House of Commons Hansard #199 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was public.

Topics

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC

He is a mercenary for all causes. He is a hatchet man. He is an ill-mannered man.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Order, please. I know it is late and members all passionately want to put their arguments across. I only ask that members keep their composure, because there are people watching. The hon. member for Chambly.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, I have a hard time controlling myself in front of such a man, but I will tone things down.

This man, with his attitude, his allegations and his behaviour, is unworthy of sitting among us. To think that he represents the party in power and, what is more, is the parliamentary secretary to the minister responsible for the Canada Post Corporation.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Steve Mahoney Liberal Mississauga West, ON

What kind of crap is that? What kind of a guy are you to say stuff like that?

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC

Can you not make this ill-mannered person be quiet, Madam Speaker? Please silence this boorish man.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Order, please. Members from both sides should refrain at all cost from attacking one another in the House.

We have all agreed that personal attacks are not to be levied in the House of Commons where we have respect for one another. I would really enforce that rule, please. The hon. member for Chambly has one minute.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, in closing, I will just address myself to those members who have no respect at all for Groupaction and Groupe Everest, those companies that pocket fantastic profits for doing absolutely nothing, but who still respect other people, workers, human beings, men and women who honestly earn a living, and all those who voted for them and sent them here. I ask for the unanimous consent of the House in order that this bill be declared votable.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Is there unanimous consent to make the item votable?

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Canada Post Corporation ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired. As the motion has not been designated as votable item, the order is dropped from the order paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Garry Breitkreuz Canadian Alliance Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, on May 2 the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice gave a most unsatisfactory answer to a direct question. The RCMP has provided reports documenting hundreds of thousands of errors in the gun registry. I again ask my question. How can a garbage collection system like the minister is running be of any benefit to the police?

Last week the parliament secretary contradicted the documented evidence from his own department and the RCMP by claiming that 99% of all firearms were correctly registered and 99% of firearms licences correctly issued.

On May 22 the justice department, in response to one of my access to information requests on error rates in the gun registry, stated:

The error rate for applications received up to July 18, 2001, was 90% of a total of 362,375. In addition to errors detailed in Appendix A, 42% of firearms registration applications contain errors in the firearms description, in comparison to the Firearms Reference Table...The sum of the errors exceeds the number of applications received because the application is only counted once even though it may contain multiple errors.

On April 9, 2002, in response to our access to information request, the RCMP provided the cold, hard statistics used to calculate the justice department's 90% plus 42% error rate in firearms applications. As of July 18, 2001, the RCMP's Canadian firearms registry had received 362,375 firearms registration applications. The RCMP provided a two page document listing 60 different types of errors. Amazingly this RCMP document records a total of 970,647 errors.

Here are some of the more common firearms application errors the RCMP documents: 226,024 applications required the firearms owner's licence numbers; 88,886 applications were awaiting payment while the funds for 23,211 applications were not acceptable; 48,282 applications did not have the firearms make, while for another 40,528, the make was invalid; 79,456 had an invalid model description; 71,539 required a client match; 59,640 had address errors; 56,374 required the calibre for the firearm; 34,830 did not have the number of shots; 18,434 did not have a serial number; 16,313 did not have the barrel length; and 20,978 had not been signed.

The minister and the parliamentary secretary would have us believe that in the 11 months they have fixed almost a million errors in these 362,000 applications and have stopped clients from making similar errors on the other 3.4 million firearms applications they received since. In another 11 months, through another access to information request, as has been happening continually over the last six or seven years, we will find that is not true. The minister's claims stretch--

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Northumberland Ontario

Liberal

Paul MacKlin LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to provide an update on the firearm registration process and to reinforce the government's commitment to public safety. We have become accustomed to the hon. member's frequent allegations about this public safety initiative and I intend to respond to this one as we have with all others.

The hon. member is alleging that the firearms registry is of limited use to the police. Let us first be clear that this public safety program is much more than a gun registry. It is a multi-facetted, practical approach that addresses the prevention of firearm death, injury and crime deterrence. That is why Canada's law enforcement community recognizes and supports the firearms program as an important public safety initiative.

In its testimony on Bill C-15B we heard the law enforcement community reaffirm its support for this program and its essential crime fighting tools. The Canadian Police Association and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police outlined the significant public benefits available through this program, which combines the screening of the applicants, tracking of firearms and minimum mandatory sentencing to help deter, prevent and prosecute firearm crime in Canada.

Regarding the questions of the hon. member about errors in the system, I want to emphasize that errors reported to the Canadian Firearms Centre to date represent a tiny fraction of the firearm documents that have been issued.

As recently as April 27 of this year, 99% of the firearms in the Canadian Firearms Registry system were correctly registered according to identification and classification as required under law. Also, 99% of the licences were correctly issued to the right person living at the address stated with the appropriate privilege and safety training. There may be a small number of entry errors for which we have no statistics but when these are reported, they are dealt with promptly in co-ordination with the client. Firearms owners should verify the information on their firearm documents and contact us immediately at 1-800-731-4000 to report any anomalies and have the situation rectified.

There are currently 2.1 million individuals in the firearms database and firearms owners have been sending in their registration applications in unprecedented numbers. As with any other high volume operation, it is only natural to expect a small degree of entry error. That is why we remain vigilant and have recently made some improvements to further minimize the potential for error.

Over the past few months, the Canadian firearms program has completely restructured the registration process and implemented rigorous measures to ensure the integrity of the information. When the personalized registration application is returned for processing, the form is scanned including the bar code that identifies the licence holder. Manual data entry is eliminated which minimizes the potential for error.

Unquestionably, this program has been beneficial to the Canadian community at large. We believe it is an excellent program and it is working well. We believe that the errors that the member refers to are errors of at least a year ago.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Garry Breitkreuz Canadian Alliance Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, they are errors that have not been corrected. I will take one of the alleged facts that has been used here and that is the 99% success rate with regard to the addresses.

As of February 21 of this year, the department reported it had mailed out 1,625,915 envelopes to licensed firearm owners as part of its free registration program. However we also found out that 38,629 of those envelopes had been returned to sender by Canada Post Corporation. So much for the claim that 99% of the licensed firearms owners are living at the right address. They have lost track of these owners despite the fact that there is a penalty of years in jail if within one month they do not--

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Paul MacKlin Liberal Northumberland, ON

Madam Speaker, I think it is clear that the member has stated before the House that the data he used in most of his intervention was really based on July 2001. The statistics that I referred to are statistics that are up to date and represent great improvements that we have made within the system.

The hon. member represents a party that has done everything possible within the House to stop the streamlining of this process and the making of this process more efficient. This was by the stalling and filibustering on Bill C-15B which finally forced the government to enter into time allocation to effectively bring it to a conclusion and advance it to the other place.

We are very pleased that we have now done so. It is now in the other place and we will see more benefits accruing to the legitimate firearms owners in Canada through that streamlining process. We look forward to having many registrations that will go through without error.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, I am sad to have to rise again today to speak about this issue, which I have raised on several occasions over the last few weeks and which has not yet been settled.

Let us review the facts. There is a ferry between Trois-Pistoles and les Escoumins that links the South Shore to the North Shore. The wharfs are the property of the federal government.

Over the last five years, the federal government has been wanting to divest itself of these wharfs. It negotiated more or less positively and actively to transfer these wharfs to the region. It knows full well that it would cost $5 million to renovate each of the wharfs.

Last year, we learned that there was a major problem with the wharfs and that they could be washed away if repairs were not made, which the minister recognized when he answered my question.

Indeed, a few weeks ago, Transport Canada decided that the ferry could not dock in les Escoumins because the wharf was not safe and could be washed away by the current.

I find this situation totally unacceptable. In the end, the government is being a bad owner in this case. This is not a partisan issue; I am not trying to pester the government. It is a fact. The federal government has defaulted on its responsibility to maintain these wharfs properly.

This situation does not penalize the federal government, particularly the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Justice who are responsible for Quebec. It penalizes those workers who have lost the seasonal jobs they were expecting to have this year.

We are waiting for an answer from the government to know whether or not the summer 2002 season will be saved, whether or not the government will decide to invest the $10 million required to renovate both wharves.

I would like to know if the parliamentary secretary is aware of the impact that this has on those who are losing their jobs, on the tourism industry, on bed and breakfast owners, for example.

Many European tourists take the ferry when they arrive in Trois-Pistoles or when they leave Trois-Pistoles to cross the river and go to the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. Now people have started to hear that the wharves need repair. They can no longer use the ferry there and have to go to Rivière-du-Loup or Matane to cross the river.

This is very important for our region and it has serious repercussions on tourism. A decision to save the 2002 summer season must be made in the next few days. Will the parliamentary secretary finally give us an answer?

For around ten days now, each day department officials and the minister's office have been telling us “The solution will be announced in two days, two more days”. We still have no solution. People are affected by this situation.

The local elected officials, the reeve of the regional municipality of des Basques, the mayor of Trois-Pistoles and labour representatives will be here on Friday, because they cannot bear the situation any longer.

All we need today is a decision to the effect that the wharves will be renovated this year in order to allow us to benefit from the tourism season and that there will be a permanent decision, that the wharves will be divested to the region, which will obtain them under advantageous conditions. I think that it is very important that we receive this message as quickly as possible.

For now, the whole tourism season in our region is in jeopardy, specifically in the MRC des Basques, which is unfortunately one of the poorest regions in Quebec.

Will the parliamentary secretary assure me today that the work will in fact be done, that the tourism season will go ahead and that both of the wharves will be expected to last some thirty years?

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Chicoutimi—Le Fjord Québec

Liberal

André Harvey LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague. I know he is very much aware that there are several places where ferries can cross from the south shore to the north shore.

There is, of course, the Rivière-du-Loup to Saint-Siméon ferry. I know Saint-Siméon very well because my parents were born there, and just hearing the name brings back happy memories. Then there is the Rimouski--Forestville ferry, and the problematic one, Trois-Pistoles--Les Escoumins.

In April, Transport Canada representatives discovered it had become extremely dangerous for the ferries to use this dock. Tourists would be at risk if the ferries were allowed, if I might put it that way, to dock there.

A meeting took place in early May between the shipping company, Navigation des Basques, confirming the vital importance of suspending activities. Obviously, it was not any great pleasure for our departmental employees to have to ask the minister to suspend commercial activities in a location where, as my colleague has just said, 80% of the traffic is tourism related, and has a spinoff effect on our small communities.

There are no easy solutions. In the very short term—and I look forward to see the most recent reports which we will soon have—there are various possible solutions. There are scenarios under which an investment of a few hundred thousand dollars could be made.

However, we could not resume operations in the very short time. It would not be possible before the month of August.

As my colleague pointed out, there are considerable costs involved in the almost complete renovation of the wharves. If I remember correctly, this would be a $10 million to $12 million project. It requires some study and reflection. Under this scenario, according to the information I have, the wharves would have to be closed for at least two to three years.

In a nutshell, the motivation of the Department of Transport and especially of the minister, with whom I had the opportunity to talk about this issue yesterday, is strictly a matter of safety. We cannot risk allowing operations between those two municipalities, Les Escoumins and Trois-Pistoles, and exposing local and foreign tourists to accidents. We would be accused of not having taken our responsibilities.

Meanwhile, there are of course short term alternative solutions. We could, for instance, use the ferries between Rivière-du-Loup and Saint-Siméon or between Rimouski and Forestville, or the Matane ferry. I know it is not the ideal solution, but people are on site trying to find a solution.

I am very much attached to this area. It is located very close to the mouth of the Saguenay fjord, which is now a Canadian national marine park. There are more and more tourists going there.

The bottom line is that we are very aware of the importance of the matter raised by the hon. member, but there are safety considerations involved. There are very short term deadlines. It would be difficult for us to invest $600,000 or $700,000 knowing that operations could not resume tomorrow morning.

There is another possible solution. We will allow our representatives from Transport Canada to pursue negotiations with local authorities.

I thank my colleague for having raised this matter tonight.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, although I have only a minute, is the parliamentary secretary aware that the full and complete responsibility rests with the federal government, as the owner, because they were poorly maintained?

The government cannot say this happened only at the end of the winter. It had known for some years that the life cycle of the wharfs was coming to an end. Indeed, if there are solutions that can be achieved by this summer, they must be implemented. As for renovating in the medium term, I believe it is appropriate for the federal government to do so.

If it is not possible in the short term, can it commit to compensate the company, the affected workers and the regional tourist industry? It is not with the other ferries that the government will compensate the salaries of those who lost their jobs for this summer and the income of those who are losing business in the tourist industry.

This is totally unacceptable. When someone behaves as a bad owner, they must pay the price. Is the federal government willing to take responsibility? If it cannot ensure a season for the coming year and particularly the renovation in the years to come, will it compensate the region adequately?

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

André Harvey Liberal Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Madam Speaker, I can say that our department officials are looking closely at this issue. We discussed it yesterday, and you can be assured that we are aware that, in our small communities, such an issue must be considered as a major issue that is essential to their development.

There is, of course, the safety principle. We cannot always afford to say yes, when we know very well that we may put the safety of tourists at risk. I hope that we will be able to find a solution that will be satisfactory to all the stakeholders in the area, whom I want to thank. All the stakeholders in the area are co-operating with our officials and representatives. I hope that a solution can be found that will allow us to authorize commercial operations in the long term.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Madam Speaker, I had difficulty with the answer of the minister responsible for Canada Customs and Revenue Agency.

The minister recently issued a proposal to supply office supplies to all offices across the country. In other words, she called for a blanket proposal to supply regular office materials to every office Canada Customs and Revenue Agency operates. Only companies like Staples or Grand & Toy would be able to handle such a huge tender, both of which are huge American based companies.

Over the years the department has called local tenders at the provincial level for supplies to local offices. This gave small businesses across the country the opportunity to compete. Government always brags that small business is the engine that drives the country. The Prime Minister stands and brags about all the new jobs that are being created. Besides the few being created by the government slush fund, most are created by small businesspeople investing their own money. What breaks does government give small businesspeople? All it does is give them increased bureaucracy, high taxes and all kinds of red tape.

What can government do to help? Besides cutting bureaucracy and red tape, lowering taxes and providing incentives to invest and create jobs, when the opportunity arises it can give small businesspeople opportunities to deal with government. The dollars the government spends to purchase supplies are taxpayer dollars. They come from the pockets of Canadians, many of whom are the same small businesspeople who are asking for help.

The minister said doing it this way makes it more convenient for the office and the taxpayer. The taxpayer might save money if the one big bid was a bit lower than the combined lower bids. However the dollars that are made go elsewhere instead of being reinvested to create opportunities at the local level and increase the tax return.

Who are we supposed to serve, the people in the minister's office or the business people across the country? I think the voters will answer that one.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Vancouver Kingsway B.C.

Liberal

Sophia Leung LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for St. John's West for his concern.

The Canada Customs and Revenue Agency is committed to providing the best possible service to Canadians. In order to do this we must be efficient and fiscally responsible in the way we operate.

With respect to office supplies, the CCRA plans to simplify and streamline its ordering process through partnering with a single supplier. As my colleagues are aware, the CCRA took full responsibility for its contracting activities after becoming an agency in 1999. With this responsibility comes an accountability to make decisions that are in the best interests of all Canadians.

Through a process of internal and external consultation and researching best practices, we have concluded that a single supplier is the best option for the agency. It will allow the CCRA to leverage its buying power and in turn pass along overall savings to Canadian taxpayers. This initiative is part of the CCRA administrative reform and renewal that has been identified as a main objective in the CCRA's corporate business plan. It is in line with the corporate goal to provide responsive and reliable services at an affordable cost.

We are aware of concerns about the impact such a partnership could have on small businesses in communities across the country. It is for this reason that the notice for proposed procurement allows smaller suppliers to form partnerships with larger suppliers. As well, prior to posting the notice on the MERX government electronic tendering system, a draft of the document was posted to allow for industry feedback. Recommendations received from this draft posting as well as from internal and industry consultations were taken into account in the drafting of the final notice for proposed procurement.

The CCRA will be awarding a contract to the company that best meets CCRA needs in the best interests of Canadians.

The CCRA recognizes that it must take full advantage of any and all opportunities to provide Canadian taxpayers with the best value for their tax dollars while still providing the excellent service they have come to expect. That is the motivation behind becoming an agency. The CCRA is taking full advantage of its flexibility to explore new, more cost effective and efficient ways of serving the Canadian public.

Canada Post Corporation ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:55 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Madam Speaker, I do not believe what I am hearing. I am sure the hon. member does not agree with a word she said because she is an hon. member and is very concerned about her constituents. Unfortunately she had to read what was prepared for her.

There is no way a large company, an American company in particular, is going to return to this country the type of benefits we could derive from having small businesses benefit from the tender calls. The jobs that are involved are local and the revenues that are made are put back into the system.

Efficiency is only efficiency for the government. It is no help at all to the working class and small business people of this country. The government is going further and further away from its own people in relation to all its tenders.

Our postage stamps are made in the United States. It does not even have the nerve to put “made in the United States” on the back so when people lick the stamps they see it.