Debates of Feb. 14th, 2003

Iraq

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, every other member of the United Nations in the past few months has been able to tell its population where it stands on some of these issues. We are a sovereign country. Canadians have as much right to expect that from their government as any other nation in the world.

I know the real problem is that the Prime Minister faces a clash of civilizations within his own caucus. I will say to the Deputy Prime Minister, the government has been hearing, as have the rest of us, what Hans Blix has been saying today. Does it have any reaction at all to what Dr. Blix is saying on Iraq's--

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure what aspersions the Leader of the Opposition was casting in his reference to clashes of civilizations. Perhaps he might learn a little about civilization before he poses his next question.

In any event, I think it is appropriate we take--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order. We will hear the questions and we will hear the answers.

[John Manley, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is not a clash of civilizations; there is a clash of views.

On that side, the Canadian Alliance is prepared to salute to the United States no matter what it thinks. There has been no time to consider the report and no time to let the world community respond to it.

We believe that the onus in this case lies with the United Nations. The Security Council must consider the information that is being presented to it.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals just keep ducking the issue that they said they would eventually face up to.

Hans Blix told the UN Security Council once again today that Saddam Hussein has not accounted for significant amounts of previously declared weapons of mass destruction. I do not know where the Prime Minister was. He said it today.

Resolution 1441 says that there will be serious consequences for non-compliance.

Will the Prime Minister simply come clean with Canadians on whether the government will stand with its allies in enforcing UN resolution 1441, yes or no?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we urged the Security Council to adopt resolution 1441. It is important that the Security Council have the opportunity to consider the information from the inspectors in order to determine what consequences should flow. Surely that is not too much to ask.

I know that those members have been eager to pull the trigger, but let us at least wait until we have a chance to review the report of Mr. Blix today.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are eager to avoid war by facing up and taking a stand, not by running, not by running from making a decision.

The government straddles the fence on Iraq and has done that so many times it has neutered our own position in the international context. We need an answer. For weeks the Prime Minister promised that the government would make a decision on the day the Blix report came out. Most other members of the international community have made a decision, one way or the other.

Why can the government not make a decision? Canadians deserve to know, our allies deserve to know, and Saddam Hussein deserves to know.

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, could we perhaps have an hour to read the report?

What is it that compels the Canadian Alliance to demand that we insist on going to war within minutes of the inspectors beginning to present their report?

Resolution 1441 provided for an intrusive system of inspection. That is what Canada sought. That is what we have asked for.

The report needs to be considered in all of its respects before the world decides that the use of force, other than in self-defence, is justified.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the inspectors are presenting a new report to the Security Council, the international community fears that the United States will act unilaterally outside the framework of the United Nations.

Since the Prime Minister did not do so yesterday in Chicago, can the Deputy Prime Minister promise this House that there is absolutely no way that Canada will be part of any unilateral action by the U.S.?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there is a clash of views in this House, not a clash of civilizations. I believe that we have supported a very firm resolution because the Iraqi government has to understand that it must destroy its weapons of mass destruction.

We are now waiting for the report that is currently being presented to the UN Security Council.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said yesterday that any action against Iraq should be taken within the framework of the United Nations.

What will Canada's response be if the United States decides to act unilaterally, as it recently threatened to do?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the Security Council has created a situation where there will be a response if Saddam Hussein does not accept the conditions in resolution 1441.

That is why we are waiting for Mr. Blix's report.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it just so happens that the initial comments that we heard about the Blix report confirm that the process put in place under resolution 1441, which was adopted by the UN Security Council, is not completed, but is working well.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell this House that the government is reaching the same conclusions on the inspectors' report, which was tabled today, and that, in this sense, this proves that the inspection process is working well and should be continued?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, neither for the Canadian Alliance nor for the Bloc Quebecois will we judge the report before we have had time to review it. The international community has an obligation to carefully consider the report and determine what measures will be necessary afterwards.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government should realize that the public is quite concerned right now and that one of the major issues is the fact that the role and usefulness of international institutions are being challenged by the United States and its main spokespersons.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell us what immediate action Canada intends to take to defend these international institutions, which it helped build?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I think that this criticism is not justified. In any case, it is the United States that asked for resolution 1441. It is the U.S. Secretary of State who presented the existing evidence, according to the United States, to the Security Council, on February 5.

I think we have a very appropriate position, which is to wait for the report and to examine it in the context of the Security Council, in the context of the international community.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Deputy Prime Minister.

News reports in the last few minutes are saying that Hans Blix has been saying that no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq and the inspectors are now having more freedom to move around the country, but that more time is needed and new spy planes are available to help in that inspection.

In light of that, could the Deputy Prime Minister say whether or not he will be speaking out and calling upon the United Nations and Security Council members to provide more time for inspections to be completed in Iraq, rather than going to war?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I will not be responding in this question period to the content of the Blix report, because I have not had the time, nor has the government, to review it. It is continuing to be presented.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs will respond to the public later today when we have had an opportunity to consider carefully the content of all of the report, not simply excerpts of it.

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Then, Mr. Speaker, I will ask the Deputy Prime Minister about the Prime Minister's speech in Chicago yesterday, where he said going through the United Nations would add “legitimacy to the use of force” in Iraq. Yet the Prime Minister voted against the vote in the House for this House itself voting about going to war.

If the United Nations authorization equals legitimacy, I presume that in the Prime Minister's logic George Bush going alone would equal illegitimacy.

So I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, could he state in the House today that he would not participate in George Bush's war if it does not happen through the United Nations?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again I think we should allow the world community the time to respond to the contents of the report.

I think it is important to recognize the wording of resolution 1441, which was a very strong resolution and which does threaten serious consequences for failure to comply.

What is at issue here is not simply whether or not the inspectors find weapons of mass destruction, but the degree of compliance which the Iraqi government affords to the intrusive inspection regime that the resolution requires.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question which the Deputy Prime Minister can answer today.

Dr. Blix has just emphasized to the Security Council how important it is that his inspection team have access to intelligence information available to member states of the United Nations.

Has Canada acted directly to make available to Dr. Blix all intelligence information that has come to Canada's attention which might be useful to the UN inspection team in Iraq?

If Canada has not done that, would the Deputy Prime Minister explain why and would he undertake now to make all such information available to Dr. Blix from now on?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, once again I think we will wait and see what Dr. Blix has reported.

I am not going to get into a discussion about classified information and what use is made of it, but I will say that it is of great importance to the people of Canada and to the world community that not only do we achieve the disarmament of Saddam Hussein, but that the world conduct itself in a way that respects the norms of international law.

Taxation

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Rod Bryden, a prominent Liberal and friend of the finance minister, wants to use $60 million of Canadian taxpayers' money to pull the Ottawa Senators hockey team out of bankruptcy.

Why would the government accept a deal that will cost Canadian taxpayers $60 million when there are other cash offers on the table to keep the Senators in Ottawa that will not cost Canadian taxpayers a penny?