Debates of May 7th, 2002

Supply

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to preface my questions by stating emphatically that the Canadian Alliance is very proud of the job that the men and women in our armed forces are performing abroad in Afghanistan, Bosnia, the Golan Heights and elsewhere. It is in spite of the government that they are doing an admirable job, not because of it.

Is the reason the minister is so certain the $210 million will cover the Afghanistan mission because Canada plans to withdraw from the mission?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, we have not made any decision in that regard. The $210 million is for the current operation. We can only budget for what we know for sure. If we have not made a decision with respect to the follow on mission, then we cannot budget for it. We have just budgeted for what we know at this point in time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, is the minister saying that we are extending the mission to Afghanistan?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, the member seems to have a problem understanding the answer I just gave so let me try again.

We have not made that decision yet. We have troops that are there for a six month period of time. We are looking at that situation carefully.

As has been said before we do have the challenge of operational tempo to be concerned with. There is still more work to be done in Afghanistan in trying to ensure that the Taliban and the al-Qaeda do not again get a foothold in that country. They have damaged that country greatly for the Afghan people. They have also exported terror, as we saw on September 11, to other parts of the world. We simply do not want them to get a foothold.

There will continue to be a coalition effort in and around Afghanistan. We do have other troops that are there. Let us bear that in mind. In addition to the battle group we do have the JTF2. We do have ships in the Arabian Sea. We have Hercules aircraft and Airbuses and Aurora patrol aircraft. We have had up to 2,500 people who have been involved.

There are a number of aspects to that mission. The only part of it that deals with the $210 million which seems to be of concern to the member would be the battle group. That is where a decision has not been made, but the JTF2 and others will continue to be involved in Operation Apollo.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, it is almost time for the people who are on the mission to come back. When will a decision be made as to whether or not another rotation will be going to Afghanistan?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, again it has been said by me in the last few days that it will be made in a very short period of time. I would expect within the next week to 10 days that decision will be made. The battle group will have been there for a six month period in about the middle of July.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, General Jeffery has noted that the army faces a serious annual budget deficit, as we mentioned before, as does the navy and the air force. It also faces a serious overcommitment problem. As General Jeffery has noted, he is short 1,200 troops in terms of effective strength.

The two major overseas commitments today are Bosnia with 1,600 troops and Afghanistan with about 900 troops. Are we going to remain in Bosnia if we decide to continue on our mission in Afghanistan? If so, where will the troops come from?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, we are not planning to remove our troops from Bosnia. There is an examination as to the level of troop commitments in Bosnia by all the NATO countries at the moment. Our plans are to continue with our commitment there under the NATO banner. As I have indicated there are a number of elements to our commitment to Operation Apollo, which will be continuing on. A decision with respect to the battle group replacement is something that will come within a matter of days.

In examining all of these, obviously we have to look at our resources and resource implications. We have to establish our priorities. That will all be worked out in a short period of time.

[The Chairman]

So far the questions and the answers have played themselves quite evenly in terms of time. If a question requires a lengthy response, obviously it will require a lengthy response. If at all possible, let us be as concise as we can be so that we can get as much material covered as possible in the amount of time we have left.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, the army presently has three long range reconnaissance squadrons equipped with the Coyote light armoured vehicle. These are the Coyotes with the long range detection equipment. We understand that one of these squadrons is in Bosnia and that another is in Afghanistan. It is of course impossible to sustain two squadrons overseas when we only have three to start with.

If it is decided to continue on with our mission in Afghanistan, will the minister be withdrawing the Coyotes from Bosnia or Afghanistan?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, that is all hypothetical. We are looking at the matter. We obviously know what our resources are and what we have to do in this regard. We have to look at what our priorities are. We have to look at what we have available. All of that will be examined.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, there are over 200 Coyotes available but only 50 of them are equipped with the long range detection equipment that is required.

The army has fewer than 19,000 troops at present and effective strength is of course much lower, yet the army still has three brigades. Is it not true that the minister is looking at cutting the number of brigades from three to two?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

No, Mr. Chairman, that is not being entertained at this point in time. I did indicate that the commander of the army is going through a transformation phase of reforms and changes to try to bring it within the resource limits that exist. At the same time, looking for additional resources will be something that will be examined in the defence review update.

I know the hon. member would like to plan all of our military missions, but the Canadian forces are well aware of the resources we have and if they are available or not available for continuing missions.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, with the transformation the army is going through, if it comes out that there is a brigade that is to be cut, which brigade will be cut?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, we have no plans to cut a brigade.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, there are no plans now but after the transformation happens, what options will be drawn up for the army bases that will be cut? Have there been any options drawn up?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chairman, as I said all of these matters are being examined. In due course, as we get into the defence review update, we will be able to look at all of the questions of capabilities, force structure and readiness levels within that framework. I am sure the hon. member will be able to tell us of her views on the matter.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, it is really disappointing that the government is laughing at these questions. People's lives are hanging in the balance not knowing whether their jobs will be cut.

The 1994 white paper committed Canada to deploying a full brigade overseas within 90 days. General Jeffery told the House of Commons defence committee that the 90 days has now been taken to mean the time it would take to simply get the brigade ready for deployment rather than actually deploying it. Is that accurate?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It would take 90 days to deploy.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay, 90 days to deploy. Will the minister pledge today that any defence review will retain a brigade commitment?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

As I said, we are having a review update of our policy. We will look at all of the different capabilities. We need to make sure we have the resources to match our program. All those matters are under examination.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Will the minister promise that his government will not scrap the brigade commitment?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

As I have indicated before, we have no plan to remove that brigade. We certainly want to make sure we have the Canadian forces to do the kinds of jobs that this government has asks it to do and that we give it the resources that are necessary. We will be going through the defence update that I have spoken about many times to help determine our capabilities, our force structure and our readiness levels will be.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chairman, there are no plans today but that could change tomorrow.

In September 1995 the minister's government presented a paper to the United Nations called “Towards a UN Rapid Reaction Capability”. What has the government actually done to improve Canada's ability to deploy forces and to increase the mobility and fire power of the army?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

As I indicated before, we have made upgrades in a number of areas such as in the modernization of our forces. It has been our aim to increase the rapid deployment of our forces. We have been able to get our forces into peace support operations and into the combat zone in Afghanistan in excellent time periods. We have been there when we have needed to be there. We will continue to work on improvements in that area.