, nothing is left in its wake except millions of orphans and eviscerated economies.

AIDS is killing Africa and yet many of its leaders refuse to even acknowledge the problem. Some, like Robert Mugabe, deliberately make things worse.

We must wage nothing short of a war against AIDS. Pressure must be applied to national leaders to acknowledge the problem, and implement critical prevention and treatment programs.

The World Health Organization must purchase the patents for essential life-extending anti-retrovirals so that they can be freely distributed in developing countries.

Inaction will lead to wide swaths of our world being without adults, without viable economies and with a sea of orphans bereft of hope. This must not be allowed to happen.

Computers for Schools Program

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on November 25 I had the pleasure of announcing at Nootka Elementary School in my riding that 50,000 computers have been donated to schools in British Columbia as part of a computers for schools program.

This program, sponsored by Industry Canada and business partners like Telus, B.C. Hydro, refurbishes old computers for schools across Canada.

Six years Nootka Elementary had only six computers. Today, with the help of the computers for schools program, it has over 60.

I want to congratulate Industry Canada and the countless business partners of the computers for schools program for providing computers for schools, not only in my riding of Vancouver--Kingsway but indeed for schools right across Canada.

Health Care

[Bev Desjarlais, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Mr. Speaker, today the Romanow commission released its long awaited report for rebuilding our health care system.

My New Democratic colleagues and I welcome its recommendations which put before us a solid prescription and a treatment plan that can be implemented with the urgency that is needed.

This reports highlights that some people, in particular aboriginal peoples and those in rural and remote parts of the country, cannot always access medical services where and when they need them. The report states that these problems must be tackled on a priority basis or they will eventually erode public confidence in medicare and with it the consensus that it is worth keeping.

Commissioner Romanow has recommended new initiatives to improve timely access to care, to enhance the quality of care the system provides, a more coordinated approach to health human resources planning and a special focus on the health needs of aboriginal peoples.

New Democrats hope that the federal government can find the political courage to rebuild our health care system and enhance care in our communities.

Softwood Lumber

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the softwood lumber crisis is taking a heavy toll on both forestry workers and sawmills. There have been hundreds of job losses and several sawmills have closed, all of which makes it more urgent than ever to implement an aid package that takes what is happening into account.

However, so far, the federal government has done no more than apply ineffectual half measures that are poorly suited to the situation. What is worse, the training programs offered have the effect of pushing workers into other trades, thereby encouraging them to move to large urban centres in search of work. Basically, the government measures are a subsidy to move away.

As for the sawmills, the government is abandoning them to their fate by refusing to provide them with loan guarantees that would allow them to get through this unprecedented crisis. Instead of coming up with a specific plan to help rescue them from a slow death, the government would rather issue empty statements that do not reassure anyone.

The Environment

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen, I proudly present the top five myths perpetrated by the member for Red Deer during his misleading monologue over the past week.

Myth No. 5: He says that the Kyoto protocol will not reduce air pollution. Fact: It will.

Myth No. 4: He says that the Kyoto protocol is only about CO

2.

Fact: It identifies six greenhouse gases.

Myth No. 3: He says that the Kyoto protocol does not address nitrous oxide. Fact: One of the six greenhouse gases it addresses is nitrous oxide.

Myth No. 2: He says that the IPCC is a group of 200 scientists. Fact: It is a group of 2,000 scientists. He has repeated it seven times and every time he drops the zero.

Myth No. 1: He says that none of the IPCC scientists say people will be dying from the heat and the Prime Minister is wrong to suggest it. Fact: The PM is right. It says exactly that on page 12 of its report. He repeated this misstatement yesterday even after I corrected him.

Thankfully, Canadians can now hear from better informed MPs.

Fisheries and Oceans

[Loyola Hearn, Progressive Conservative, St. John's West, NL]

Mr. Speaker, we are presently witnessing the confusion created throughout the country by the government in relation to the way it is handling the Kyoto issue.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans is also creating concern and confusion in the way it operates.

Last week the minister leaked to his leaky caucus his intention to close the Atlantic cod fishery. Where is the plan to address the crisis?

This week we hear that the same department is removing 15 fog horns along the Vancouver coast against the advice of all those involved and affected. Where is the plan?

The government is proceeding in the same way it is proceeding on Kyoto. No plan. As Yogi Berra once said, “It's déjà vu all over again”.

Health

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today Roy Romanow reflected the government's distrust of private delivery within the public system. Like the current and former health ministers, he wants to put a stop to private delivery.

Is it still the plan of the government to shut down private delivery options in the provinces?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, on behalf of the Government of Canada, let me thank Commissioner Romanow for the work he has done.

The report, which I tabled in the House this morning, is entitled “Building on Values”. It is very important for us to keep in mind the values of Canadians as we move forward working in partnership with the provinces to renew the system.

We know what Canadians want. They want a--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are about as anti-health care as they are anti-American.

The Canadian Alliance and the provinces have supported the idea of allowing alternative delivery options within the public health care system. Canadians do not care who provides their health care as long as they have timely access to quality health care regardless of the ability to pay.

Why does the government think that a public monopoly is the only way to provide quality, timely health care for all Canadians?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate that Commissioner Romanow has tabled his report. This report will form the basis of discussions among the federal, provincial and territorial governments. It will form the basis of ongoing discussions among health care professionals.

As the hon. member knows, our goal is to provide high quality, accessible health care within a publicly financed system.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government could have purchased 26 MRI machines for the cost of Roy Romanow swanning around the country for answers which Canadians already knew.

For 10 years the government has abused federal oversight to stifle innovation in the provinces. Now Roy Romanow proposes building health care to a 1960s model with a twist. He is proposing paying half the dollars while imposing twice the conditions.

Why is the government proposing new and expanded conditions on the provinces which will only stifle provincial innovation in health care?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first of all it is quite clear that the hon. member knows very little about the health care system.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. We have to be able to hear the Minister of Health in her reply. The hon. member asked the question. I am sure he wants to hear the answer. The hon. Minister of Health has the floor.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Edmonton West, AB]

What I was trying to say, Mr. Speaker, is that the hon. member knows very little about the health care system if he thinks the cost of the Romanow commission would buy 26 MRI machines. He is so out of touch in terms of the cost of high-end diagnostic equipment in modern health care.

Let me reiterate that we are committed to working with the provinces and territories. In fact, we are the first to concede that the provinces and territories have been innovating. They are innovating on the ground in terms of how they deliver high quality health care.

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today the government has a choice, either to follow Romanow and the past 10 years of Liberal rhetoric backward into slower, more bureaucratic health care, or to step forward into modern, efficient and innovative health care already provided and started by the provinces. Which road will the government take?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I have been very clear throughout and long before today that the government is committed to working with the provinces and the territories.

We acknowledge the fact that they are on the first lines of health care delivery. They are innovating and dare I say, they are innovating with our assistance, be it in relation to primary health care renewal, be it in relation to pharmaceutical utilization, be it in relation to high-end diagnostic equipment.

We are going to continue to work in partnership with the provinces and territories and Canadians to ensure we have a sustainable health care system for the future.

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that would be a change over the last 10 years.

We support the right of the provinces to contract out to alternative service providers so that Canadians can get off the waiting lists and be provided with the health care that they deserve.

The real question is, will the government continue to tie the hands of the provinces on real health care reform?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I would love those people on the other side to get past the rhetoric around health care reform. They talk about real health care reform. I want to know what those guys think real health care reform is.

The provinces have been working on real health care reform. The provinces have been working on new models of primary health care delivery. They have been working on new models of home care and new models in relation to pharmaceutical utilization.

Those members would suggest that the provinces and the territories working with us have not been innovative, have not been delivering--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we did not need the Romanow report to know that there is a need to reinvest in health. After making massive cuts in health, the government waited for 18 months, to the detriment of patients, obviously planning to tell those who provide the services “Now, let us tell you what to do”.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister admit that the Romanow report is the tool the government was waiting for to impose its views, and add more structures, bureaucracy, and controls, a lot of red tape that will not help doctors in the least, let alone patients? Could he not say yes to health and no to bureaucracy?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Absolutely not, Mr. Speaker. As I have said before in response to questions from the Bloc Québécois, we are committed to working in partnership and in collaboration with the provincial governments.

Everybody on this side understands that delivery of health care is primarily a provincial responsibility, but we will work with the provinces to ensure that we protect a publicly financed, high quality, universally accessible system.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, obviously, the minister did not listen to my question. She answered using a prepared text. Could she listen this time?

Doctors, hospital staff and CLSCs are unanimous: the role of the federal government is to adequately fund health care, not manage it. Andrée Gendron, of the Association des CLSC, sums up what they think by saying “We do not want the federal government to come and tell us how to organize our services”. The burden of proof rests on the government.

Instead of listening to Roy Romanow, could the Deputy Prime Minister listen to those who are working with the patients and are saying yes to health, and no to the bureaucracy in Ottawa?