House of Commons Hansard #188 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was embryos.

Topics

Tax CreditPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Gary Lunn Canadian Alliance Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I take exception to a few comments my friend from the Liberal Party of Canada made on the fact that the government had invested $1.5 billion in education. He did not tell us that it cut $5.3 billion from post-secondary education.

It is the same old story with the Liberal government. It gives with one hand but takes four times as much back with the other hand. It really has put students who try to excel at a disadvantage.

The motion put forth by the member for Fundy--Royal is excellent and is worth reading again. It says:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should consider introducing a tax credit based on the repayment of Canada Student Loan principal, to a maximum of 10% of the principal, per year, for the first ten years after graduation provided the individual remains in Canada.

He has hit virtually every point in the motion. I will be supporting it. The only thing I might have changed is that instead of would consider, the government would just do it.

There is a reason why I think this is so positive. I went to law school at the University of Victoria. A number of my colleagues had significant student loans and it placed them in hardship upon graduation. They had low incomes when they entered the workforce for the first time. They had a difficult time repaying the loans as they had just started their careers. There is no question that their investments in education will be compounded in what they pay in tax dollars over their lifetimes. There is no question the government will get much more back in income tax from them over the years than it would if they were not educated.

It is an excellent motion. What does it do? It gives students a 10% tax credit each year for 10 years for their student loans. It is not a big number item for the government. These people generally are not paying a lot of taxes in their early years of employment anyway. They are in a low tax bracket. They are struggling to make ends meet. They are just getting out of school.

The other point that is good is the individual has to remain in Canada. One of my passions and why I got into parliament is the brain drain. The government will argue that it has a positive brain gain but it is not telling us is that we are losing some of our very best and brightest students to our neighbours to the south.

Those very best and brightest students are the future economic engine of this country. They are the future entrepreneurs and CEOs who will create wealth for this country and create permanent lasting jobs that the government cannot, so that we have a strong tax base and can afford the social programs that are so important to us.

The motion goes right to the heart of keeping our graduates in Canada in their early years of life after graduation before they become rooted into a community, before they become involved in a long term relationships and before they become loyal to a company. We need them to stay in Canada upon graduation. We need to give them an incentive to stay here. The motion would do that by giving them a 10% tax credit on a student loan each year for 10 years. By doing that I think we would keep them in Canada.

It brings me back to a story of a mother who came into my riding office last June. There were tears streaming down the poor lady's face. She had just put her son on a plane to the U.S. after he graduated from the University of Victoria. He got a job and was moving there. The opportunities were there for him. She said that she had had dreams of her children and grandchildren growing up in Canada.

She really brought it home to me that her son had a good opportunity to work for a U.S. company, that he would probably meet a girl there, get married and establish a family there. That happens in our younger years. People become loyal to a company, and that is where he will establish his roots.

The point I am trying to make is that it is critical that we get their roots established in Canada in the first 10 years of their employment so that these people can become the economic backbone of this country. We have to keep the very best and brightest here.

I applaud the member for Fundy--Royal for bringing this motion before the House. It is an incredibly important one that should not be overlooked. It is one of the passions that got me into parliament.

We could tweak this when it gets put into legislation to make it stronger, but by and large it hits the high points by giving a tax credit. Once a person graduates, 100% of their student loan could be forgiven over 10 years. In that 10 year time frame these students would likely set roots in Canada, become loyal to companies and make this country prosper.

I believe right now that the average student loan owed by students when they graduate is around $25,000. I did not have a student loan when I went to school. After working for 10 years, I went back to school on my savings. However many of my fellow students had significant student loans when they were going to law school. They struggled to make ends meet in those early years on very modest incomes. This motion would go a long way to encouraging them to get into the workforce. They only get 10% a year for the first 10 years. There is no point in waiting. This encourages them to get into the workplace early and encourages them to stay in Canada. They will obviously become taxpayers.

I do not look at this as a cost to the Canadian government, but rather as more of an investment. If we keep these people in Canada now, over their lifelong career they will pay a lot of taxes and provide a lot of jobs, thereby providing to our economy.

I encourage all members to support this motion. If this motion passes tomorrow, I hope the government will act on it quickly, unlike other motions passed in the House that do not see the light of day.

I look around in the House right now and I see a number of pages, all first year students at one of the universities in Ottawa. I have no doubt in my mind that if some of them do not have student loans now they will have when they graduate.

This is a very well thought out motion. I spoke with the member for Fundy--Royal and told him of a similar bill I thought of that would have done the same thing over a five year period. I cannot stress the importance of giving our youth, our most important resource in society, every chance to succeed.

Many youth struggle to get into university. Imagine if we could keep these people in Canada once they get out of university. Their roots would be established here and they would become our economic engine in the years ahead and create meaningful lasting jobs. They would become the backbone of our economy. It is critical that we keep them here and this would be an excellent start. This would be an investment in our country's future. It would not be a cost to keep them here. It would be a very positive move.

I encourage all members of the House to support the motion of the member for Fundy--Royal to create a tax credit for students in the first 10 years upon graduation. It is an excellent opportunity. We could then push the government to hopefully bring this from a motion to legislation before the House. We would all be better off for it.

Tax CreditPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Rick Borotsik Progressive Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a couple of comments. First, I thank the member for Saanich--Gulf Islands for his intervention. It sounds like maybe he wants to renew his old acquaintance with the Progressive Conservative Party. He is always welcome. He recognizes talent when he sees it. He certainly recognizes the ability of members to put forward legislation that should be accepted by the House.

I would also like to congratulate the member for Fundy--Royal for dealing with an issue that is so very important in Canadian society today and so very important to the hundreds of thousands of university and college students who recognize that there is a serious problem. Unfortunately they also recognize that the government is doing absolutely nothing to resolve it.

Therefore it takes someone like the member for Fundy--Royal to take the initiative to bring forward some really good, solid ideas that the government could latch on to and say, “Isn't it absolutely wonderful that we now have the ability to do something to assist these students”. What do the government members do? I heard some comments from members on the government side.

I was here when the member for Etobicoke North rose and talked about how this motion should not be supported. One excuse he used was that we should not be rewarding individuals by discharging their debt.

That totally amazes me. I hope all students were listening to that, that we should not reward them by discharging their debt. We should be rewarding them for going to school and for making sure this country has properly educated people in place. We should be rewarding them for staying in this country and putting forward their ability so that we can generate an economy that will maintain our standards.

However, what does the government do? It says that it is doing enough, that it is wonderful and that we should not listen to anyone else who has ideas. The member for Etobicoke North said that we have the millennium scholarship fund. Whoop-de-do. The millennium scholarship and $1.50 will buy a cup of coffee. It is not doing what is necessary right now to assist students.

What else did the hon. member say? He said that there was enough assistance right now from the government. If students are so good and because of their abilities they get scholarships, the government taxes the scholarships. Not only is the government not assisting students to go to school, not only is it not assisting them in discharging their debt, but now it is charging students more taxes because of their ability and initiative. That is absolutely scandalous.

Tax CreditPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

It punishes performance.

Tax CreditPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Rick Borotsik Progressive Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

It is awful. It punishes performance, as the member for Fundy--Royal said.

Let me say a couple of things. First, yes, we are a resource based country. However we recognized a long time ago that the real value we have in this country is the value that is between our ears and the students' value between their ears. Therefore we insist and encourage students to get their education so they can be a contributing member of society. However there is a reality.

The reality is something that the government is sticking its head in the sand and trying not to realize. The reality is those students have accrued huge debt to invest in themselves. It is an investment in themselves and I appreciate that but should we not assist them? We have heard in the debates here that tuition fees in this country have gone up by 125% over the last 10 years. They are going up more every day and will be somewhere around 200% by the year 2008, over the last 10 to 12 years. That is only part of the cost that students incur when they go to school.

Students in my community, if they come to my community, come from some place else. There is housing, food, transportation and clothing. Those are the expenses of students while they go to school. These costs on average generate about $10,000 a year in costs. The tuition is a major portion of that but certainly the other costs are also major.

In order for them to pay those costs they incur debt. That debt over a four year degree could be somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40,000. I had an opportunity to go to a presentation from Canadian Bankers Association, which is also concerned about the debt students are accumulating.If we run the numbers on that $40,000, it effectively means a $500 monthly payment for the student. That is a mortgage payment for a lot of people. That mortgage, without a house, as has been mentioned, is something that will go on for a number of years. All we are saying is let us help them with that $40,000 debt. The suggestion of this party and the member for Fundy--Royal is to allow them to use 10% of that debt as a direct write-off to their income taxes over 10 years, as long as they reside in this country. They will be much the better for it.

There would be a very small capital cost for the government. This is a very good, solid, sensible idea. The government speakers against the motion are saying that the government already is doing enough and therefore we should not listen to anyone else.

In fact, everyone in the House should be voting for the motion. I would encourage them to do so, and when they do so to think about the students, the people they actually are helping with this motion.

Tax CreditPrivate Members' Business

6:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

I thank the hon. member for his co-operation. The time provided for debate has expired. Pursuant to order made earlier today, all questions necessary to dispose of Motion No. 478 are deemed put and a recorded division is deemed demanded and deferred until Wednesday, May 22 at the end of question period.

It being 6.52 p.m., the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.52 p.m.)