Debates of May 27th, 2002

Government Contracts

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, we have already noted the contracts were given in accordance with treasury board guidelines by the Department of Canadian Heritage. The fundamental point is that the member was not a minister at the time that he received this refuted benefit. He is not subject therefore to the code at the time he was merely a member of parliament. Nor is any member of the House subject to such a code, which is one of the reasons we are proposing that such a code be adopted.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister had an obligation to tell the truth which he did not. He incurred a benefit and so did Groupe Everest.

May I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, at any time since the appointment of the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to cabinet, has that minister stayed at any residence or property owned by Groupe Everest or by Claude Boulay? For that matter, has any other minister stayed at any residence or property owned by Groupe Everest or by Claude Boulay?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, first, the minister was not under any obligation to give any answers at all with respect to what he did when he was not a minister. He is entitled to personal privacy as a member of parliament. I think the hon. member ought to be one who respects that.

With respect to the conduct of ministers, the Prime Minister made the point very clearly yesterday that he wants a high standard and that if anyone was becoming too comfortable in the past, they are surely much less comfortable than they were before today.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, money for non-existent work is bad and incompetent. Money for non-existent work and a kickback to the Liberal Party is evil and corrupt.

We have heard a lot of questions. We have seen ministers get fired or resign. When is the government going to call an independent inquiry so we can get to the bottom of this issue?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I fail to understand why the Alliance Party does not believe that the auditor general is independent. Surely the nature of her reports thus far, the fact that they are disclosed publicly and the response that has been required both by the government and other agencies are enough to indicate not only the thoroughness of the work she does but her independence in pursuing them.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Liberals were in the opposition they did not feel the auditor general was good enough and were demanding an independent inquiry of the Tory government of the day. Let me quote the member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell who said:

Therefore, I would ask the minister the following: when will his old and tired government learn that taxpayers' money does not belong to the Tories and that they cannot use it to reward friends?

He used that statement in asking for an independent inquiry. This House wants one. Why will the government not do it?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, in the good old days when that member was a member of that party, the auditor general only reported, we only heard from him, once a year. We now hear from the auditor general four times a year.

In addition to that, on the particular issues that have been the subject of debate in the House, the auditor general was operating on a special assignment. Where did that assignment come from? It came from the government itself. That is a whole different standard than the one the member used to adhere to when he was a Tory.

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Prime Minister said, in reference to the minister of public works, that if the minister had not paid, it would be serious, but that if he had paid, then it was not serious.

Will the minister of immigration, who did not pay to use the condo of the president of Groupe Everest, admit that what he did is serious, based on the criteria of his own boss, the Prime Minister?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, considering their question, the Bloc Quebecois will undoubtedly support a code of ethics for MPs and senators. Such a code did not exist in 1997 and the minister, who was then just a member of parliament, was not required to comply with any code whatsoever.

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I should point out to the Deputy Prime Minister that when he awarded these contracts he was indeed a minister.

By getting a significant personal benefit from the president of Everest and by having the vice-president of Everest act as his personal election campaign organizer, did the minister not become indebted to Everest in a significant way, a debt he quickly settled as soon as he was able to do so, that is when he became minister?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, were the contracts awarded to Groupe Everest in compliance with Treasury Board guidelines? I believe so.

There is no indication to the effect that the rules were not followed when contracts were awarded. Since the minister was not a member of cabinet when he received these benefits, this is not a question that relates to the code of ethics.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the former minister of public works was not the only one to have useful connections with Mr. Boulay and Groupe Everest. We know that the minister of immigration stayed for free at Boulay's and that, when he became a junior minister responsible for sport, one of the first things that he did was to award a juicy contract to Groupe Everest.

Could the government explain why the minister of immigration is not subjected to the same rules as the Minister of National Defence, or even the minister of public works?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, it is the same question and the same answer.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government rewards unethical behaviour more often than it punishes it because the Prime Minister has a floating standard that changes based on what his pollsters tell him and what the front page of the newspaper says. Alfonso Gagliano was rewarded for abusing and wasting taxpayer dollars by being appointed as the ambassador to Denmark.

Now that the RCMP investigation is underway and the Prime Minister has decided to punish some of his ministers, will the government do the right thing, rescind the appointment of Mr. Gagliano and recall him to Canada right now?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, this is not about punishment. This is about maintaining the confidence of the people of Canada. The hon. member himself well knows that sometimes it is best to change responsibilities when one's credibility has been affected.

With the actions that the Prime Minister has indicated we will take, in his speech last Thursday, and with the efforts that the minister of public works and his predecessor have taken to deal with issues that have been raised, the confidence of the Canadian people will be maintained.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the business involving contracts to Coffin bears a strange resemblance to the Groupaction affair. In the Groupaction affair, the federal government got one report for the price of three, while in the Coffin affair it got none for the price of two.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister not acknowledge that this new and worrisome affair again justifies a public inquiry?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the facts in relation to the Coffin matter were revealed through an internal audit which was initiated by the department of public works itself.

As a result of that audit, corrective action was taken by at least two of my predecessors. As I informed the House earlier, I am determining at this moment whether anything further is specifically required with respect to this matter or the broader issues involved.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, every day brings with it a new case. The most disconcerting thing is the connections between ministers, ministers' offices and companies, and the nature of the contracts obtained by those companies.

In light of the fact that what we have discovered to date looks far more like a well organized system than an isolated event, will the Deputy Prime Minister not admit that even basic decency requires a public inquiry in order to bring everything out into the open?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that my concern in this matter is just as large and just as sincere as hers. The auditor general is undertaking the appropriate examination. As well, of course, certain matters have been referred to the RCMP where that is appropriate.

The House and all Canadians can be assured that the government will co-operate fully with all those inquiries to ensure complete transparency.

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the immigration minister has done a spectacular flip-flop on the facts about his close personal relationship with the man who raked in millions in Liberal contracts and donated generously in return. The minister vehemently denied receiving any help from Boulay. He pooh-poohed the very suggestion as “damn nonsense” and flatly stated: “No. Not at all”.

Yesterday the minister had to admit that he had stayed at chez Boulay. He has clearly failed to be open and above board. Why should Canadians still trust him with an important government portfolio?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the contract in question, first, was not awarded by the individual who is now the minister of immigration. It was awarded by the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Second, as I have said repeatedly, he was not obliged to answer any questions about his private life when he was a member of parliament. The test of the code of ethics is not based upon the standards that the hon. member suggests. After all, why should anyone believe people in her party who said they would not receive a pension as a parliamentarian?

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in his first year as minister, Liberal largesse to his friend Boulay from his department more than doubled. The minister knew the situation violated the prohibition against “real, potential or apparent conflicts of interest”.

Here is his direct quote when asked recently about another minister “Between you and me, I don't stay in a place of a guy that is seeking government contracts”. However, once again that did not square with his secret lodging deal at chez Boulay.

How do these new facts reflect the Prime Minister's talk about integrity and public trust?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the lust for blood on the other side because, as they say, politics is a blood sport. However the failure of the Alliance to acknowledge that the standard for ministers does not apply to members of parliament to me is a trifle difficult to accept. It is rather disingenuous to not have a standard that applies to them and their statements and yet suggest that a backbencher on the government side is subject to some standard of their creation.

Research and Development

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was over 15 years ago that our Canadian hero, Rick Hansen, embarked on his record setting Man in Motion World Tour, raising awareness and $24 million for spinal cord injury. Since then he has raised $137 million.

Could the Minister of Industry tell us what the Government of Canada has done to help Rick Hansen in this important endeavour?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, 15 years ago, the courage and determination shown by Rick Hansen inspired the nation. It did more than that. It galvanized an effort here and elsewhere in the world to find a cure for spinal cord injury.

This year the Government of Canada was proud to contribute some $13 million to a partnership fund shared by the University of British Columbia and the Vancouver General Hospital, which will accelerate the research through the Rick Hansen Institute in finding a cure for those afflicted with spinal cord injury.

He is an extraordinary man, one we respect and treasure as a great Canadian.