Mr. Speaker, it is really important to refer to the question of privilege which was raised with you yesterday, which brought into focus some decisions of the committee that I chair. Before you rule, you should have a total picture of exactly what happened from both sides.
The background of the hiring of expert advisers to the committee for its work on the study of the Canadian broadcasting system goes back to the spring of 2001, including statements made in the House by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage and by the Minister of Canadian Heritage to the effect that the minister and the department were thinking of setting up an expert commission or task force to look into the question of the state of Canadian broadcasting, something which the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage was proceeding to do almost at the same time.
Some of us made representations to the minister at the time that if she set up this independent task force of experts, it would detract from the work of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. As a result, I wrote to the minister suggesting that the experts be fused into our committee work so that they would give us advice as parliamentarians and there would be only one report going to the House of Commons. This was agreed to.
Naturally, the question of funds was important. We already had a research team which was supplied by the House of Commons and obviously using additional experts meant additional costs. It was agreed tentatively that I would communicate with the ministry to establish that the ministry would fund the work of expert advisers which had been its idea in the first place. This is what happened.
Meanwhile, our committee was seized with the whole issue. A subcommittee was formed to recommend two or three experts to our committee. The subcommittee met on a few occasions and eventually by a normal process of selection, decided to recommend that two eminent professors and eminent experts in communications and media, Dr. Marc Raboy from the University of Montreal, and Dr. David Taras from the University of Calgary, be taken on by the committee as expert advisers.
In this connection, I wrote a long letter to the deputy minister on December 4, suggesting the hiring of Drs. Raboy and Taras and giving all the various parameters of the costs and so forth. Meanwhile, we circulated the CV of Professor Raboy and also of Professor David Taras to all the members of the committee on December 5 in anticipation of a meeting which was to take place the same week and actually took place on December 6.
When the meeting took place, all the members had received the CVs of these two experts. A motion was put before the committee that set out all the various terms of hiring of these two experts, and it was quite clear to all the members of the committee that the funding would come from the Department of Canadian Heritage.
According to the rules in place, a memorandum of understanding was struck between the Department of Canadian Heritage and the House of Commons and approved by both parties under their own wording. This memorandum inter alia says that the experts “will provide advice to the standing committee as it carries out its broadcasting study”.
When the MOU was struck between the two ministers, the department and the House of Commons, a contract of services was also established with the expert advisers, and it is several pages long. I will be very pleased to make it available to you, Mr. Speaker, including a schedule which is a mandate as between the expert advisers and the committee.
This mandate specifies that the contractor, that is each one, Doctors Raboy and Taras, is acting under the aegis and mandate of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. It is quite clear that they are acting under the directives and under the mandate of the committee for Canadian Heritage.
The motion was approved on a unanimous basis by all members of the committee. The necessary expenses were filed by the two experts and eventually reimbursed to the House of Commons by the Department of Canadian Heritage. Everything was fine and dandy until the contract expired on March 31 and had to be renewed on exactly the same formula.
A business meeting of the committee was held on March 20 to pass what we thought would be a routine motion. However at that time the MP for Sarnia--Lambton raised the whole question of conflict of interest and went into a long argument about the question of conflict of interest, at which point the member for Kootenay--Columbia started to have doubts about his first decision to approve the motion back in December and the member for Quebec also expressed some doubts. Therefore we decided to adjourn the meeting.
You may recall, Mr. Speaker, that on the same evening I called you on the telephone to tell you that this proposition had been made that there might be a conflict of interest and you suggested that the best person to approach would be the chief clerk of the House of Commons to find out whether this was completely bona fide, which I did.
On March 21 in the morning I called on the chief clerk and had a conversation with him. He confirmed with me that this practice had been carried on between the House of Commons and various departments on several occasions in two ways: either the refunding of contracts as was the case here or sometimes the lending of officials and experts to a committee for a period of time. He even offered to provide me in writing some precedents in this connection.
I must admit that at this point I myself recalled something that I did not remember when we had the meeting on March 20. I served for almost a year and a half on a review of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. We sat for a year and a half at least and we travelled all across Canada. Two people were seconded to us by the Department of the Environment, Mrs. Ruth Whery and Mr. Harvey Lehrer. They spent all their time with the members of committee, travelled with us and gave us advice. This was certainly a case that I lived myself. In fact the chief clerk gave me in writing one case from the eighties and he said “If you want some more precedents I'll be very glad to supply them to you”. He gave me his blessing that what we did was perfectly in order.
I went back to our committee meeting on March 21. I advised the members of my visit with the chief clerk and what he had said. A vote was taken on the motion to hire the two expert advisers on the same basis as before. The vote at the request of the member for Kootenay--Columbia and I think as well at the request of the member for Quebec was taken on a recorded basis. The motion was carried with the two latter members, the member for Kootenay--Columbia and the member for Quebec, voting against it.
Mr. Speaker, with the consent of the House I would be glad to make all the papers available to you. They are very clear. The hon. member for Sarnia--Lambton felt his privilege as a member of parliament had been breached by the procedure. I find that totally exaggerated and outrageous. In what sense was his privilege breached? The committee remains completely autonomous in making its decisions as does each of its members including the hon. member.
The contract states clearly that whatever work is done by the contractor is done under the aegis and mandate of the committee. We have received no direction at any time from either the department or the minister. We stand totally autonomous and independent in our decision making. Of course we co-operate with the ministry. If it is doing a study and we can obtain the study of course we will obtain it, but that is not to say we are not autonomous. It is not to say that contractors who have no business with the department or the minister and who act totally for us are in a breach or conflict of interest.
I say this in friendship because I have a lot of regard for my hon. colleague from Kootenay--Columbia. We have a lot of mutual respect in our work together. I understand what he is feeling. Professor Taras made statements with regard to the Canadian Alliance that he may not have liked or approved of. He gave me a copy of the letter he wrote to Professor Taras and I saw reply he received.
This has nothing to do with conflict of interest. It is another issue altogether. I will quote from the contract between the expert advisers and the committee. It clearly states:
The Contractor shall not comment in public on the Committee's deliberations relating to the broadcasting study, which will be the sole responsibility of the Committee. However, the foregoing does not prohibit the experts from writing or speaking on broadcasting issues generally, such as would be the case in the normal conduct of their professional duties.
Surely it is not for the committee to tell experts what to say about matters relating to their confidence. It is interesting that the CVs of both experts were circulated to all members of the committee including my hon. friend from Kootenay--Columbia.
I will quote from the CV of Professor Taras which all hon. members have in their offices. He is a TV commentator on Global TV's Morning Edition . Morning Edition has the largest audience of any morning program in Calgary. He is a frequent on air commentator for CBC radio and television. He has given commentary on the Alliance leadership race of 2000; the Calgary civic election of 1998; the Alberta provincial elections of 1989, 1993 and 1997; the Canadian federal elections of 1993, 1997 and 2000; the Alberta and federal government budgets of 1993, 1997, 2000 and 2001; the Quebec referendum of 1995; the Canadian federal election of 2000; and the Alberta provincial election of 2001. He gives approximately 150 media interviews or commentaries every year. He is a jury member of the Canadian Journalism Foundation and received an annual award for excellence in journalism in 1996.
It is not as if this comes out of the blue. Professor Taras is a commentator and political scientist. He comments on these things. We may not always like it. I sympathize with my hon. friend over there because these things sometimes feel exaggerated and hurt people. In his reply to the hon. member Professor Taras says he has commented negatively about the Liberal government and other parties.
I do not know what Professor Taras' political affiliation is. Nor do I do care. He is there to advise us and speak to the committee about questions of communications in our study of broadcasting on which he is a well recognized expert. All the documents are official, above board and tested. They are taken from the work of committee officials, the House of Commons and the department and are in proper form.
As confirmed to me by the chief clerk of the House, there are precedents. I have lived a precedent with regard to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development for a year and a half or more. The matter is a total exaggeration of the facts. For the hon. member to raise a question of privilege and say his privilege has been affected in any way is a total exaggeration.
Mr. Speaker, I hope that in light of the facts I have brought before you, and I will submit all the documentation to you if the House will permit, you will reject the question of privilege out of hand.
