Debates of May 21st, 2002

New Member Introduced

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Perhaps in terms of security a seat belt should be put on his seat because it is called the ejection seat. I am delighted to be facing my eighth opposition leader.

He is a young man with very good experience. He started his career here as a young man working for a member of parliament. After that he participated in the creation of a party. He became a member of that party and was a good member of parliament for a term. We were sorry to see him leave but we are not disappointed to see him back.

He is a man of strong convictions who expresses himself very well. He wants to serve the country well. His views are well known and well documented. In fact I took a refresher course over the weekend. I hope it will not be used too often but it will permit the leader the occasion to use it once in a while.

I want to congratulate him. He understood what Canada is all about at a very early age. He also learned French when he was very young and he speaks Canada's other official language well. We wish him a very good and a very long stay as leader of the official opposition.

He has a nice family, kids and a lovely wife. Wives do not want to move too often and now that he is in Stornoway, we would like her and the family to stay there for a long time. She is a lady of great judgment. She said, and I agree entirely with her, that her role model is Aline. She is a lady with the same great judgment that I had when I was 23 and I married Aline.

We wish good luck to the Leader of the Opposition. We will have good debates. However there is a reality in that everyone in the House has been elected to serve his or her constituents and everyone has been elected to serve the country. In having a good democracy it is very important that we have these debates. When I have the occasion to travel in the world and come back to Canada, I am always proud of the fact that we have a real democracy here where we have change and where the government has the opportunity to make sure the opposition remains well divided for a long time. We wish things will remain the same for many years. I want the new Leader of the Opposition to have many, many years to learn how to do the job on the job.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I should take a moment to respond to the kind words of the Prime Minister.

First, I would like to say to all members that it is wonderful to be back and to see all the familiar faces, and even a few friends. I have been asked many times why I would come back after all these years. I have explained that with statements by members, long debates over the estimates, committee meetings and the debate over the Mace, it has all been too much to stay away from.

There is one reason I came back. Some members will know it has been reported that I was four years old when the Prime Minister first took his seat in the House of Commons. What is not known is that of course I was an avid reader of Hansard at the time. I recall reading some of the early speeches of the Prime Minister and turning to my mother, who is here today, and saying “Mom, someone has to do something to stop that guy”.

Seriously, the first time I met the Prime Minister—he will not remember the encounter—was during a meeting of students at the University of Calgary, just before his first run at becoming the leader of the Liberal Party. We talked about nuclear arms and controversial issues of the time. On that day, I saw someone who should never be underestimated. I have no intention of making that mistake.

I am his eighth Leader of the Opposition. However, I am in a privileged position in that besides myself and my party, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Minister of Industry and of course the Minister of Finance are all wishing that I will be his last opposition leader.

Just before I wind up, I would like to thank a couple of people. There are so many people I could thank in my party, but I would especially like to thank the two people who brought me in today. I am very thankful for the assistance of the hon. member for Calgary Northeast who chaired my byelection victory in Calgary Southwest. I would be remiss if I did not thank the outgoing Leader of the Opposition, the hon. member for West Vancouver--Sunshine Coast. He did a great job not just for our party but for the House and the country. However, Mr. Speaker, you do have to tell him that he has to return the contents of the wine cellar. I insist on this.

[The Speaker]

I think that is an internal party matter.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that I may not put on as good a party as he does, but there are some members of my family, including my wife and others, who do know how to have a good time so we would appreciate it.

I also thank the electors of Calgary Southwest for sending me here. It is an important riding for our party not just because it is a very special place in and of itself but because it is the riding of our party's founder, Preston Manning, whose legacy I hope to do honour to in this Chamber.

Last but not least, I would quickly like to thank my family, my wife, my children, my mother, my parents who are here today, for all their love and support. I know they will encourage me to keep my eye on some of the important things in life.

Finally, I will start my first day here by hoping that we always remember that in spite of our differences, we share a great deal as people, as members who represent our constituents, their families and their needs which tend to be the same in all parts of the country. We should not forget despite all our problems the great blessings we have in our country, a country that God has given unlimited resources to. We have been further blessed, as I have said many times, by the people who have come from all parts of the country, through the generations, to build the country. We should never settle for mediocrity. We should do all we can in the House and elsewhere to build this great land to its full potential.

[The Speaker]

Members will note that we are beginning oral question period 20 minutes later than usual. We will therefore continue until 3.20 p.m.

The hon. leader of the official opposition.

Government Contracts

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the media is reporting today yet another scandal involving federal advertising contracts. After examining a public works audit, it has been estimated that public works paid at least 10 times too much to Groupe Polygone for sponsoring a Montreal hunting and fishing show.

Given the growing evidence of widespread waste and mismanagement of government advertising business and the fact that the government's incompetent handling of its advertising and sponsorship is already under review, will the Prime Minister stop the waste and abuse right now and order a freeze of all discretionary government advertising?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, at the request of the minister of public works, the auditor general looked into these files, recommended some action and is looking at the program as such.

The sponsorship program has existed in Canada for a long time. It is useful in every riding, in every part of Canada. It is a good program. If there are some problems with the management of some elements of it, of course we will look at the report of the auditor general and remedy the faults. However, I think that many organizations in Canada need this program to be carried out for the good of all Canadians.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is great to say that there are auditor general's examinations going on and of course there may be a police investigation, but what I think the people of Canada are looking for is action now from the government.

All the government's advertising activities are under review because of waste, abuse and mismanagement. The government appears to react only when the opposition or the media draw attention to its actions.

Will the Prime Minister provide a list of all the discretionary advertising and sponsorship contracts so that we can immediately get to the bottom of things—

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is a system that allows members to obtain all the information they wish. It is all available.

In fact, the government has acted. In 1999, when auditors pointed out a problem to the then minister, we took steps to improve the program. Some of the charges date from then.

The current minister of public works has added new reforms to ensure that the errors of the past are not repeated.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I think we are all tired of getting this information through access to information and through the media, through all these other channels. We would hope the Prime Minister would do the right thing and make this information immediately available.

Today's reports on Groupe Polygone deal with an internal audit that found problems two years ago. This is the same outfit that hugely overspent tax dollars on l'Almanach du peuple . Now it seems that this audit found the government paid a grossly inflated amount to sponsor a hunting and fishing show.

Could the Prime Minister explain why this mismanagement was kept quiet for two years and why it always takes an access to information request or an auditor general's report--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly why we have auditors: to look at the books. In the past the auditor reported to the House of Commons only once a year. In order to make sure that we were more up to date about the problems of administration, the auditor general can now report four times a year. In terms of all the information the new Leader of the Opposition is asking for, he should know that all the information is already available.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, to me it looks like the Prime Minister likes secrets.

Here is another issue. Transelec, a company from the Prime Minister's riding, got a questionable contract for $6.3 million. Now it is up by $1.3 million because of cost overruns.

Will the Prime Minister stand in the House today and tell the Canadian public that we will not waste another nickel of taxpayers' money on this company?

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, the government has a contract with the government of Mali, which was a memorandum of understanding that we fulfill the terms under that contract and we have paid the terms and conditions under that contract.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

The auditor general said plainly that this company should not even have bid on the contract.

Hon. members will notice from the answer that we did not get any indication of whether or not the $1.3 million will be spent or not.

I will ask the question again. Will this minister stand up and tell the Canadian public that we will not waste one more nickel on this company from the Prime Minister's riding? Yes or no.

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, very clearly, as I have said already, our contract, our agreement, was with the government of Mali. We have fulfilled the terms of that contract and we have paid the government under the memorandum of understanding. That is where that situation is right now.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this past May 8, the Prime Minister described the RCMP and auditor general's investigations as “quite sufficient”. Since then, we have learned that too much was paid to Polygone, that all manner of commissions went to Groupaction and Everest, that their presidents had direct access to Alfonso Gagliano, and that his successor has stayed at a property owned by Claude Boulay.

Since the RCMP investigation will be limited to Groupaction and the auditor general's to management practices, does the Prime Minister realize that, with all these revelations, it is necessary for a public inquiry to be held in order to look into the entire political dimension of awarding contracts to cronies?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general is looking at all these files at the present time; this is her role. She has a mandate to look at all the files, all the contracts, and to report to the House of Commons. This is the system that has been in place for a long time. She has said that she is going to make a report on the sponsorship programs, and we await that report.

If there has been abuse, corrective actions will be taken. If people have received money to which they were not entitled, they will have to pay it back. If people have committed criminal acts, they will have to face the courts.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I imagine this is going to be like the CINAR case, when the government refused to co-operate with the RCMP. That story is well known.

If there is no problem, why is the Prime Minister scared of a public inquiry? The auditor general restricted her examination to the administrative aspect. The entire public dimension, the ability to summon witnesses, is not possible with the auditor general. Is he going to call a public inquiry in order to make a clean breast of things and to allow the public to see the reality?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general's work is not just an accounting type audit. Her mandate is to look into the usefulness of the program, and to report to the House of Commons.

In the past, the auditor general was expected to report on just the accounting aspect. Now there is an entitlement to report on value for money. We have confidence in the auditor general, and I know she is going to do a good job.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the condo of the president of Groupe Everest, which was used by the minister of public works, the minister, in his defence, produced a copy of a cheque apparently written by his son to cover the costs.

Will the minister admit that producing a photocopy of the front of a cheque is insufficient, and that we need to see the back in order to see who cashed it and when it was cashed?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the cottage that my family rented for a weekend, we certainly paid the market price, I believe. We also covered our own other expenses. I also have proof to support all this.

That said, even though I do not think any harm was done, if the member is asking me if I would do it again, clearly the answer is no.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of public works gave a very nice answer, however that was not my question.

In his defence, he produced a photocopy of a cheque that was apparently issued to pay for the condo. My question—and it is one journalists have asked and he has refused to answer—is this: Will he produce the reverse side of the cheque? If the front is public, I find it difficult to understand why he is keeping the reverse private.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I myself have not produced anything to the media. This is an expense incurred by another member of the family. I explained this to members and the media.

I repeat what I said earlier: although no harm was done, and despite the fact that we paid the market value, I repeat for the member opposite that, obviously, it is not something I would do again.