Debates of Oct. 29th, 2003

Housing

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for raising this issue.

EnerGuide is a $70 million program that will help homeowners insulate their homes to become more energy efficient. We are using the private sector to ensure that we have people who can evaluate the homes. Unfortunately, it has been slow because the private sector was slow to train for it and because we only announced the program very recently.

However, I can assure the hon. member that we are training more and more people to ensure that they can do the evaluation so Canadians can play an important role in climate change and have more energy efficient homes. We will be there to--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Regina--Qu'Appelle.

Agriculture

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, there are reports from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency that it has found some major deficiencies in sanitation in some 61 federally regulated slaughterhouses in Canada. This could possibly compromise some of the safety of our meat in the country.

My question is, could the minister explain to Canadians why the government allowed this to happen?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, we have government inspectors in all federally inspected plants across this country and their job is to find and to seek out these situations.

The hon. member would see that, for example, in one of the situations there was one carcass that had some contamination. That carcass was pulled out of the food chain until the corrections were made. That is the job of the inspectors. That is why our system is respected and that is why our system works.

Taxation

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, last November the courts penalized Canada Steamship Lines with the largest fine ever issued for ship source pollution, but the deterrence value of the fine is undermined because our income tax laws allow CSL to write off the penalty as a business expense.

I can see why the former finance minister was reluctant to change this outrageous tax loophole, but will the current finance minister please rise in his place today and tell us that he will change the income tax law so that no one in this country will ever be able to get a tax deduction for breaking the law?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would recommend that the member not give tax advice to too many clients. A person cannot get a tax deduction for breaking the law.

In certain cases the courts have determined that some fines may be deductible, but that is not the case for any situation where a fine is imposed for breaking the law. It is something that the courts will determine on a case by case basis.

Child Pornography

[Gerry Ritz, Canadian Alliance, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians continue to speak loud and clear. They want all and any of these so called liberal defences for child pornography eliminated.

Will the justice minister commit today to amending Bill C-20 to reflect the will of the people?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as we said yesterday and I have said many times, there is no place in Canada for those involved in such an offence, nor anywhere else in the world.

The hon. member knows very well that the legislation we have in place is one of the best in the world. Bill C-20 is before the justice committee at the present time. There are good measures to answer the Sharpe decision in order to increase the protection of our children.

I count on the support of the opposition to ensure that we pass that bill as soon as possible.

[Gerry Ritz, Canadian Alliance, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the minister must have inhaled because he is sure blowing smoke.

The Canadian Police Association, the Toronto Police Service, Project Guardian, the Office for Victims of Crime, the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime and Beyond Borders have all said that Bill C-20 will be ineffective in stamping out child pornography.

Why will the minister not commit to making the amendments these groups are putting forward and make the commitment today that he will withdraw all of these goofy defences?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, talking about third party endorsement, let us have a look at what David Griffin of the Canadian Professional Police Association said before the justice committee. He said:

With respect to the definition and defences for child pornography, we are pleased that the Minister of Justice is taking steps to tighten the definitions of child pornography to address recent court challenges, thereby broadening the application of the law and limiting available defences.

Health

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is announcing in advance that he is technically in a deficit position. Since his forecasting skills are totally non-existent, I will take that with a grain of salt.

Is the Minister of Finance not engaged in creating a ready-made artificial deficit, in order to get out of having to pay the $2 billion to the provinces for health services?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I will be providing an explanation of all the figures next week.

I would like to again stress the fact that the forecasts in question do not come from Finance. They come from independent economists in the private sector, and are prepared by computers belonging to the private sector. They are not, therefore, our forecasts.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec and all the provinces are suffering from inadequate health care because of the indiscriminate cuts to the federal budget.

When all is said and done, does the Minister of Finance not find it odious, ridiculous, indecent even, that health care funding should be at the mercy of his budgetary sleight of hand?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the fact that we have signed an agreement with the provinces and added $35 billion to health care is very important. I would, however, very much like to see the health council promised by the provinces materialize as well.

National Defence

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence just announced the downgrading of Leopard tanks with the purchase of 66 uncosted Strykers.

He is doing this to spite his own defence department's scientific report which found that using Strykers over tanks in a battlefield situation could result in over three times the casualties. The report concluded that replacing our tanks with a light vehicle like the Stryker is morally wrong.

Why has the minister chosen a vehicle which puts more Canadian lives at risk?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this is a great day for the army because we are moving forward with state of the art transformational equipment at record speed.

I do not take advice from dated reports, retired military and the opposition; I take it from the current military.

Lieutenant-General Hillier said earlier today that the strong qualities of a Leopard tank parked in Valcartier were useless to soldiers in Kabul. When asked about the loss of the tanks, he went on to say that he was losing a millstone around his neck.

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let him tell that to the Iltis drivers.

Canada already has the smallest tank force in NATO with only 114 tanks. Now the Liberals want to reduce this to merely 66 wheeled vehicles. Not only are we getting a vehicle that is less capable, we are only getting half as many. Under the minister's transformation plan, our army is losing quality and it is losing quantity. This will cost more Canadian lives.

Why is the minister reducing the number of vehicles?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

That is absolute nonsense, Mr. Speaker. When Lieutenant-General Hillier spoke to the regimental sergeant major from Kabul upon his return to Canada, he quoted the soldiers' reactions in Kabul to this vehicle and they thought it was fantastic.

I take my advice from the current soldiers and from the current military leadership, not from the retired military leadership and certainly not from the opposition.

Employment Insurance

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, throughout Canada women entrepreneurs advised the task force that one of the most important contributions this task force could make was to take back to Parliament a recommendation to remove the exclusion of women entrepreneurs from EI legislation, particularly maternity leave.

Could the Minister of Human Resources Development tell us what the government can and will do to address these important concerns?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's task force on women entrepreneurs has emphasized yet again how important the government's decision to double parental benefits has been to Canadian families. It clarifies indeed that women entrepreneurs, those who are self-employed do not pay premiums and therefore do not have access.

I welcome the recommendation of the committee and the information it has provided that suggests that women entrepreneurs are prepared to pay premiums. We will do what we can to provide this important benefit to women entrepreneurs.

Foreign Affairs

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last week in our foreign affairs meetings in Iran with reformist MPs and human rights activists, we were told it helps them inside the regime when we speak up loud and clear outside the regime on human rights issues like the Kazemi case. We believe it was that approach which finally got Canada a guarantee of three seats at the upcoming trial.

Yesterday the Iranian reformist MPs accused the discredited prosecutor in the Kazemi case of a cover-up. What specific steps has the minister taken to communicate loud and clear to the Iranian government that this corrupt prosecutor should be removed from the Kazemi trial?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member from the opposition for his question. I thank him very much for going to Iran. I thank him for following our ambassador to Iran, who I put there to enable parliamentarians to enter into a dialogue with the Iranian government. I have long said we have to work with the reformist members in the Iranian government. I said that to the member and I said it to the House.

The member has constantly said he is responsible for what occurred in Iran in terms of access to the trial, but I remind the hon. member that decision was made days before he arrived there. It was made when we sent our ambassador back and the government engaged in a real conversation--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Okanagan—Coquihalla.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I did not want him to get upset. I am asking him some honest questions about some joint efforts that got some results.

In another meeting last week, this time in Saudi Arabia, we were asked about the possibility of sharing intelligence in the war on terrorism. At the same time we all heard about the intelligence concerns raised about the terrorist threat of surface to air missiles right here at home in Canada. We need effective intelligence capabilities on threats gathering abroad so that we can stop them before they land on our doorstep.

I do not want him to get upset. I am just asking him an honest question. In the interest of protecting Canadians, has the Minister of Foreign Affairs taken any steps to support our request for the creation of a Canadian--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Solicitor General.