House of Commons Hansard #207 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was indian.
John O'Reilly LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence
Mr. Speaker, a longstanding rule in the newspaper business and in politics is that you never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel and paper by the role. That was a comment by Winston Churchill.
I would like to assure the House that no one here is responsible for the firing of any newspaper editor.
Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS
Mr. Speaker, the government does not seem to get it. Freedom of the press is a fundamental pillar of democracy but media mogul Izzy Asper clearly subscribes to the Shawinigan school of quashing dissent.
We have repeatedly urged the government to take action on media concentration and today we see the results of its inaction.
Russell Mills was fired because the Prime Minister's buddy happened to be his boss. That is downright dangerous to democracy. We need a full public inquiry into media concentration, ownership and convergence. Will the government commit today to that public inquiry?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, the member has made a series of allegations that are completely without base. I have no idea whether the Prime Minister had an opinion on how Russell Mills did his job. Clearly Mr. Mills had an opinion on the Prime Minister. I suspect their opinions would have about the same amount of weight in terms of whether or not the other holds his job.
Joe Clark Progressive Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Mr. Speaker, let us try again with the government that is so much enmeshed in an abuse of power.
On the 30th anniversary of the Watergate burglary, we learn that a senior Canadian newspaper publisher has been fired for publishing an editorial calling on the Prime Minister to resign. The people who fired him are dependent on cabinet decisions for the health of their electronic media empire.
Did the Prime Minister meet with Mr. Izzy Asper on the weekend that the Ottawa Citizen ran the article on Shawinigate by Mr. Graham Green?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the Prime Minister having had any meetings. In any event, decisions about internal matters in an organization like CanWest Global are taken by the corporation itself. It answers for them in the courts and elsewhere. Those decisions have nothing to do with the administration of the government.
Joe Clark Progressive Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Mr. Speaker, the minister of public works says that there is a government wide audit by the auditor general. Unfortunately that is not true. The auditor general herself says that her powers do not allow her to audit either the arm's length foundations or certain crown corporations including, suspiciously, Canada Post.
The government could give her that full power under section 11 of the Auditor General Act. That would let her inquire into any matter relating to the financial affairs of Canada. So far the government has denied the auditor general that power.
Will the government give the auditor general the full authority that she seeks--
Auditor General of CanadaOral Question Period
The Speaker
The hon. President of the Treasury Board.
Lucienne Robillard LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board
Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that the auditor general announced that she was going to look into all the sponsorship, advertising, and opinion research programs. These are the areas in which the internal audit revealed problems.
Once the auditor general has tabled her report, which we expect in a few months, then we can decide whether there are additional problems, and take the necessary corrective action.
Chuck Cadman Canadian Alliance Surrey North, BC
Mr. Speaker, another day, another example and we still have not cleared up all the earlier examples.
Last week there was a revelation of what appeared to be double payments to Groupe Polygone. Polygone received sponsorship money for a fishing show it ran and it received money to run the ads for the show in a magazine that Polygone itself owned, and all the money flowed through Groupaction.
Last Friday the minister spoke of a public inquiry. Has he learned anything other than the fact that the money is gone?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, all of the files with respect to Polygone projects are under review. As that review moves forward, if there is appropriate action that needs to be taken either in further references to police authorities or otherwise, that will be done as we have already demonstrated is consistently the case.
Chuck Cadman Canadian Alliance Surrey North, BC
Mr. Speaker, the minister refers a single payment for no show to the RCMP right away but not a double payment for one show.
Perhaps we can clear up how many referrals we are talking about exactly. The triple billed Groupaction report is one. The missing car race report is two. The VIA Rail cheque delivery fee for Lafleur is three. The street safety CD-ROM is four. The $330,000 Polygone fee for the missing fishing show is five. There may be a couple of other cases but the minister has hedged on his answers.
Is five, six, seven or some other figure the actual, as of today, current number of referrals to the RCMP?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, I have responded to direct inquiries about this matter on a number of occasions. I have indicated why I am reluctant to engage in this type of discussion.
First of all, I do not want to inadvertently by this dialogue end up tipping off those that the police wish to investigate. Second, with respect to references by the government, that is not synonymous with the police investigation. It is the police themselves who determine after a reference has been made whether an investigation will be pursued.
Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC
Mr. Speaker, according to the government, the only way to go about awarding sponsorship contracts is that used by the former Secretary of State for Amateur Sport, where Canadian heritage ordered that a firm be hired to organize the minister's tour and the Department of Public Works and Government Services obliged and approved the contract.
In the case of the firearms communication plan contract, how does the President of the Treasury Board explain that her department did not realize that a contract had been authorized by public works without any request from the Department of Justice? Does this not reveal a lack—
Government ContractsOral Question Period
The Speaker
The hon. Minister of Public Works and Government Services.
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, I have indicated that for the last two to three weeks or so I have had this file under review. We are examining all the dimensions of it including whether or not there were requirements by the Department of Justice or whether or not some other set of circumstances prevailed. As in all the cases, if there is something untoward that comes to my attention, we will refer the matter to the appropriate authorities.
Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC
Mr. Speaker, the contract to award a firearms communication plan was recommended by Chuck Guité, authorized by Chuck Guité and signed by Chuck Guité.
Can the President of the Treasury Board explain how such a contract—and it is not the only one of its kind—made it through Treasury Board's nets without triggering any alarm, as though everything had been done by the book?
Are we to understand that her department is also colluding with the system?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, the way in which financial standards and management practices and government systems are policed and supervised within the government is through the process of audits. First, there are the internal audits conducted by the departments themselves and then of course there are the official audits that are done from time to time by the auditor general.
In this case my department has obviously done its work because it was the internal audit in 2000 that discovered a number of these difficulties in the past. The auditor general will be conducting a government-wide audit.
James Rajotte Canadian Alliance Edmonton Southwest, AB
Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor has publicly admitted that the Prime Minister changed the rules for political fundraising by cabinet ministers after firing the former finance minister.
How can Canadians be expected to have any confidence in the government's so-called ethical guidelines when the Prime Minister is using these specific guidelines as a weapon against his main political rival?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, the guidelines ensure a high degree of transparency and ensure that the public will be aware of who has been raising money from whom. This stands in stark contrast to the rules of the Alliance Party.
Do you know what the Alliance rules are, Mr. Speaker? There are none. Where did the Leader of the Opposition get his money? We do not know. How much did he get? We do not know.
I suggest the Alliance may want to look at the rules the Prime Minister has put out and consider adopting them.
James Rajotte Canadian Alliance Edmonton Southwest, AB
Mr. Speaker, the ethics counsellor also admitted last week that he has no legislative power nor the power to sanction unethical conduct by cabinet ministers. He admitted that the Prime Minister himself can only punish what he considers unethical conduct at his discretion on an ad hoc basis.
How can Canadians have any confidence that the Prime Minister will be fair in applying ethical standards when he is in the political fight of his life against the former finance minister and has demonstrated that he will use ethical guidelines and other means against his political rival?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I welcome the hon. member to the British parliamentary system in which the Prime Minister has responsibility for the conduct of his ministers.
I also encourage him to review the guidelines so that he considers advocating within his own party a level of transparency that would be similar. When some of his party's members state that their positions on Kyoto are going to help their fundraising abilities, then we know that the people who give their leader money have influence over his positions.
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil, QC
Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board has risen in this House to solemnly state that all Treasury Board rules for contracts had been complied with.
How can she say that all rules have been complied with when we know that the firearms communications contract was never ordered by the Department of Justice, the person who approved the contract did not have the power to do so, and there was no monitoring of how it was carried out? Ought not all these elements to have been checked before payment was made?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, consistency with treasury board guidelines and other provisions such as the Financial Administration Act are supervised and policed within the government system through the process of audits, either internal audits conducted by departments or the work of the auditor general.
In this case the internal audit discovered that there was activity that was not consistent with treasury board standards. Accordingly, the appropriate corrective action was taken.
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil, QC
Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board had far more to say when it was time to defend the sponsorship contracts.
There are two possibilities: either the PMO did not forewarn the President of the Treasury Board that there were serious problems with the sponsorship program, which is proof that they wanted to keep on with their little game without Treasury Board interference, or she was informed, did nothing, and thus was derelict in her duty. If that is so, she ought to resign. Which is it?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has obviously presented the House with a rather phony choice.
The facts of the matter are that the treasury board and the president of the treasury board insist upon departments having strong internal audit sections. In this case it was the internal audit department of Public Works and Government Services Canada that discovered the error. It discovered that in fact certain activity was not consistent with the standards established by the treasury board and insisted that corrective action be taken, which is now the case.