Debates of April 16th, 2002

Species at Risk Act

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

Order. I guess hon. members want to be named instead. Everyone can have their opportunity to debate.

[Myron Thompson, Canadian Alliance, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you for your intervention, Madam Speaker. They were popping up like a bunch of gophers over there and I was beginning to think I would get drowned out.

We have a piece of legislation that is being put together by senior bureaucrats ignoring the input that went into this debate from individuals who know what they are talking about, such as ranchers, aboriginal people and all kinds of groups that deal with these kinds of endangered species all the time. This information has been fed to the government through the committee and the government has ignored it. Anytime there is a law that is bad for people it cannot be good for other things.

We have to approach it from both sides of the coin. The government has not done so. It is making criminals out of law-abiding landowners. That has to stop. There is the onus of proof. How backward can it get? The government does not understand because it is not an expert on endangered species. It should start paying attention to the scientific community. That is what we are asking and that is what we will demand as the opposition. I only wish it would use its common sense, wake up and do the right thing.

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Madam Speaker, I want to follow in my colleague's footsteps because he made some valuable points about the legislation. The facts are a little different from what the member has said. Of course what the House of Commons is all about is being able to stand and talk about the differences we have and the various political philosophies. Certainly this bill is one which draws out the differences.

My riding is the second largest riding in southern Ontario. If we put it with the riding of Hastings--Frontenac--Lennox and Addington we would have a third of the land in southern Ontario. It is a large agricultural based riding with 44 municipalities, 24 Santa Claus parades and 18 cenotaph services so I think I can talk for rural Ontario.

Rural Ontario is much like the west. We have the alienation of being 80 miles from Toronto, the CN Tower and so forth. There are some similarities between rural Ontario and the west. I have figured it out. Apparently when someone moves out west and buys a pair of Boulet cowboy boots and puts them on, he or she immediately feels western alienation. It is the French made cowboy boots that do it. I have a couple of pairs that I wear in the riding.

Due to the fact that I do come from a large agricultural riding, I have consulted with ranchers, farmers, trappers and the various people who make their living off the land. I was at the dairy farmers banquet on Saturday night and we dealt with this subject. What I explained to them and what I talked to everyone about is that somewhere along the line the government has to govern. It cannot go along leaving gaping holes in the species at risk act as things that cannot be addressed. We have to address them. Somewhere along the line the government in power has to come to the realization that something has to be done.

The member across the way talked about the burrowing owl. I know that if a groundhog tried to take over the trees we would probably do something different with it than we would do with the burrowing owl.

We do have land that is at risk. We do have species that are at risk. We do have the responsibility as a government to make sure that some of the items that are in the bill are brought forward and are acted on by the government. That is what a government is for. It has to govern whether the opposition members like it or not.

Members of the opposition will continue to try to talk this bill out and hopefully earn some brownie points by passing a speech back and forth to each other. I do not know how that works, but I admire them for their tenacity and tell them to keep going. We finally may have an opposition. I have not seen one since I came here.

The species at risk act has been nine years in the making. Nine years seems like a long enough time to put forward policies, different words and a cumulative process to bring forward informed policy. Not everyone will like the act and not everyone will be against it.

Today I met with real estate people from my riding. They have an issue with compensation. I fully agree with them. If someone's land is to be taken out of production, he or she should be compensated. I think we will find support for that particular item.

For instance, if someone takes out a loan with Farm Credit Corporation and a certain number of acres are needed in order to qualify for the loan, if some of that area is taken out of production, does it still remain part of the overall package?

Those are questions that have to be addressed and they are addressed through some of the revisions. We have revisions, changes, studies and refinements and each time the legislation has been brought back, the government listens a little more.

We talk to fishers, farmers, ranchers, resource companies, conservationists and environmentalists. I think I have spoken with most of them because my riding covers large operations. There are 27 commodity groups in the agricultural area I come from.

There was a demonstration. The grains and oilseeds people are in trouble right across Canada but particularly in Ontario because the Ontario government has not come up with its portion of the allotment that farmers need in order to be equal to the farmers in Quebec. Quebec gets the same amount of money on a proportional basis as Ontario. It is just that Ontario does not spend it. Some of the government policies have to be reviewed and we hope the new government in Ontario will do so.

There were 334 motions during the clause by clause review of this particular piece of legislation. There were 125 amendments made to the bill and 75 of those are supported by the government. I think that is progress. An opposition member cannot get everything. The minister will respond to the 75 amendments that were made which will make the legislation much more secure.

As we go through the bill and study it clause by clause, as a good Liberal government should, to make sure all areas are covered, all items are studied and re-examined and various people are consulted. We do not take sides. We do not hang our hat on one particular lobby group that is perhaps well paid to get some section through. We have to look at all aspects, particularly when we consider the various segments of the population that are affected, whether it is people in the dry cleaning business or people who are ranchers.

I was quite pleased to announce this week that I managed to get a $12,000 grant for a school in my riding that will rehabilitate the creek bed leading into Lake Simcoe along one of the valuable tributaries. There will be some tree planting and shoreline development. A couple of settlement ponds will be built for cattle to drink from so the stream will not be polluted. These are very worthwhile projects. It will benefit Brock township, which is in my riding. It will benefit the area. It will benefit the environment. It will teach young people to be land stewards and to actually see what can be done to save the environment.

I encourage members opposite to apply for these grants or to get organizations in their ridings to apply for them. They cannot complain about not getting them if they do not apply. I do not seem to have any opposition in getting them. I have the highest number of grants. It is only because I encourage people to apply. It is not anything I do. I do not take credit for them, but I do push them on this end. If nobody on the other side is competing with me, then obviously I will take everything I can for my riding. My riding benefits from it and that is the way it works. We have to become involved.

We work our way through that program, through the Haliburton game and fish farms and the various things we deal with. A representative from the Haliburton Real Estate Board was at my door today to talk about compensation. I fully agree with him. In my former life I was a real estate broker. In fact I am still a real estate broker; I am just on hold.

Moving along to the bill, there are a large number of species at risk and we have to review them, not just in the context of a burrowing owl or some other species that might be at risk. We are also looking at how we can deal with wetlands. It used to be that farmers would find the worst piece of wetland and use it as a dump. The township would dump all its trash there because it was wet and nobody could use it. Now the wetlands are being cleaned up.

A grant for $650,000 just went to Sir Sandford Fleming College in my riding. The college is developing an ecosystem that will treat all the brown water, all the various pollutants. It will be of great benefit to everyone in the House to copy that type of plan and see that things can be done with land that is reserved for various parts of society, whether it is wetlands or the Carden plains, the Carden Alvar in my riding where people deal with the expansion of quarries and what to do with the waste water from them.

Liberals are more than happy to speak to the bill. However we want to talk about the positive things in the bill, the things that make Canada a better country in which to live, things that make my riding a better place in which to live, and make all provinces and territories equally benefit from this very good piece of legislation along with the amendments.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Madam Speaker, I will talk about the species at risk but with a couple of specific examples. I happen to know about them because they are very topical in my riding of Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke.

The first pertains to moose tags and potential species at risk that we have not too far from Ottawa. Area moose hunters will have a great deal of difficulty bagging a trophy animal this coming fall as available moose tags for cow and bull moose will drop to 10 and 17 respectively. That is down from 218. In wildlife management units 48, 55A, 55B and 57, a total of 218 tags were awarded last year. That total will be reduced to 27. In the WMU 48 area from Pembroke along the Ottawa River to Mattawa and west of a portion of Algonquin Park, there will be six bull and three cow tags available. Again, they are down significantly.

The problem we have is that while we speculate that the cow population is holding steady, the bull population is declining. While a reduction in the number of tags will help rejuvenate the moose population, the underlying cause in the greatly reduced number of moose in the area is federal legislation that has nothing to do with the proposed species at risk.

We are concerned that the species at risk legislation has nothing to do with conservation efforts and that until it addresses other areas of federal legislation and encompasses them in the proposed species at risk act, it is not ready to go through. As the members opposite have often said, it is important not to rush it through but to get it right. Here is a case of it being rushed through.

Another species supposedly at risk in the riding of Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke is the Algonquin wolf, supposedly related to the red wolf. The township of South Algonquin recently received information indicating a proposed 30 month moratorium on hunting and trapping of wolves in the 39 townships surrounding Algonquin Park and noted the regulatory impact statement of the EBR posting. The township of South Algonquin opposes the moratorium as it will have an immediate impact on natural resources such as deer, moose and beaver. Here we have another compounding effect on the availability of moose. Also, it will have a devastating impact in the future should the wolf population increase at the same pace that it has in the past 10 to 15 years.

The businesses in the area depend on the big hunts to provide revenue during the period when they would otherwise be closed. Businesses within the township hunt wolves to provide recreational opportunities and employment in an area that relies greatly on tourism. Should the wolves increase in numbers it could affect the population of big game animals and thus affect the entire economy. Residents within the township disagree with the myth that the wolf population is declining. The wolf population has increased dramatically over the past 10 to 15 years even though trappers in the area have tried to manage the resource to prevent the wolves from eliminating the beaver population.

The facts are that the deer population died off in the late 1950s and early 1960s due to the severe winters, not the wolf population. This in turn caused the wolf population to decline afterward since it depended on the deer as a major food source. Trapping records from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s would probably show that there were very few wolves harvested compared to the period from approximately 1985 to 2000. The same trapping records would show that the beaver population increased from the early 1970s to the early 1990s and decreased in the 1990s, especially in the township of South Algonquin and neighbouring townships.

These facts definitely indicate the drastic effect wolves have had on the beaver population, consequently affecting the trappers and their incomes. Up until approximately 1960, the park rangers in Algonquin Park tried every possible means to manage or control the wolf population. Hunting, trapping and, from the stories told in the local area, also poison were used to try to reduce the wolf population, without success. The population remained stable until the deer died off.

Stories written in park publications also indicate that there is not a shortage of wolves within the park. Consequently, why would this moratorium be necessary? The moratorium was brought in because one person studying wolves over a series of years claimed that they were an endangered species. There should be closed seasons, especially during the period when animals are having their young and carrying out their parenting duties, from early spring until early fall. We agree to a closed season from April 1 to October 31, but we do not understand why there would be proposed legislation for different hunting and trapping seasons. My party agrees that the season for hunting and trapping wolves should be open from November 1 until March 31, but again this trails down to the idea of it being a species at risk.

Trapping is a renewable resource and one of the oldest industries in the province. It is also something the province can boast about. However, should trappers not be allowed to manage this resource in neighbouring townships surrounding Algonquin Park, the effects will be an immediate decline in the beaver population and a financial burden to trappers.

Since this 30 month moratorium has been implemented we have already seen the effects, the increase in the wolf population, which is combined with the cancellation of the spring bear hunt. That too has already fostered an increase in the population and nuisance bear complaints within the province this past year. This will cause serious and probably permanent damage to our local businesses and economy. Prior to a final decision on the moratorium, it would have been appreciated if the recommendations were heard by the scientific community. It would also have been appreciated if the proposal to categorize the Algonquin wolf as an endangered species had been looked at more closely before the reflex of implementing the moratorium. We do not agree with the geographical township area being closed year round to hunting and trapping as it will single out and affect local hunters, especially trappers' ability to manage their traplines.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak on the specific issue of the Algonquin wolf. With this being started, and in conjunction with the notion of endangered species without scientific evidence, we have already had many businesses go under.

The other problem in relation to the Algonquin red wolf is the migration path. The migration path goes from Algonquin Park all the way to the maritimes. If this legislation goes through and the Algonquin wolf is designated as an endangered species, even though all the evidence points to the fact it is not, many homes, farms and livelihoods will be classified as habitat and restrictions will be put on people's land if they are not expropriated with unclear compensation altogether.

The legislation will impact on the population of other animals, such as the deer, as already mentioned, the overpopulation of the beaver, which has a horrendous effect on the lumber industry that is vital to the riding of Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke, and the moose, which has already had significant declines in population altogether.

In conclusion I emphatically request that the bill be halted at this time and looked at further to ensure that endangered species are classified as such under scientific confirmation.

[Jim Gouk, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Boundary—Okanagan, BC]

Madam Speaker, I thank you for recognizing the hon. member for Haliburton--Victoria--Brock because I thought what he had to say was very interesting. Perhaps before I get to what I had intended to say, I could comment on a couple of points, one in particular, that he brought up.

According to him, the government has examined and re-examined the bill, it has made changes, modified and reviewed, and this has been nine years in the making. Let us think of that: nine years. It seems like forever that the Liberals have been sitting across the way and it has not even been nine years. Nine years is a very long time, yet strangely enough, in spite of what the hon. member said about the bill being reviewed, changed and modified over the course of nine long years, it still has so many fundamental errors. I am not talking about little things, little changes that need to be made or semantical changes or possible uncertainties.

There are fundamental things. The first is that the government would take someone's land without compensation. It is absolutely astounding. The hon. member says that it has spent nine years to fix the bill and yet we still have a clause that allows the government to take the land without compensation. Oh, yes, the government says it will probably give some compensation but we do not know what it is. The Pearse report suggests that it might be 50% of the actual value of the loss. I find it a little hard to take when the member says the government has spent nine years getting it right. It has spent nine years and still has it wrong.

Likewise, the government says it does not want to make any changes for dealing with somebody in court who may inadvertently harm an endangered species or its habitat. It says it does not want to change that because that would make it harder to prosecute anybody. The government would rather just go ahead and prosecute but have the judge take that into consideration in sentencing. What an absurdity. An innocent person, a person even the government acknowledges would be innocent, would be subjected to the legal system and would have to hire a lawyer because the government wants to make some special conditions for the person in sentencing. Of course the government has a lot of lawyers in its benches and a lot of lawyer friends, so perhaps that has always been part of its strategy. The person would be a convicted criminal and then the government would say it is okay because the person will get a very light slap on the wrist because the government recognizes that it really was not the individual's fault. It would not be that individual's fault. It would be the government's fault for not getting the bill right.

I would like to talk specifically about Group No. 4 with regard to consultation, which is what I had intended to do before the hon. member on the government side got up. I want to talk specifically about consultation and also about something that ties in with that for the Liberals, which is consistency. Although there are many places where we have to give the Liberals very low marks, we can give them excellent marks for consistency. We are talking about consultation on Bill C-5 or rather the lack of it. There is a consistency in what the Liberals do with regard to this lack of consultation. Probably the most recent example is the very rushed purchase of the Challenger jets. This is an area where there was no consultation with parliament or with the public sector. In fact, they used a sneaky little tactic to make sure they got this without even consulting with cabinet. They found a way to bypass the cabinet. Like I said, it is consistency.

Kyoto is another example of where the government has failed to consult. Mind you, I can understand why it failed to consult in the case of Kyoto. It has nothing to consult about. It has never explained how we are to achieve the objectives laid out in the Kyoto protocol. The government has never explained to anyone how much it will cost to achieve these objectives. It has never explained what the impact will be. Why would it consult? It has nothing to tell the people when it attempts to consult.

Another example is the current Minister of Transport. When he first took his position he actually said, and you could have knocked me over, I can assure members, that he would look at the privatization or commercialization of Via Rail.

Given that minister's penchant for big government, crown corporations and power to the government, it was very out of keeping. We kind of scratched our heads and wondered what was getting at. Sure enough, without any consultation whatsoever, a month or two later he said that they were going to scrap that idea because the private sector was not interested. How did he know that? There was no consultation whatsoever. Again, it is just like in the case of Bill C-5 with the endangered species.

The government has not consulted with these landowners. It has not talked to them to try to deal with the concerns they have raised. They are very consistent in my home province. The bill has quite an impact in my home province.

It was not that long ago this same government said it was going to put through the Nisga'a agreement, which B.C. has now soundly rejected provincially, without any consultation with the people of British Columbia. It was only because it made a huge procedural error in the House, that we ended up forcing at least a limited number of hearings in British Columbia.

It was interesting when we held a hearing in Terrace, British Columbia, in the riding of Skeena. One hon. member from the Liberal side gave an angry response to someone in the audience who was not allowed to speak because it was a very closed meeting. The person in the audience said “If you won't allow me to speak, why did you bother even coming here?”. The hon. member from the Liberal side of the committee in response said that they did not want to be there and that the only reason they were was because the Reform Party had forced them. That is great consistency on the part of the Liberal government.

In this bill the government says it will consult after the bill is passed. It will consult with scientists on what they think should be put on the endangered species list. Of course the Liberals will not let scientists tell them what should be on the list. They will just let them talk about it. If they like what they say, they will do it. If they do not like it they will ignore the scientists. They are not placing anything in the hands of the scientists other than the pretence that there will be a bit of consultation. I guess even the Liberal government is getting a little concerned about the fact that it fails to consult very much with all the different bills it puts forward.

In my province of British Columbia we have a severe problem now. It is hitting other parts of the country as well. However particularly in the rural areas of British Columbia, which is where the impact of Bill C-5 will be, we are experiencing the softwood lumber dispute. Softwood lumber is wreaking absolute havoc on the forest industry in British Columbia. My riding is particularly forestry dependent.

Bill C-5 raises a lot of concerns with those same people in the forest industry. They say that the government may take a lot of their land or that it may restrict the use of these lands and that they may be very restricted on where they can log or the manner in which they can log. There is nothing in the bill about whether or not they will get any compensation for this or even whether they will have any input, say or the ability to challenge the government in the event that it starts restricting their ability to carry out logging activities in B.C.

That is again an example of a lack of consultation by the government. It has not gone to the province, talked with these people, dealt with those issues and explained to them reasonably how it would deal with those situations should they arise.

In the odd place where there has been a little toying with the concept of consultation, I can assure the House that the consultation has not been meaningful. It is interesting that the government does not even appear to consult with its own members on the committee. Those very same committee members have made recommendations which the government has either ignored or put in changes which the government is now proceeding to take out.

I notice that I am running out of time. That is very unfortunate because I can assure the House that I have a lot more to say about this issue.

It is interesting now that the government is saying that it does not even want to review this legislation later. Not only is it failing to consult with people before the bill is passed into law, it is also saying that it will put provisions in to ensure that it will never have to consult with them after the bill is passed.

I can understand why the government might want to get rid of reviews. Where there have been mandatory reviews on other legislation, the government is years behind. Maybe it is because the government feels it cannot get good enough control of its committees and may have to override them.

I appreciate the time I have had. I look forward to continuing this debate. I would hope that at some point the government suddenly wakes up and decides it will fix the bill. Nine years is long enough. The government should be able to get it right.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, what do the passenger pigeon, the Dawson's caribou and the blue walleye have in common? They are three of the 12 species identified by the committee on the status of endangered wildlife in Canada, or COSEWIC, as being extinct. That means that for future generations they will be as mythical as unicorns or Liberals in western Canada. A species which may have existed in the past, but has long since disappeared from the Earth are what these species are.

That a species that once thrived in Canada has vanished from the Earth within the last hundred years is cause for sadness. We cannot help feeling somehow responsible for asking ourselves what practical things we could have done to save these animals from extinction.

In addition to the 12 extinct species, there are 17 other species that are extirpated. This means that there may be some members of the species elsewhere in the world, but we have banished that species forever from our land. For example, the great prairie chicken has vanished from western landscape and grey whale will no longer be seen on our Atlantic shores.

Canadians are concerned when they hear that there are only 1,000 giant pandas in the world. We want to preserve this magnificent species. We see the heroic efforts made to keep the Chinese panda species alive and we are very much aware that Canada's heritage is not just our cultures that people bring to the land from other places. Our heritage also constitutes the species that make up this land which is our home, for just as the people who live here give our country a flavour like no other, so do the animal and plant species that make up a great part of the tapestry of Canada.

It is of no small concern that we find that there are hundreds of species in Canada that are either vulnerable, threatened or endangered or, in other words, on the road to extinction. The list includes badgers, chestnut trees, frogs, orchids, owls, snakes, sparrows, turtles and whales. It is a comprehensive list that spans from one end of this country clear to the other.

That is why I am so disappointed to see Bill C-5, an act respecting the protection of wildlife species at risk in Canada. The bill was introduced on February 2, 2001. Here we are, well over a year later, still discussing the bill. It is exactly that kind of glacial government reaction that keeps species on the endangered list or pushes them further down the slippery slope on the way to extinction.

If the government really wanted to save endangered species, it would have a broad education campaign aimed at making Canadians aware of what species live in their neighbourhoods and how to best foster a friendly environment.

For example, in my riding of Port Moody--Coquitlam--Port Coquitlam there is a small stream that flows into a second stream. Pacific salmon spawn in the second stream. Developers wanted to build a road across the small stream and to avoid any possible pollution of the second stream, the one where the salmon spawn, instead of using a viaduct to cross the small stream as is usually done, a bridge was built 70 feet above the small stream and the pylons were put far away from the stream bed, so as not to disturb the habitat. Building that bridge, the David Connector, cost a lot of money but in beautiful British Columbia the awareness and appreciation of our environment makes us prepared to take the extra steps to preserve the habitats of species at risk.

In the case I just mentioned, the federal Liberal government did not throw a single dime towards the cost of building a major bridge instead of a small viaduct. If the government were really concerned about protecting endangered species, it would have used some of the $4 billion plus that it collects from highway fuel taxes to build an infrastructure to bypass the habitats of species at risk.

The government might also have spent some of the money to educate the public, especially young students, as to why such a bridge made sense in that case. Instead of doing that, the city of Port Moody designed and built the bridge, the neighbourhood paid for it and I explained it to concerned constituents.

As I read through Bill C-5 and the group 4 amendments, I did not see the kind of practical problem solving that saved a spawning stream in my riding via the David Connector. Instead I see a government that does not want to involve the public in the broader issue of how to best protect species at risk, does not want federal tax dollars to be part of the solution and seems to be willing to subjugate its commitment to protecting species at risk to the practices of aboriginal communities.

As an MP from the lower mainland, I am very much aware of the recent controversial grey whale hunt by the Makah tribe in Washington state. At the same time, I take certain comfort from the fact that the Makah stopped the hunt in the 1920s because the species was at risk and only considered resuming the hunt at a rate of less than five adult males a year after the grey whale was removed from the endangered species list in 1994.

Today the beluga whale and the bowhead whale, as well as the peary caribou populations are at risk in various parts of the Canadian north.

I am concerned about the creation of a national aboriginal council, now to be renamed the national aboriginal committee. Certainly most Canadians would agree that the native communities in the Canadian north have probably forgotten more about beluga whales than I will ever know in my lifetime. It is clearly appropriate that their deep knowledge of the land on which they live, which is so necessary for their survival, should be drawn upon in our attempt to protect species at risk.

We must however ensure that once the input of the national aboriginal council is taken into account the final regulations bind everyone, native and non-native alike on a level playing field. It would simply be wrong to let race and culture based loopholes allow anyone to kill a member of a species that might be endangered and that Canadians want to protect.

If we had a government that was prepared to listen to the concerns of Canadians, issues like the one I just raised could be quickly decided. Given the appropriate goodwill, there is no doubt in my mind that the hunting and ceremonial concerns of Canada's first nations could be satisfied while protecting the species that shape the land on which we all live.

That however is not how the government wants to do things. Public dialogue and discussions is to this government what kryptonite was to Superman, a dangerous thing to be avoided at all costs.

In my riding of Port Moody--Coquitlam--Port Coquitlam I saw firsthand how public awareness of the importance of spawning streams influenced the decision to build a major bridge rather than a minor viaduct thereby protecting the natural habitat of a species of Pacific salmon.

Let the public in, listen to them, get them involved and they will be a step ahead of the political class every single time. That is why my party is calling for broad public consultations. We think that the public needs to be consulted before stewardship action plans are drawn up and that the proposed text of a stewardship arrangement should be included in the public registry for at least 60 days. Given that these affect not just the landowner but neighbourhood lands as well, anything that would restrict consultation with affected stakeholders should be vigorously opposed.

Further, the way the Liberals have conceived the bill, if a species is at risk and is found in a farmer's field, the government has the right to impose a stewardship action plan without paying the farmer any compensation whatsoever for the loss of his or her land.

Of the 387 species at risk identified by the committee on the status of endangered wildlife in Canada there are three species of moss. These are the apple moss, Haller's apple moss and poor pocket moss.

I believe all Canadians want to see preserved every single one of the 387 species that are identified as being at risk. At the same time, if farmers find themselves in a situation where they will lose a field without any compensation whatsoever because of an endangered species of moss is found on it, those farmers will face tremendous temptation to go ahead and grab the rototiller. That is because the way the law is set up, farmers can lose their land by reporting that a species at risk has been found, and by being good citizens.

Canada's farmers are just as eager as the next person to promote and preserve the at risk species that share the land with us but the law must encourage them to be partners in the preservation effort rather than victims of an ill-conceived government scheme.

This concern is so great across the country that at the recent Canadian Alliance convention in Edmonton two separate resolutions were proposed to deal with this problem. The first read:

We recognize that Endangered Species Legislation must respect the fundamental rights of private property owners, include full compensation for affected landowners, and promote co-operation through incentives...

A second resolution dealing more broadly with the issue of property rights contained the comment:

This policy would require that full compensation be paid to farmers who lose the right to use allor part of their property as the result of regulation by endangered species laws.

The importance of properly compensating landowners cannot be overstated. If the government really wants to protect and preserve species at risk, it will ensure the buy in of those landowners where the species at risk reside. Most of us know that the carrot is better than the stick in this regard. Unfortunately for Canadians, the Liberal government has not learned this lesson.

Because of this, and all the reasons I enumerated above, I urge all members of the House not to support the bill and to vote for a new bill that is full of common sense ideas.

Auditor General of Canada

[The Speaker]

I have the honour to lay upon the table the first report of the Auditor General of Canada for the year 2002.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)( e ), this document is deemed permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Hockey

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was the series that brought a nation together and it was the goal that brought us collectively to our feet. On September 28, 1972, the Huron--Bruce born Paul Henderson scored what is perhaps the most famous goal in hockey history. It was in the dying minutes of game eight of the Canada-Soviet summit series when Henderson slipped the winning goal past the Soviet net minder, Vladislav Tretiak, to clinch the win for Canada.

As Foster Hewitt's words reported the goal to the world, millions of Canadians danced and hugged in a manner reminiscent of only a few other pivotal moments in our history. Never has a single sporting moment meant so much to so many Canadians. The sound of that winning shot reverberated across the Pacific and then from coast to coast to coast. Few Canadians do not know the name of this genuine Canadian hero.

Today, 30 years after that historic moment, although many of his teammates have been given the honour, Henderson has yet to be inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame. Given the importance of preserving Canadian culture perhaps it is time to recognize this truly Canadian hero.

Curling

[Rick Casson, Canadian Alliance, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last Sunday Canada once again rose to the pinnacle of world curling supremacy. The Randy Ferbey Rink from the Ottwell Curling Club in Edmonton, Alberta, won the 2002 world curling championship in Bismark, North Dakota, disposing of Norway 10-5 in the final.

With Randy Ferbey skipping and throwing third stones, Dave Nedohin throwing skip rocks, Scott Pfeifer at second and Marcel Rocque lead, they took on the world's best and brought the crown home to Canada where it belongs. The Randy Ferbey Rink also entertained the crowds at the Brier in Calgary this year, combining sheer talent with hard work and good sportsmanship.

Dave Nedohin's triple raise takeout to score four will rank among the best shots in the history of the game. It proves once again that good sports can win and that one can have some fun along the way.

We in the House of Commons and Canadians from coast to coast to coast congratulate Randy, Dave, Scott and Marcel. They are truly great ambassadors for Canada. We hope to see them next year at the Brier in Halifax.

Geological Survey of Canada

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on April 14 the Geological Survey of Canada celebrated its 160th anniversary. The Geological Survey of Canada which is part of Natural Resources Canada is Canada's oldest scientific agency.

The Geological Survey of Canada has a rich history closely entwined with that of Canada's. Its pioneering geologists were often the first explorers to chart the frontiers of our vast country. Today it is a world leader in the evolution of scientific concepts that allow us to better understand the planet on which we live.

The work of the Geological Survey of Canada gives us knowledge upon which we base critical decisions affecting the development of our lands and waters and our mineral, energy and groundwater resources.

I congratulate those whose dedication and talent have made the Geological Survey of Canada an important part of Canada's fabric.

David N. Weisstub

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to pay tribute to Professor David N. Weisstub. The holder of the Philippe Pinel Chair in Legal Psychiatry and Biomedical Ethics, Faculty of Medicine, Université de Montréal, the French government has made him a knight of the Legion of Honour.

Professor Weisstub enjoys an international reputation in ethics, law and forensic psychiatry. He is honourary president for life of the International Academy of Law and Mental Health, and directs the most important forensic psychiatry journal in the world, the International Journal of Law and Psychiatry . Francophile that he is, he has made a considerable contribution to the international reputation of the psychiatric hospital, located in east Montreal.

Professor Weisstub is one of the few Quebecers and Canadians to receive this high honour for his remarkable contribution to law and medicine, and his scientific contributions, particularly to the Francophonie, primarily via exchanges between Quebec and France.

We wish to express our appreciation and congratulations for all his excellent achievements.

Inuit Community of Nunavik

[Guy St-Julien, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Inuit of Nunavik and the members of the 2002 general assembly of the Makivik Corporation, through the corporation's president, Pita Aatami, are calling upon the Government of Canada to investigate the circumstances surrounding the extermination of all of the dogs in Nouveau-Québec between 1950 and 1975, and demand explanations, apologies and compensation for the Nunavimmiut.

More than 200 interviews were recorded with Inuit whose dogs were put down or who witnessed such acts, and a video will be submitted to Canada. This has gone too long without being settled.

At the Makivik general assembly held at Tasiujaq on April 11, I apologized in my capacity as a Liberal government member in the House of Commons for the extermination of all the dogs in Nouveau-Québec between 1950 and 1975.

Libellules de Joliette

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the region of Lanaudière, and particularly Joliette, can be proud of the benjamin women's volleyball team of Thérèse Martin high school.

Indeed, the Libellules achieved something they had not done in five years when they won the benjamin interprovincial volleyball festival, on March 30. The Libellules, who had to face much taller players and much more experienced teams, used finesse to prevail over power.

Coached by Yvon Turgeon and Véronic Laplante, the team is made up of Caroline Mailhot, Marie-Ève Pelletier-Marion, Alexandra Bisson-Desrochers, Jeanne Liard, Mélissa Lachapelle, Sarah Godin-Blouin, Claudia Bourgeois, Emmanuelle Bourgeois, Catherine Laurin, Christine Champagne, Christine Bourgeois and Gabrielle Duval-Brûlé, not to forget manager Francine Duval and trainer Luc Tessier.

Congratulations to this young team for successfully meeting such a challenge.

Rcmp

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, like most Canadians I appreciate the work of the RCMP most of the time. The final report on the APEC inquiry was released March 27 by the Commission for Public Complaints against the RCMP. Commissioner Shirley Heafey reaffirmed the findings of the interim report which noted that the rights of protesters had been infringed upon and which called for a public apology. So far no apology has been forthcoming. I would urge the RCMP to do so.

Likewise I suggest it heed the privacy commissioner's call for it to remove video cameras situated in downtown Kelowna.

The RCMP needs to show respect for the findings of other duly appointed and mandated officials if it wishes to maintain the confidence of Canadians.

Food and Drug Safety

[Andy Savoy, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the United States is considering legislation to address concerns of bioterrorism and food safety. One provision will require up to 24 hours advance notification for food shipments entering the United States. In our business climate just in time processing is the norm and has helped companies in both the U.S. and Canada function more efficiently.

Potato and produce shippers in my riding of Tobique--Mactaquac often have only hours to fill and deliver loads to clients on the eastern seaboard. This proposed U.S. legislation requiring up to 24 hours notification could have very serious implications to both Canadian and American growers and processors.

I urge every member of the House to lobby senators and members of congress to make them aware of the problems with this proposed legislation. We send 5,000 food shipments a day to the United States. We agree with the intent of their efforts but Canadians and Americans cannot afford to have trade jeopardized by this legislation.

Post-Secondary Education

[John Herron, Progressive Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Speaker, post-secondary education is a national tragedy with tuition rates having risen 126% in the last decade while student debt loads have quadrupled.

Tomorrow a decision will be made on whether my private member's motion on post-secondary education will be deemed votable. The motion would allow students to claim up to 10% of the principal of their Canada student loan annually for a decade as a tax credit provided that they remain in Canada. This motion has received national support from the business community as well as the Canadian Alliance of Students Association, which represents 310,000 post-secondary students. The national director, Liam Arbuckle, stated:

The Liberal Government has listened to us lobby and they agree that changes to post-secondary education need to be made, well now it's time to put their money where their mouth is.

It is high time post-secondary education was deemed a national priority. We must have a public debate in the House on easing the financial burden on students.

Member for Calgary East

[Deepak Obhrai, Canadian Alliance, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my wife Neena, son-in-law Robin, daughters Priti and Kaajal, son Aman and myself would sincerely like to thank Canadians from coast to coast, including members of the House and the Senate, for their prayers and best wishes during the difficult time I underwent from complications arising from heart surgery in February.

The prayers and best wishes were a source of great strength for all of us during this difficult time. We were overwhelmed and touched by the compassion that crossed all cultural and religious boundaries. It made me feel proud to be living in the best country in the world.

Indeed, the family would also like to thank Dr. Maitland, Dr. Traboulsi, Dr. Verma, Dr. Pujara, Dr. Dave and the nursing staff of the intensive care unit and units 91 and 92 of the Foothills Hospital who for us will forever symbolize the care and professionalism of the medical profession.

I thank my colleagues and friends very much.

Byelections in Quebec

[Gérard Binet, Liberal, Frontenac—Mégantic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday evening, strong objections to the tenets of the PQ surfaced during the byelections that were held in Quebec.

Just like in the November byelections, Quebecers made it clear that they feel safer in a united Canada than in a sovereign Quebec.

In light of yesterday's results, many will seriously wonder about PQ policies.

If things are getting slippery for the Parti Quebecois, it is probably because the Liberal values of co-operation, security, stability and respect for democracy are better suited to the fundamental needs of Quebecers.

Liberal members are unquestionably the best promoters of Quebecers' interests, both at the provincial and federal level.

Société Radio-Canada

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as a result of steps taken by the Bloc Quebecois, yesterday, a group of female members of parliament made a joint public statement in support of women working in Quebec and in Moncton who are victims of pay discrimination at Radio-Canada.

In a joint statement, these members from the Bloc Quebecois, the Conservative Party, the New Democratic Party, and the Liberal Party demanded that pay inequities suffered by female employees of Radio-Canada be eliminated as soon as possible.

The women showed proud solidarity on this issue that affects all women: the right to equal pay for equal work.

On behalf of my colleagues from the Bloc Quebecois, I would like to thank all of the women who joined together with us to put an end to this injustice once and for all.

Prime Minister

[André Harvey, Liberal, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, tonight in New York, our Prime Minister will be honoured. The EastWest Institute will be naming him “statesman of the year”.

The mission of the EastWest Institute is to improve dialogue between the former Soviet bloc and the west. By bestowing this distinction on our Prime Minister, the organization is highlighting the exceptional work he has done to include Russia in the G-7, as well as the support we provide for Africa.

This clearly demonstrates Canada's influence and that of our Prime Minister on the international stage. The new partnership for African development is an example of what we are able to do to make the world a better place.

My colleagues join me in congratulating the Prime Minister for receiving this prestigious distinction. Everyone is proud of our Prime Minister.

Action démocratique du Québec

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday's win by the Action démocratique du Québec in the Saguenay byelection signals an important victory for democracy in Canada and in Quebec.

The ADQ candidate, François Corriveau, won 48% of the votes cast in Saguenay, a riding which has long been a PQ stronghold. His victory is a clear sign that the people of Quebec want to elect a conservative alternative.

Here in Ottawa, we are facing this same disastrous democratic deficit: old ideas from the government and under-representation of opposition voices. The victory in Saguenay is a small one, but it will hold out hope for Canadians interested in democracy.

It is also a good sign for the new parties. The Canadian Alliance sees this up close and we take heart from this important victory. Bravo, Mario Dumont.

Housing

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform colleagues that April is New Homes Month. This is an annual event sponsored by the Canadian Home Builders' Association to profile building industry professionals, their products and services.

It is also an occasion to provide consumers with home buying information. As Canada's national housing agency Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation is the most reliable and objective source of housing information in Canada.

CMHC plays a key role in helping many Canadians make informed housing choices. Products such as the Homebuying Step-by-Step Guide , Before you Renovate and the About Your House series provides Canadians with a wealth of information to help them sort through the many choices and decisions involved in buying, renovating and maintaining their homes.

Sports

[Carol Skelton, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege yesterday, as all of us did, of meeting with members of the Canadian Olympic and Paralympic teams. It was an honour to meet these dedicated athletes and coaches.

On behalf of the riding of Saskatoon--Rosetown--Biggar I thank Kasper Wirz of Vanscoy for his dedication to the Paralympic movement in Canada. Mr. Wirz was the cross country skiing and biathlon coach at the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Paralympic Games. Mr. Wirz was a competitor for many years and is currently head coach of the Cross Country Canada Disabled National Team.

I thank all the coaches and athletes who represented Canada so well in the 2002 Winter Olympic Games. We are proud of all them.

Infrastructure

[Hélène Scherrer, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on April 5, the Economic Development Agency of Canada announced 26 new projects for Quebec City under the Canada-Quebec Infrastructure Works Program.

For the riding of Charlesbourg, this will mean an investment of over $2 million under sub-component 1 of the program, the purpose of which is to promote projects to repair, replace, expand, restore or build water, sewage or water treatment infrastructures. Several other applications were submitted under transportation and culture and recreation infrastructures.

This kind of investment in municipalities allows us to improve infrastructures that have a high need, to pursue the Canadian government's environment and sustainable development objectives and, as a result, to improve the quality of life of the inhabitants of Charlesbourg.

Government Expenditures

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, there is something wrong with the priorities of the government when it decides that the most important priority is buying two luxury jets.

The government has different priorities than the people of Canada. Making real investments in health care and national security, paying down the debt and offering tax relief for hard-working families who play by the rules should be the priority.

Could the Prime Minister explain to Canadians why purchasing these two luxury jets for his cabinet was such a high priority?