Debates of June 5th, 2002

Immigration

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, security is one of our priorities. Of course sometimes we can have some problems. What I will mention, and I think it is important for the sake of the Canadian people, because there is another scapegoating here, is that when the documents were misplaced at the embassy we informed CIC headquarters that they were missing. At that time the visa numbers were cancelled. Later we found out that the documents were not tampered with and were in the secure area of the embassy to which only Canadians have access.

There was a mistake, we found it and we will make sure that it will not happen again.

Fisheries

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Speaker, three weeks ago the Department of Fisheries and Oceans ordered fisherman off the MacLeod shelf near North Cape, P.E.I., in an area where local fishermen have been making their livelihood for over 100 years. There is proof that this is a fact.

These fisherman have now already lost three weeks out of their nine week season. When will the minister resolve this issue and allow the fishermen to enjoy their historic rights to fish off the MacLeod shelf?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question. It is true that DFO officials apprehended fishers of district 22 fishing in district 24, issued warnings and asked them to retreat to their side of the line where they are licensed to fish.

Through the diligent work of the member for Egmont, who has provided information that they have been fishing there in the past and may have historic rights, my officials are reviewing the matter at this time. I thank him for his hard work.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear to everybody concerned that the first nations governance initiative has been an absolute disaster so far. Not only have relations between government and first nations been set back 50 years, Canadians may still see a long, hot summer of protests and demonstrations right across the country.

If the minister believes that the merits of his proposed bill are so strong, will he agree now to delay the introduction of the bill and spend the summer working with aboriginal leadership to develop legislation that really does meet the needs of aboriginal people?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, as you know, we have spent the last year consulting with first nations citizens right across the country with the objective of getting their advice on a piece of legislation that will improve their lives.

The member of course is suggesting, without seeing the bill, that somehow he has a problem with it. I would suggest strongly to him as to any good members of parliament that they should keep their decisions as to how they feel about a bill until they see it.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is not much help to anyone involved.

I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Thousands of first nations men and women voluntarily enlisted to serve their country in the second world war and the Korean conflict, but after the wars first nations veterans found that the benefits provided to the average Canadian soldier were not available to them. First nations veterans have been waiting for 50 years for justice on this issue.

Will the Minister of Veterans Affairs act immediately to remedy this historic injustice? Will he act now to give first nations veterans the equal recognition and compensation they so richly deserve?

[Rey D. Pagtakhan, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Science]

Mr. Speaker, in fact this issue has been one of my priorities since I took office for this portfolio in the middle of January. It is a very complex issue. At the same time, I would like to say to the House that indeed I am very optimistic that we will be able to find a favourable resolution to this very complex issue soon.

Liberal Party of Canada

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, while in opposition the Prime Minister boasted that his government would return ethics to parliament. He made a point on numerous occasions of promising Canadians that he would restore faith in the political system. History will show that what he said and what he did are polar opposites.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Will his much overdue and anticipated guidelines for leadership apply to the Prime Minister himself? Will they apply to the new backbencher from LaSalle—Émard, the fired finance minister? Will they apply to all the candidates that are vying to replace him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am not from the Alliance Party so I will not run to replace myself. On that score, I am not preoccupied with organizing a leadership campaign after I retire so I do not have this big problem.

There might be another problem, that if we have a review in February and if my--

[Some hon. members]

If, if.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

We will have a review in February, I am sorry, and at that occasion if money is being raised for that all the donors will be known by the people before the review.

Greenwich Development Inc.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, he has lost the plot.

The auditor general said this of openness in Greenwich Development Inc.:

These actions circumvented the intent of the terms and conditions of the business development program. Because of the complex structure of these arrangements it is impossible for parliament to know the full capital and operating costs of the Greenwich component of the park.

Exempting this and other quasi crown corporations from parliamentary scrutiny helps hide $7 billion.

I ask the ACOA minister again, will he table all the relevant files pertaining to the Greenwich deal? What is he hiding?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Minister of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency)]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is attempting to defeat a very sound project in Prince Edward Island. In fact he is trying to defeat a very sound economic opportunity. His words sound so similar to those of the members of the Canadian Alliance I think he may show up at the next Canadian Alliance convention.

Notwithstanding all of that, the auditor general has reviewed the files of GDI and has given constructive criticism of which ACOA, my agency, is responding to and has done very well in so doing.

Foundations

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the former minister of finance had a policy of funding off book foundations which alarmed the auditor general. He had stashed over $7 billion into these foundations. Yesterday the auditor general once again warned that the government is disregarding the principles of accountability to parliament by using this practice.

Can the new Minister of Finance tell us what his position is on foundation funding?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, my view is that where appropriate it is a useful tool. My example of that would be the Canada Foundation for Innovation which has been managed very well in the interests of building scientific research infrastructure across the country. The amounts are determined by an independent arm's length board of directors that does the technical analysis in the context of the strategic infrastructure fund. By contrast we decided that should not go to a foundation but rather be done as a government program with responsibility in the appropriate minister's hands.

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general says that this type of accounting compromises the integrity of the government's reported financial results. That is a very serious charge. On Monday the finance minister was quick to prescribe better accounting and transparency principles for the private sector. He should take his own advice and do the same in his own area of responsibility in finance.

Does the finance minister agree with the auditor general or is he simply following in the footsteps of the former finance minister?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I have made clear in a number of contexts, I am very pleased to follow in the footsteps of the former finance minister. I think the results we have seen demonstrated for the Canadian economy over many years indicate the wisdom of the decisions that were taken by him with the support of the Prime Minister.

I have also made it clear, as we have done repeatedly in the House, that decisions made by the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, frequently answered for by members of the foundation before committees of this parliament, have been wise ones as well. I support those decisions.

Government Contracts

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the case of the Jeux de la Francophonie, it is Gosselin Relations publiques that is involved. In the case of CD-ROM/Dessin animé, it is Groupaction that is involved. In these cases of unexplained overpayments of grants, two communication firms very close to the government are involved.

Does the scope of the sponsorship issue and the accumulation of disturbing facts not justify a public inquiry into this whole issue?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, they certainly lead us to the steps that have been taken, such as the departmental reviews, the treasury board review, the references to police authorities where required and the government wide examination by the auditor general, who does incidentally have the legal authority of a public inquiry. Accordingly the proper steps have been taken.

I want to assure the hon. member once again that I am re-examining entirely this question of whether outside contracts to agencies is the best way to deliver a sponsorship program or whether it can be better delivered in house by direct government administration.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is striking in all these files is the size of the commissions collected in the process, commissions that increase in proportion to the size of the grants given.

Should the government not agree to hold a public inquiry into what definitely looks like a very well organized and, more importantly, a very profitable scheme?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I am advised that the commissions do in fact accord with industry wide standards. However that does not change my view that I think we can find a far better way to deliver this program. I intend to pursue that through government administration, not outside contractors.

Foundations

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, after two days of questioning in the House, the former minister of public works referred the problems of his department to the auditor general and we thought that was a good idea. Then she referred them to the police.

Yesterday the auditor general said that it is urgently needed to have changes in the foundations on how they report and how she can investigate them. Why will the government not allow the auditor general to look at these foundations and report to all members of parliament every year?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, we are taking a very close look at all the recommendations of the auditor general regarding foundations.

Again, all foundations are audited by a private auditor. Moreover, funding agreements are signed between foundations and the government.

Through these funding agreements there is a possibility that the minister could ask also for a compliance audit and ask the auditor general to go in to see what is going on in the foundation.

I think we are improving the situation and we are doing that in collaboration with the auditor general.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, private auditors are fine but there was private auditing of public works that did not find the problems there.

The auditor general said “This compromises the integrity of government”. She also said that it is urgently needed.

Will the government change its policy as the auditor general and all opposition parties are requesting and allow these foundations, $7 billion worth, to report to parliament every year through an auditor general's report?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, first of all the public works department does not have private auditors. It has an internal audit function. That is why two years ago it found some problems and some corrective actions were taken at public works.

We have improved the system for the foundations. We have changed the funding agreements with the foundations. There is a possibility also for the minister to ask for a compliance audit by the auditor general. We will look at all other improvements that we can make in that matter.