Madam Speaker, I want to stand today to say a few words about the motion before the House which was moved by the Alliance.
When we start talking about equalization and the overpayment to the provinces, the first thing that comes to my mind is that this is a government across the way that cannot count the overpayment to the provinces it is now trying to collect in terms of equalization.
We have had the consistent budgets of the former minister of finance where he has been consistently underestimating the surplus, not just by a small margin, but radically underestimating the surplus. Last year was a very good case in point, where he had a budget in December estimating the surplus to be about $1.5 billion.
Before I get into the rest of my remarks, I want to say that I am splitting my time with my colleague from Winnipeg Centre who will talk more specifically about some of the impacts of the motion vis-à-vis Manitoba and the overpayment in the province of Manitoba.
In general we have had across the way a minister who has really underestimated the surplus, year in and year out. He said the surplus would be $1.5 billion for fiscal 2001-02. As it turns out, the surplus will be more like $7 billion or $8 billion or even $10 billion for fiscal 2001-02. He cannot count and the government has not been able to count, as I said a minute or two ago. It does this year after year.
It is okay to be frugal. It is okay to be prudent. In the past we had a Conservative government led by Brian Mulroney that could not count the other way. It kept saying that we would have a small deficit and the deficit got larger and larger. I see my good friend from Nova Scotia hanging his head in shame as he recalls those days in the Conservative Party when the deficit started to bloom each and every single year, hitting at one time a $40 billion deficit in one particular fiscal year. It really went out of control. The thing about the NDP in Ontario is that it is very good at estimating whatever the surplus or deficit might be.
What I am talking about here is the ability to count. Because if we cannot count and we do not know what the numbers are, it is very hard for people to do any planning if they are not sure what the balance sheet will be at the end of the year. It is hard for the provinces to do planning as well. We are see that now in spades in some provinces, particularly in Manitoba as it worries about this huge overpayment and whether part or all of it might be collected by the federal government.
As we know, the federal government has a taxation agreement with all the provinces except Quebec. It collects these taxes and then makes payments to the provinces in terms of the share of the money that the provinces get.
I also want to spend a few minutes this morning talking about the importance of having an equalization system in the country. This has been part of Canadian fiscal federalism now for quite some time. I can remember many years ago when this was a very important issue in the House in terms of how we create the equality of conditions between the wealthier provinces and the poorer provinces in the country. I remember this during the Trudeau years. I also remember during the constitutional debate when we decided as a country, as a parliament and as provinces to enshrine the principle of equalization in the Constitution of Canada as one of the defining elements of what the country is all about, the creation of the equality of condition between the provinces.
Regardless of whether people come from a poorer province or a wealthier province, the citizens of that province have equal rights to a decent public education, to decent health care, to a decent standard of living and to decent services. If people come from oil rich Alberta where there is a lot of money because oil was discovered there or whether people come from New Brunswick, which has not over the years had the same fiscal ability, people still have the right as citizens of those provinces to have equality of condition. That is what equalization has been all about.
Recently we have had, in particular from the Alliance Party, a movement that is calling into question whether these equalization payments should be there at all or whether these equalization payments should be as high.
Coming from a province like Saskatchewan, which usually gets equalization but a very small part of it, very small payments from equalization, or sometimes does not receive any equalization at all, let me say that it is very important that we defend the principle of equalization and modernize the formula for equalization so that we have greater equality among the provinces.
People should be aware that the Reform Party now the Alliance Party wants to curtail equalization payments. We made a very clear statement about this a week or so ago when the member talked about Atlantic Canadians and how they had developed a psychology of dependency on payments from the federal government. At a press conference he said that other areas and not just Atlantic Canada had this same psychology of dependency.
I wonder to what areas he was referring. He is obviously referring to the other recipients of equalization, which historically have been the provinces of Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Quebec. That kind of narrow minded philosophy is very dangerous. It is not the position of somebody who should be a national leader with a national vision of equality across the country. This is the position of someone with a narrow regional vision who does not see a role for the public sector or for public services as a way to enhance the common good in the country.
It is important to reinforce the idea of proper equalization, that it be updated and that the formula be modernized to ensure that every Canadian, regardless of where they came from and regardless of the province's historic wealth or lack thereof, has an equal opportunity to participate in the public good.
When we look at the motion before us, it is very important to reinforce those ideas. The government across the way has to provide more accurate forecasts as to what the revenues are. We can plan to put more money into public services.
Last year, if the federal government had taken its $10 billion surplus and reinvested two-thirds of that in the economy in terms of our infrastructure, think of the jobs that could have been created. If the federal government had invested some of that money in public health care, we could have had a stronger public health care system in Canada. Unfortunately the provinces' shares have gone up over the last couple of decades and the federal government's share has gone down.
With federal investment we could have a national pharmacare program or a home care program with national standards. However the federal government cannot properly count money coming into the federal treasury. At the end of the year, because of current legislation, any surplus goes automatically toward the national debt and that cheats the country of proper debate on where these surpluses should go. That is why it is important that we have more accurate accounting from across the way.
If the Liberals cannot count figures more accurately, then the very least we should have is a fiscal stabilization fund. At the end of the year any surplus would go into this fund and then parliament, on behalf of Canadians, would decide how much money would go into improved services, how much to the national debt and how much into tax cuts. We could then have a democratic debate in the House of Commons to indicate where taxpayer money would be spent. That is the way we should go, but unfortunately we do not have it today.
Last year there was a surplus of $17 billion. The federal government said that the surplus would be much smaller. What happened to that $17 billion? Every penny of that $17 billion went to pay down the national debt. If Canadians were consulted, I think they would have said that it was important to pay a significant portion on the national debt, but not everything. I believe they would have said to put some of that money into health care, public education, the farm crisis and infrastructure.