House of Commons Hansard #179 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was microbreweries.
Joe Clark Progressive Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
So the answer is, Mr. Speaker, that the government does not need the bill and it already has the powers it needs. What it wants to do is shut down parliament.
I assume the government intends to have Bill C-55 enacted in its present form. In that case, if the government has to respond to an emergency created by a terrorist threat, which law will the government apply? Will it be the Emergencies Act, which gives parliament some control over ministers, or the new bill, which does not?
Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, we are not shutting down parliament. We are introducing a bill in front of parliament at this moment which will be debated tomorrow. There is no shutting down of parliament at all. On the contrary, we are involving parliament in the process to make sure that we have a system of security in Canada to protect the Canadian people, but at the same time we have to make sure that the rights of Canadians are protected. The bill will achieve both goals.
Grant Hill Canadian Alliance Macleod, AB
Mr. Speaker, the UN says through the Geneva convention that we do not have to accept anybody at our border who claims to be a refugee and is coming from a safe country.
Is the Prime Minister trying to tell us that we cannot turn away failed refugee claimants at our border just because they are coming here from the States? Is that what he is trying to say?
Denis Coderre LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Speaker, is the member telling us that we should shut the border, that everybody who comes to the border and wants to be a refugee in this country does not have a chance?
Does he ask us not to fulfill our international duties? He should be ashamed of himself.
Grant Hill Canadian Alliance Macleod, AB
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the immigration minister wondered if there was a franchise for Le Pen here in Canada. With the odours of corruption coming from the government, we quite frankly think that maybe it is another French personality, Pépé Le Pew. That is what the minister is, Pépé Le Pew.
Denis Coderre LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
First, Mr. Speaker, there was no question. I am very proud to be a part of the government because not only do we believe that the nation is built on immigration, but we never make any linkage between refugees and immigrants as being a bunch of terrorists, like they are doing. We do not want to shut down the border because we believe this is a country of hope, a country of tolerance and a country of liberty.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Public SecurityOral Question Period
The Speaker
Order, please. The hon. member for Saint-Jean.
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Speaker, not only are military zones determined by a single individual, the Minister of National Defence, but a citizen's right to legal recourse is still non-existent, as it was in the earlier version of the bill.
Does the government not think that it is seriously violating citizens' rights when it denies them any right of recourse for an action ensuing from the creation of a military zone or the resulting associated measures?
Art Eggleton LiberalMinister of National Defence
Mr. Speaker, there are no rights taken away from any citizens.
If they do not think the declaration of a military zone to protect a ship or three or four planes is reasonable, they can go to the court. They can challenge it. If it somehow affects their business then they can also put in a claim to the Government of Canada, as they can with any other area that the federal or local police happen to cordon off for similar kinds of purposes. Every right of claim and every right of challenge in the court exists.
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Speaker, I think that the minister should read his own bill again. The bill he has just introduced suspends citizens' right to appeal to the courts. I remind him that the right to legal recourse is one of the cornerstones of our democratic society.
By suspending this right, is the government not sending its own troops the message that what it and they are doing violates the rights of Canadians and Quebecers?
Art Eggleton LiberalMinister of National Defence
Mr. Speaker, the member is not giving the correct picture of this. The standard claim procedure is being followed. A claim can be put in, just as it can in any other similar circumstance. There is also the right to challenge if any citizen does not believe that the minister of defence has acted in a reasonable way in the declaration of the zone.
Ted White Canadian Alliance North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Speaker, the government knows that there are more than six million genuine refugees in UN refugee camps around the world, yet it allows our refugee processing system to get clogged with bogus claimants from the United States.
Why is the government ignoring the pleas and desires of genuine refugees in order to facilitate bogus claimants from the U.S. who can afford high-priced consultants?
Denis Coderre LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Speaker, there are two things. First, regarding the immigration consultants, we agree and I will have a plan of action. We are working right now to regulate immigration consultants. Second, we have to be very careful. What would we do with a lady and her children at the border? Do we shut the door and say we do not want to see them here? We have an international duty. I think we have to be very careful about the kinds of things we are saying today.
Ted White Canadian Alliance North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Speaker, even a Liberal must be able to recognize when someone is being honest and truthful to refugee claimants. The fact is that refugee claimants who come here from the United States are jumping the queue and there are genuine refugee claimants in UN camps throughout the world.
The minister has not answered the question. Why is the government allowing the system to be clogged with bogus refugee claimants from the United States?
Denis Coderre LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Speaker, some of them have American visas too. The question is not, should we let them go? The question is, right now we are putting in place a new system, we are screening it, and we have that priority for security, to secure the Canadian people, but at the same time we have to fulfill our international duty.
The member is telling us that Canada should lose its reputation because he feels that all refugees are dishonest and are terrorists. I do not think that.
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, the David Suzuki Foundation claims that application of the Kyoto protocol has considerable advantages for the Canadian economy. The development of wind technology is one of these.
Does the federal government not realize that, if it devoted to the development of wind energy an effort similar to that it has devoted to developing the Hibernia oil project, the Murdochville area and Quebec would become world leaders in the production of the latest wind energy equipment?
Herb Dhaliwal LiberalMinister of Natural Resources
Mr. Speaker, of course for the government wind energy is very important. That is why the government put in $260 million to promote wind energy across this country, because we know that this is the future of the country. It helps the environment and affects climate change. We are committed not only to wind energy but to renewable resources across this country.
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, I understand the minister's response, but we are far from the $7,000 per capita that went to Newfoundland for the Hibernia project.
By investing in the wind energy sector, does the government realize that it would be making progress toward attaining the objectives of Kyoto, by contributing to developing clean and renewable energy, as well as making a significant contribution to the Gaspé and the Murdochville region?
Herb Dhaliwal LiberalMinister of Natural Resources
Mr. Speaker, maybe the hon. member did not hear my answer. We believe in wind energy. That is why we are spending $260 million.
If the hon. member wants to advance that, maybe he should talk to the Government of Quebec, for it to put up similar funds to support wind energy so we can promote it and get more renewable resources, energy and green power from across this country.
Diane Ablonczy Canadian Alliance Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Speaker, I would like the House to regard a quote from the Liberal chair of the immigration committee. In an interview, he said:
If you are coming from a safe third country, that is, the United States, you are not being persecuted and you are in that country, why do you want to make a refugee claim here? We should be able to deport them and send them back to the United States. What the United States wants to do with them is their own problem. It shouldn't become our problem.
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations
Mr. Speaker, that is precisely why we are negotiating a safe third agreement with the United States.
Diane Ablonczy Canadian Alliance Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Speaker, once again, the Deputy Prime Minister knows full well that as a sovereign country, and he keeps making the point that we are a country sovereign from the United States, it is up to us who we decide to let across our border. It is not up to us to beg the United States to let us refuse refugee claimants from its country. Surely the Deputy Prime Minister knows that.
When will the government implement a policy of not accepting claimants from the United States and preserve the system for people in desperate need?
Denis Coderre LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Speaker, there are two things. First, we need to do this in order to fulfill our international duties to negotiate a safer country. This is about people and we want to make sure we do not make any mistakes regarding that.
Second, of course we can make our own decision but, because we are signing that international duty, everybody seeking to become a refugee has the right to due process. We will fulfill that. I would rather be on my side.