Debates of Feb. 18th, 2002

Kyoto Protocol

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government remains committed to the Kyoto protocol. We trust we will be able to ratify it. That is our aim. I have looked at the letter from at least nine of the premiers. I have found much in it that indicates that they too take the issue of climate change very seriously. They recognize it is currently impacting Canadians and they believe we must have effective measures to combat climate change in Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this letter essentially asks the Minister of the Environment to get Canada out of its commitment by putting things off. As for Quebec, its position is in line with that of the international community, which is asking that the protocol be ratified without any delay. In fact, were it not for Canadian federalism, a sovereign Quebec would already have ratified the Kyoto protocol.

If, like Quebec, Canada truly cares about the environment, could the minister tell us what measures the federal government intends to take to convince the Canadian provinces to support a speedy ratification of the Kyoto protocol, instead of being influenced by them?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that Canada wants to have a plan without undue burden on any part of the country.

We also want to consult Canadians, provincial and territorial governments and stakeholders.

If Quebec wants to go ahead without public consultation, without asking that all parts of Canada support a fairly equal share of the burden, it is its prerogative.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we are saying is that Quebec is in favour of ratifying the Kyoto protocol and that if we were sovereign, we would do it.

The Kyoto protocol must be signed and implemented as quickly as possible if we want to protect our planet. For the past number of years, Quebec has made environmental choices that now make it a leader in the fight to reduce greenhouse gases.

Will the Minister of the Environment admit that the ratification of the Kyoto protocol by Canada is critical and that Quebec should not be adversely affected by the inaction of the rest of Canada when it comes to limiting greenhouse gases? Quebec—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of the Environment.

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we are in favour of ratifying the Kyoto protocol, but we will be consulting all the provinces, including Quebec.

We want to consult those Canadians who are interested in this issue, including the general public and special interest groups.

At the same time, we do not want the burden to be unequal between one side of the country and the other. This is what we want to do before deciding to ratify the protocol. Quebec may make a decision without—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Rosemont—Petite-Patrie.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of the Environment admit that if it were not for Quebec's performance in limiting greenhouse gases, Canada would be the world's number one producer of greenhouse gases per capita and that, consequently, it is urgent that the Canadian government ratify the Kyoto protocol and ensure that it is implemented according to the set timetables?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Of course, Mr. Speaker, the government wants to ratify the Kyoto protocol. This is what the Prime Minister and our government wish to do.

However, it is unacceptable for us to do so without consulting the public, the stakeholders and the provinces. We are now being asked to ratify the protocol without even consulting the provinces, including Quebec.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, mayors from across Canada, meeting in Ottawa, have reiterated their commitment to do their part in meeting Kyoto targets. Their leadership through the FCM, in pressing the government to stop dragging its feet and ratify Kyoto, is welcome and timely.

Municipal leaders, like a lot of Canadians, want to know when the federal government will ratify Kyoto and get on with a comprehensive plan. I will ask again. On what date will the government ratify Kyoto?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party that the premier of Saskatchewan signed the letter from the premiers to the federal government. I remind her that we fully intend to ratify after consultations with the provinces, with interested parties and, of course, with Canadians generally.

We also want to make sure that any plan does not put an unfair, unequal burden on any part of the country. Why the NDP would want to ratify before consultations and before the public knows what the burden might be is beyond me.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, how long do Canadians have to wait for the consultations? I have the letter too and it looks a lot like Gordon Campbell's signature to me.

Kyoto is not supposed to be a slogan. It is supposed to be a detailed plan based on consultations long overdue. The minister knows that public transit is the key to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. Municipalities are more than eager to do their parts but they are starved for funds, ironically at a time when the U.S. government is pouring funds into public transit.

If the government is serious about Kyoto, will it put its money where its mouth is, return--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of the Environment.

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is once again confused on this issue. It is not possible to achieve the Kyoto target for Canada relying only on one sector of one industry, namely the transit area. We cannot do that and have a fair program across the country which takes advantage of the cost effective measures that may exist in other sectors of the economy or in other parts of the country.

I urge her to take part in the consultation process, not keep insisting upon ratification without taking in the views of the provinces, of the territories, of interested organizations or the public in general.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said in Russia that Canadians “have to have some modifications” in the Kyoto protocol and that he is “talking with the provinces” about those modifications. The House would be very interested in knowing what modifications to Kyoto Canada is considering.

Would the Minister of the Environment give us an unequivocal commitment today that well prior to any ratification the government will publish both its impact analysis on a region by region and sector by sector basis, and the regulations relating to implementation? Will he give us that simple commitment?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the right hon. gentleman should understand that this is not strictly a federal program. It will be a program for all governments of Canada, federal, provincial and territorial. It will include major involvement of industry.

We will not come down from the mountain with a plan to lay before everybody else and say, as has been suggested by the two parties that spoke before the right hon. gentleman, that this is it, that we have ratified regardless of anyone else's views. We will consult and real consultation means taking into account what we hear from other people as well as presenting our own views.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not answer the specific questions regarding the public's right to information before decisions are made.

Will the government agree to holding a first ministers conference or a special meeting of federal, provincial and territorial ministers of the environment, in order to establish a realistic and concrete implementation plan, rather than simply having the federal government blindly ratify the Kyoto protocol?

Will the government announce the date of such a meeting in the next 30 days?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, last fall we had two joint meetings of energy ministers and environment ministers of the territories, the provinces and the federal government. We will be meeting later this week with those ministers and again in May. I believe we are carrying out the very type of consultation that will lead to an intelligent, cost effective, mutually agreed upon process for arriving at the decision on ratification.

[Bob Mills, Canadian Alliance, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the last opposition members, I hope the Prime Minister did get the message in Moscow on Friday regarding the ratification of the Kyoto protocol and how it will gut the Canadian economy. Nine premiers are concerned, industry is concerned and Canadians are concerned.

Will the government today abandon its foolhardy commitment to ratify Kyoto this year?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, normally that party tells us that we should do exactly what we are told by Washington, now it is exactly what we are told by Moscow.

We will ratify Kyoto after we have had full consultation with the provinces, the territories, industry groups and the general public. However we will not do that until we have a plan in place that will guarantee no unfair, onerous burden on any region of the country.

[Bob Mills, Canadian Alliance, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think the minister mixed up Mr. Putin with the nine premiers I referred to.

I want the government to talk about its hypocrisy. The Prime Minister went to Texas and told the Americans that we would provide energy to the U.S. for the next 30 to 50 years from our tar sands. At home he said that we would ratify the Kyoto agreement which will severely handicap much of our fossil fuel future and will be Canada's NEP 2.

How does the government explain that contradiction?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I am astonished that a member from Alberta would not understand the connection between providing the United States with clean energy to replace other forms of energy that have higher greenhouse gas emissions, which is good for the Canadian economy, good for the economy of the oil and gas industry in Alberta and good for climate change.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. It is hard to hear the answers. The hon. member for Sherbrooke.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Minister of the Environment is responsible for signing the Kyoto protocol. If Quebec were a sovereign state, the Kyoto protocol would have been implemented a long time ago. Alas, this is not yet the case, but the time will come.

Does the Minister of the Environment understand that if he gives in on the issue of reducing greenhouse gases, we will wind up in a situation whereby the ones who made the right choices, namely Quebec, will be penalized, while those who chose to do nothing will be economically rewarded for their inaction by the federal government?