House of Commons Hansard #23 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was farmers.

Topics

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4:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

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4:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

There is no consent.

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4:20 p.m.

Mississauga South Ontario

Liberal

Paul Szabo LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services

Madam Speaker, I report to the minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, which is exactly what we are talking about.

Part of the job of the parliamentary secretary is to become familiar enough with the files on some of the important issues. I want to ensure that Canadians understand that in this regard we understand the legal process is often difficult and indeed the farmers whom we are talking about in these cases had a protest, a legitimate process, I believe it was back in 1996. They had some concerns and those concerns were expressed through demonstration, which is part of the Canadian way. It is part of democracy. The fact remains though, that the actions taken by some farmers led to charges under the laws of Canada and the process--

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4:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

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4:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Order. It is very difficult for the Chair to hear over the screaming and yelling of hon. members. There is plenty of time in questions and comments to voice an opinion or to make a comment.

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4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

As I was saying, Madam Speaker, the process of our justice system did take place. There were a variety of appeals. In fact, the determination of the courts ultimately was that the farmers were found to be guilty and they were fined. As a further protest, the farmers decided that instead of paying the fines, they would go to jail. I understand their concerns. Half of them have since paid the fine and are now out of jail.

With that as a background to get the facts on the table, the important issue here is the best interests of our western grain farmers.

When the Canadian Wheat Board was established, a process was established to ensure the best interests of western grain farmers were being presented. There was a consensus among western prairie farmers with regard to the Canadian Wheat Board instructions.

Can the member give the House an indication of where western farmers stand with regard to their support level for the Canadian Wheat Board? Can he confirm to the House that in the event that changes are sought to the Canadian Wheat Board Act, a plebiscite of the farmers and a recommendation of the board of directors is the first way to start?

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4:25 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

David Anderson Canadian Alliance Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Madam Speaker, the real issue here is whether people have the right to do their own business or not.

In reference to the question that was asked, I would like to point out as I did before that a Canadian Federation of Independent Business survey showed an almost 80% support for change. The Canadian Wheat Board survey showed well over 60%. Our mail-outs show consistently higher than that, 60% to 80%. Other MPs tell me the same thing. The Edmonton Journal survey said that over 90% of people think that farmers should have the freedom to make their own marketing decisions.

The frustration comes from the attitude that the minister has portrayed over the years, which is that he is willing to interfere at every step to keep farmers from getting choice. We will see this in the next few days in terms of the recommendation at the agriculture committee. I ask people to keep an eye on that to see what happens.

The article that we have talked about today talks about the fact that first there needs to be a recommendation from the Canadian Wheat Board. That is not likely to come. The vote needs to be organized by the anti-choice government that is in place. The majority vote would only be persuasive. Then there is a big question about how big that vote should have to be.

It seems to me there is no interest in democracy here. The parliamentary secretary wonders why farmers resort to civil disobedience. Part of the reason is that the Liberal government is so completely out of touch with what is going on in western Canada that there is no chance of the Liberals understanding what is going on there and the feelings that farmers have.

Farmers are so frustrated that they feel they have no other opportunity than to do what was done last week in Lethbridge. Actually there are other farmers who are coming into the same situation. In Saskatchewan within the next couple of months some of the same choices will have to be made by farmers.

The government has continued to persecute and pressure farmers. We need relief from that by giving people marketing choices and the ability to make their own decisions.

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4:25 p.m.

Wascana Saskatchewan

Liberal

Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services

Madam Speaker, I am glad to have this opportunity to talk about the topic of grain marketing and the mandate of the Canadian Wheat Board in western Canada.

First, I want to address how this debate is sometimes characterized by those who would oppose the Canadian Wheat Board and, especially today, the official opposition. As we have seen so far, it likes to depict the grain marketing controversy as a battle between farmers on one side and the government on the other. That is a convenient political portrayal for them, but it is in fact grossly inaccurate.

There is not a case of government versus farmers here. This is a case of different groups of farmers themselves having profoundly different opinions about the marketing system they want. All farmers are not on the same side of this debate. I wish they were, quite frankly, as that would make things quite simple. That would make life rather easy, but it is not reality. The fact is that decent, well-intentioned farmers are on opposite sides of this argument and they hold widely different opinions with very deep convictions on both sides. It is not all black and white. It is not all one-sided. That is what makes policy making on marketing issues so very difficult.

Second, the Canadian Wheat Board is not a marketing system that has been imposed recently upon the grain sector across western Canada. The Canadian Wheat Board came into effect in the 1930s, under a Conservative government at the time, and it got its primary mandate in the early 1940s. It has functioned on behalf of western farmers ever since that time.

So over many decades, the Canadian Wheat Board has been well established and, for the most part, well supported. Given that long history deeply rooted in the prairies, change after all of those years is not a particularly simple thing. It is one thing to decide whether or not to implement in the first place a single desk marketing system where none existed before. It is quite a different proposition to remove a single desk system after it has been up and running for over half a century. What seems to some to be a simple matter of personal freedom is to others the removal of their basic marketing rights and traditions. It cuts both ways.

In recognition of this reality and to make the Canadian Wheat Board more democratic, more flexible and responsive, more agile in the marketplace, and more accountable directly to farmers, the Canadian Wheat Board Act was amended in several major ways in 1998. Accordingly, compared to what the group known as Farmers for Justice was protesting against back in 1996, the Canadian Wheat Board now has changed fundamentally, with the biggest changes in the western grain marketing system in more than 50 years.

The CWB is no longer a federal crown corporation. It is no longer run by a set of government appointed commissioners. The Canadian Wheat Board is now governed by a modern, corporate style board of directors, with a full two-thirds controlling majority duly elected by prairie farmers themselves. The chairman of the board is one of those elected producers, indeed, one who got elected in the first place on a platform about dual marketing and rose through the ranks democratically to become the chair. All of the powers and authorities of the Canadian Wheat Board are now vested in the hands of its directors. Thus, farmers themselves now control the destiny of the CWB, not politicians or bureaucrats, but farmers.

The opposition says that the government interferes with that democracy by still appointing 5 of the 15 board directors who always, they say, vote the government's way, and by holding the power to issue the board certain directives which it must follow. Let me comment on those allegations.

First, let us look at the calibre of the people we have in fact chosen since 1998 to serve in the capacity of these external directors. They are senior people from the world of international finance. They are experienced lawyers and grain marketers. They are distinguished corporate executives from the natural resources sector beyond agriculture, people like Mr. Jim Stanford, for example, the former chief executive officer of Petro-Canada, whose ability and reputation in western Canada and in all of Canada is absolutely beyond reproach.

I would also note that I have never once requested any appointed director, or any director for that matter, to vote in any particular way on any issue. It is entirely up to them to exercise their own skill and judgment.

Similarly, since I first became Wheat Board minister in 1993, I have never once issued any directive to the Canadian Wheat Board as a whole, not once. Incidentally, that same power has been there in the law since at least 1943. It was not invented in 1998.

The opposition criticisms ring false and hollow in the face of both facts and experience. This point about producer control goes directly to the heart of the issue before the House today in this opposition motion.

Is it true that only prairie producers need Canadian Wheat Board export permits to do their own export sales across the border? No, it is not true. Any export sale of Canadian wheat or barley from anywhere in Canada requires an export permit from the Canadian Wheat Board.

Is it true that prairie producers cannot have the marketing flexibilities that Ontario producers have given to themselves under the Ontario Wheat Producers' Marketing Board? No, it is not true. Those Ontario flexibilities were achieved through the democratic decisions of the directors of the Ontario Wheat Producers' Marketing Board. Since 1998, prairie producers have had that same democratic right and authority because of the changes made to the Canadian Wheat Board Act, which I mentioned earlier.

Am I alone in holding the point of view that I have just described? No, I am not. Not judging by the mail that I receive from farmers across western Canada and not judging by the predominant themes of journalists and editorial writers over the past few days while this topic has been a particularly controversial one in the public arena.

Let us take Kevin Hursh as one example. He writes regular columns in both the Saskatoon StarPhoenix and the Regina Leader Post as well as many Saskatchewan weekly newspapers all over the province. He is widely quoted and respected. Most important, he is himself a farmer. Last week he wrote a lengthy column about the various sides in the grain marketing debate and the pros and cons of each. He noted the protests by farmers that were going on at the time in Alberta. He also noted the changes in the law that had been made, the ability of farmers to elect directors and to control the Canadian Wheat Board, and the fact that another round of producer elections is underway right now as we speak.

Then he said this about any decision to change the mandate of the Canadian Wheat Board:

This isn't a decision for media pundits, politicians or the Regina Chamber of Commerce. The future of grain marketing and the CWB is in the hands of producers, just where it should be.

While the opposition could no doubt retaliate by citing quotations from the anti-Wheat Board Sun chain of newspapers or the National Post or perhaps others, I could fire back with strong commentaries, equally strong, that appear in other various prairie publications including The Western Producer and others. It is interesting that the hon. gentleman quoted The Western Producer earlier today at length and failed to quote the other article in The Western Producer that points out the strength of the Canadian Wheat Board and makes the argument for why the Canadian Wheat Board should be retained. It would be helpful if the whole record and not just part of it were put on the table.

All of this just makes the basic point that this is not a simple issue with public opinion or farmer opinions all on just one side of the argument. It is far more complex than that.

And producer opinion changes. I think of Lorne Hehn, for example, who first came out of the United Grain Growers organization to be appointed by the Mulroney government to be chief commissioner of the Canadian Wheat Board more than a decade ago. Mr. Hehn, when in the private sector, had been a pretty stern critic of some of the Canadian Wheat Board's practices. There was some speculation at the time that he was being appointed perhaps to diminish the ability of the single desk from within. In fact, he became one of the Canadian Wheat Board's strongest advocates and defenders based on what he saw and learned and experienced after his appointment.

Earlier I mentioned the Canadian Wheat Board chairperson, a gentleman by the name of Ken Ritter, a farmer from west-central Saskatchewan. He ran to be elected to the first board of directors of the Canadian Wheat Board in the fall of 1998. His platform at that time was very clear. It strongly favoured the principle of dual marketing: get rid of the single desk. But again, based upon the facts and his experience after his election, he changed his mind. He now strongly defends the board and the single desk, and he is still a farmer and still acts as chair of the Canadian Wheat Board.

Perhaps most significantly, let me mention Mr. Rod Flaman, a farmer from Edenwold, Saskatchewan, who was himself a full-fledged and prominent member of none other than the organization known as the Farmers for Justice. He was an active participant in those very protests in 1996 that have been referred to in the House today. He too ran into legal problems and proceedings and penalties, just like those other protesters in Lethbridge last week. No one needs to give Rod Flaman any lessons about how tough the grain marketing debate can be: he has been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.

But rather than just posing for the television cameras, he has been very serious about wanting to achieve constructive change, lasting change, change in the interests of farmers, change that will endure into the future. So after he had been a protester, he ran to become elected as a Canadian Wheat Board director the last time the elections were held. Guess what? He won. Last week, Rod Flaman had this to say:

I used to think the same way as the farmers in Alberta. In fact, I took my own grain across the border seven times in 1996. I am here to tell you now that I have changed my mind...The CWB is not perfect, but I now believe that the single desk system is a significant asset for farmers at getting the highest return for their grain. I found myself convinced by the facts.

So said Rod Flaman.

The bottom line is simply this. The Canadian Wheat Board is now a democratic, producer-controlled organization. The government has a clear record of not interfering in Canadian Wheat Board affairs. Even though the law might give me the authority to do so, I have not done so. If farmers indeed want the kinds of things that are implied in today's motion, they can in fact achieve them, but that is for them to decide democratically for themselves.

The lobbying that needs to happen and the convincing that needs to take place should not be aimed at the government or even at the opposition or any of the other parties in this House. It is not primarily the government's business. It is not primarily the opposition's business. It is the farmers' business. Those who advocate an end to the single desk need to persuade their fellow farmers that it is the right thing to do, because that is where the power lies and that is where it should lie, with farmers, and not with politicians, government or opposition, and not with bureaucrats.

Mistakenly, today's opposition motion prescribes a top down, made in government solution. That is the very nature of the problem that the opposition would object to in the first place.

The irony is that the motion is proposing that we do an end run around democracy. Never mind that some 65,000 or 70,000 farmers are voting right now. The opposition suggests that we do not pay any attention to that, that we do an end run around the democratic process.

The motion would also pre-empt the rights and powers of farmers that are vested in their hands. It would substitute a political policy manual for the decision making authority of farmers prairie-wide.

If and when the mandate of the Canadian Wheat Board were to be changed, it would come about not because of the partisan conduct of politicians, nor would it flow from the abusive trade behaviour and harassment of either the Americans or the Europeans. It would result from the democratic conduct of farmers making their own decisions for themselves, and that is as it should be.

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4:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Howard Hilstrom Canadian Alliance Selkirk—Interlake, MB

Madam Speaker, in summing up the minister's speech, I would say that the Canadian Wheat Board's board of directors is there to administer the monopoly that is imposed by law, under the Canadian Wheat Board, by the House, namely the Liberal government. All that the board of directors is allowed to do under law is administer the act that it is given.

Can the minister tell me of any other economic enterprise in this country where the government and one group of that economic enterprise can tell another portion of producers in that economic enterprise how to do their business? Is this a free enterprise economy? Or is it a command economy by a monopoly imposed by a Liberal government?

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4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, I would remind the hon. gentleman that the board was established by a Conservative government, not by a Liberal government.

He said the directors have nothing to do but administer the act. In fact the act says, among other things, that the directors must demonstrate their accountability to producers, directly to the producers who elect them. That means taking into account what those producers say and acting on the views of their producer constituencies.

The act also contemplates changes in the board's mandate and lays out a procedure for how those changes can be accomplished. The advice and consultation of the board of directors would obviously be invaluable, indeed legally indispensable, in that process. It is not just administering the status quo. The board is in a position to facilitate change and to build toward change if that is its reading of what producers would want.

In terms of other examples of marketing boards and agencies, they exist in various parts of the natural resources, agricultural and fisheries sectors. There are a whole range of different marketing arrangements that farmers have put in place for themselves.

I would like to deal with the essence of the hon. gentleman's question. He said it is one particular point of view that is imposed upon all. He has touched on the very heart of what makes this issue so difficult. One farmer's point of view that the opposition is advocating is simply a matter of providing freedom. From another farmer's point of view, just as valid, just as honest, and just as legitimate as the first, it is the removal of an ability to market in the way that other farmer would want. That is the conundrum we have.

I do not think any of us in the House should have a vested interest or bias one way or another. What we need to do is be responsive and as fair as possible to all farmers, and there are some on both sides of this tough debate. By moving in one direction, we advantage some and disadvantage others; in moving in the opposite direction, we advantage some and disadvantage others. It is not a simple matter of everything is black and white, and everything is simple. It is a more complex question than that.

What we have put in the law is a process by which that law can be changed and, ultimately, farmers would vote among themselves. I would submit that the 100,000 or so farmers across western Canada are more legitimate in making that decision than the 300 of us who sit in this privileged place. Farmers should hold the whip hand.

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4:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Myron Thompson Canadian Alliance Wild Rose, AB

Madam Speaker, I get tired hearing the government constantly talk about how clean it is, that it is hands-off these institutions, and that it does not have any say. That is utter nonsense.

In the early 1990s, and the minister is familiar with it, the Conservative government lifted the barley sales. There was an open continental barley market. It was one of the most successful periods of time in barley growing history, not just for the farmers and producers in Alberta but for the Wheat Board which was at the same time entering into a competitive state with the barley growers. It was really pleased with what was happening, the increase in sales by both bodies of people and the increase of income. The decent living was looking good.

That is what the farmers wanted and had asked for. The Conservatives opened that door, then in 1993 the Liberal government was elected and it slammed the door. The people over there slammed the door on the open barley market and they have the gall to stand here and say that they do not interfere with the decisions. Hogwash. Tell me about the barley market.

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4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, I know the hon. gentleman from previous experiences in private life and I think his memory may be slipping. The legal proceeding that dealt with the barley market in 1993 was launched by a grain company, not by the Government of Canada. It was launched by a grain company and decided in the courts.

I hate to put some troublesome facts on the table that destroy the myths and rumours, but the fact of the matter is that the legal proceeding that was taken at that time was taken by a western Canadian grain company. That is where the issue got all ensnared.

In the case of barley, there are indeed some issues that the Canadian Wheat Board board of directors need to be particularly attentive to and pro-active about. I do not think it is his or my role to decide for the directors. We can legitimately raise issues and put questions before the directors and draw situations to their attention that they need to fix. There are certain issues in relation to barley, both on the feed side and the malt side, to which the directors for the future, and in the interest of grain farmers, need to pay particular attention.

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4:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Myron Thompson Canadian Alliance Wild Rose, AB

You slammed the door shut.

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4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

No, I did not.

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4:50 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Rick Borotsik Progressive Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Madam Speaker, I am sure the minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board would like to hear this question. I have a couple of questions and not so much about barley. Oats was a commodity that was part of the Canadian Wheat Board and it was taken away from the Canadian Wheat Board. It was put into a dual marketing system. The minister has said that change is not simple, that it is very difficult to give up a single marketing system for a dual marketing system.

Could he tell me why oats was taken away and put into an open market system? Not only was production increased by farm producers but it was easy to remove from the single-desk marketing system and put into the dual marketing system.

I also looked at the financials. The credit risk in the Canadian Wheat Board for the Canadian government is $7 billion. Is this the reason why the government is so reluctant to let go of the Canadian Wheat Board?

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4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Madam Speaker, on those two points, it is probably just a little bit of inaccuracy in language. The decision on oats was not a dual market, but an open market. That is an important distinction. It does make the point that just maybe this notion of dual market is not one that is viable. The oats case demonstrated that with a relatively small market it can work in those cases.

Members will note that the volume of oats is substantially different from the volume of either wheat or barley and farmers might have a different opinion with respect to wheat or barley. In the case of oats we should not leave the impression that it was a dual system with both functioning successfully side by side. It was a case of a complete transition to the open market in the case of that relatively small volume commodity.

In the case of the contingency that is in the books, the hon. gentleman will know and this may be the point he is getting to, the reporting of every credit transaction of the Canadian Wheat Board is recorded as a separate transaction. Often the reporting at the end of the day cumulates the total where the real number is somewhat less.

If he has got--

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4:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Order, please. The Chair does try to accommodate everybody. I need unanimous consent if we are going to ask any more questions. Is there unanimous consent?

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4:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

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4:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

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4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Marlene Catterall Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe you would find unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:

That when the House is in Committee of the Whole later this day in order to deal with Government Business No. 6, no quorum calls, requests for unanimous consent nor dilatory motions shall be entertained by the Speaker as of 9:00 p.m.

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4:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

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4:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

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November 6th, 2002 / 4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to participate today, on behalf of the members of the Bloc Quebecois, in this debate on the motion put forward by the hon. member for Calgary Southwest regarding the Canadian Wheat Board. I am pleased to participate in it and say that the members of the Bloc Quebecois will oppose the motion for the following reasons.

Let us start by making clear what the Canadian Wheat Board is about. Many people in the francophone community, particularly in Quebec, are less familiar with the Canadian Wheat Board. I would like to explain briefly what it does and say a few words about the three pillars on which it rests. Finally, I will state the Bloc Quebecois's specific position.

The Canadian Wheat Board is an organization run by grain producers which markets the wheat and barley produced in western Canada. The CWB, whose head office is in Winnipeg, is the largest wheat and barley dealer in the world, controlling more than 20% of the trade on the international market.

The Canadian Wheat Board is a leading Canadian exporter; each year, it sells more than 20 million tonnes of grain to more than 70 countries around the world, representing sales between $4 billion and $6 billion. The total proceeds, minus marketing costs, are distributed among the grain producers in western Canada.

This Board is governed by a 15-member executive, 10 directly elected by western producers, and the other 5 appointed by the federal government.

The board was established in 1935 as a voluntary marketing agency to provide producers with a government-guaranteed initial price and to stabilize the grain futures market. By the 1940s, the increasing demand for grain created by the war and the failure of the futures market led the government to grant monopoly powers to the Canadian Wheat Board.

The Canadian Wheat Board is based on three pillars. The first is single desk selling. Instead of competing against one another for sales, western Canada's 85,000 wheat and barley farmers sell as one through the CWB and can therefore command a higher return for their grain.

The second is price pooling. Price pooling means that all CWB sales during an entire crop year are deposited into one of four pool accounts; one for wheat, one for durum wheat, one for feed barley, and another for designated barley. This ensures that all farmers delivering the same grade of wheat or barley receive the same return at the end of the crop year regardless of when their grain is sold between August 1 and July 31.

The third is a government guarantee. Prairie grain producers get an initial payment upon delivery of their grain and the Government of Canada guarantees this payment. The initial payment is equal to about 75% of the CWB's best estimate of the average market price for wheat and barley to be sold over the course of the crop year. As well, the federal government guarantees the CWB's borrowings that are currently about $6 billion.That is how the Canadian Wheat Board operates.

Now I will outline the position of the Bloc Quebecois. First, we are against this motion, because it would lead to the dismantling of the Canadian Wheat Board. Second, we oppose the motion because it condones illegal acts by certain farmers. And, third, collective marketing must be strengthened rather than dismantled. Indeed, our agricultural sector, both in Canada and in Quebec, is based on supply management or marketing agencies, which are absolutely critical to the sector.

The Canadian Alliance motion comparing western production to that of the rest of Canada is a lame one. Quebec's production and western Canadian production are completely different. Western Canada produces for export, whereas in Quebec, farmers produce for local consumption and for exchange with other farmers.

Agriculture in Quebec has developed thanks to collective management, supply management, joint planning and cooperatives. We believe that these types of mechanisms are necessary to protect farm revenues.

Given that the Canadian Wheat Board is being attacked on all fronts by the United States, it would be unwise to change its role. On October 24, 2002, the U.S. commerce department announced that it would be investigating the Canadian Wheat Board's wheat trading policies and practices. The department could decide to charge duties as of December 27, the date announced for its preliminary decision regarding countervailing duties. The department's final decision will be handed down by March 12, and its antidumping ruling will be made by May 27.

American producers claim that the activities of the Canadian Wheat Board contravene trade agreements. Since 1990, the United States has investigated the Canadian Wheat Board's operations nine times. These investigations all confirmed that the commission respected international trade rules.

We believe that any changes to the role of the Canadian Wheat Board at this time could be perceived as a surrender of sorts. It is important that the federal government stand firm and defend the supply management and collective management mechanisms set up by producers.

Marketing boards, such as the Canadian Wheat Board, reflect domestic policy. These policies will be developed in Canada and Quebec by our farmers.

In short, we believe that the Canadian Wheat Board and collective marketing must be enhanced rather than dismantled. We would however agree to adjustments being made to the CWB. Let me give three examples in this respect. Pilot projects focussing on the development of local processing activities could be approved. Accommodations could be made for organic wheat producers. Efforts could be made to ensure that small and medium sized businesses are better represented in the various organs of the CWB.

These are the kinds of changes that may prove beneficial, and be acceptable. But as far as the current proposal by the Canadian Alliance is concerned, we can only oppose it fiercely. The Union des producteurs agricoles in Quebec also opposes it because, like us, its members want to defend supply management vigorously. They believe that structured marketing is an important vested right in our farming system. They also believe that any change to the Canadian Wheat Board would be perceived as weakening our position vis-à-vis the Americans.

Much as the CWB does, the UPA would like to organize the Quebec industry in such a way as to give producers greater influence over prices by putting in place a collective marketing mechanism. The UPA does not condone the extreme actions to which western farmers have resorted and also rejects this proposal.

The position of the Bloc Quebecois is clear. We oppose this motion because we want to protect marketing boards and their supply management programs.

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5:05 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

David Anderson Canadian Alliance Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Madam Speaker, I am a little disappointed in the position that the Bloc has taken on this. It runs contrary to the position it took last spring.

The member for Lotbinière—L'Érable travelled with us and he was one of the most enthusiastic members in terms of supporting the choice of western Canadian farmers. It was interesting to talk to him because he felt there were many similarities between the situation in which western Canadian farmers found themselves and the situation in which producers in Quebec found themselves.

I am a little disappointed today that the Bloc has taken a position that has gone against the position that the member took in the agriculture committee.

I do not know if the member is aware that the government is now extending the powers of the Canadian Wheat Board into Quebec. It is beginning to force producers in Quebec to get export licences that up till now they have not had. I know that is starting to cause interference with producers being able to move their product into the United States and sell into the markets that they normally have had.

I should also point out that it is important to know that there is a big difference between supply management and the Canadian Wheat Board. The supply management industry for the most part has nothing in common with the Wheat Board. It is a domestic industry. It is one where the products for the most part need to be used quickly. There is voluntary participation. There is strong support for supply management. There is no one calling for tearing that system apart. It is also free from government interference.

One thing the supply management industry brags about when it talks to us is the fact that the government is not subsidizing it, in contrast to the Wheat Board which is that most of the market is an export market. The product can be stored for a long time. There is little support on the Prairies for it, and the government controls the marketing agency much more than it ever has.

Is the member willing to reconsider the position that he has taken and support western Canadian farmers who have so much in common with Quebec producers? I would like his opinion on that.