Debates of Feb. 18th, 2003

Black History Month

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pride that I stand in the House today to lend my voice to the chorus raised in recent weeks in celebration and support of our African Canadian communities.

My riding of Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough is home of vibrant African Nova Scotian communities in Trenton, New Glasgow, Antigonish, Monastery, Upper Big Tracadie, Sunnyville and Lincolnville.

From the Afrikan Canadian Heritage and Friendship Centre in Guysborough to the Black Community Development Centre in New Glasgow, to Brothers and Sisters of the African Diaspora in St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish, African Nova Scotians in the riding are intricately involved in weaving the rich tapestry of culture, music and economics that is Nova Scotia.

With this year's celebration of the Black Business Initiative, African Nova Scotians continue the tradition of community development groups like the Tracadie Baptist Church.

On behalf of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and my Nova Scotia colleagues, I wish to offer my congratulations and thanks to the African Nova Scotian communities which continue to be part of Nova Scotia's forward and upward movement into the new millennium.

Bobsleigh World Cup

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Bras D'Or—Cape Breton, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is truly a winter sport nation. This was underlined again recently as we saw success on the ski slopes and trails, on the skating track, and on the bobsled run.

Edmonton, Alberta's Pierre Lueders, along with brakeman Guilio Zardo of Montreal, Quebec, won the two-man bobsleigh world cup title this past weekend at Calgary's Canada Olympic Park. Mr. Lueders, a 13 year veteran of the national bobsleigh team, has now won five world cup titles. This was the first title for Mr. Zardo who is a second year national team member.

On behalf of all Canadians I would like to congratulate these two athletes on their recent victory.

Hockey

[Roy H. Bailey, Canadian Alliance, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians from coast to coast joined together last Saturday to celebrate Hockey Day in Canada. Excitement was everywhere except in the city of Saskatoon where the board of governors of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League were meeting to decide the very future of the league.

Revenue Canada had placed fines and penalities on each team who in turn had to pay these fines with borrowed money. There are 135 junior teams and 3,375 players across Canada. It is estimated that there are 2,000 volunteers supporting these teams.

I received a letter from the Canadian Junior “A” Hockey League asking us to lead a campaign to stop Revenue Canada's taxation. It is cheap, chintzy and above all it is a national disgrace to junior hockey in a country that calls hockey its game.

Ethics

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was unable to answer the question I asked yesterday about blind trusts. He has had 24 hours to find an answer, so I am asking the question again.

Is it normal practice for ministers to be allowed to receive regular private briefings about the business of companies they own?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for LaSalle—Émard, like all ministers, is required to follow the rules set out in the guide we provide to all ministers when they are appointed. When he was Minister of Finance, he fulfilled all his obligations. He followed all the rules he was given, and managed his affairs so as to be totally free of conflict of interest. That is what Mr. Wilson replied yesterday when he was questioned about this.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I am simply asking what those rules actually are. Canadians have been led to believe that ministers of the Liberal government operated under a blind trust. Now we all know that the former finance minister was apparently allowed to know about his company's business dealings and sit in on numerous meetings concerning those dealings.

Is it true that the former finance minister could know about his company's business dealings under these so-called blind trust rules?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have only to ask the Leader of the Opposition to do his homework. These regulations are on Mr. Wilson's website. He has only to check and it is all there. It describes how they have to operate when they have a situation of that nature. When people have their own company, they have to put it in a blind trust.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Prime Minister to do his homework and after 10 years be able to answer a question on this subject.

Could the Prime Minister confirm that the former finance minister was not actually under the rules of a specific blind trust but had a so-called special supervisory agreement? Under this arrangement, the Liberal ethics counsellor has reportedly stated that the former finance minister could also provide direction to his companies.

Could the Prime Minister explain how such an arrangement could possibly prevent conflict of interest in a cabinet portfolio?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there are a few instances like that where a member of the cabinet is the owner of his own company and he has set that up to be managed by trustees and has not given any instructions to the trustees. However he has the right to be informed of the trend of the company, because there is no other way. It is not like having stocks that belong to the trust, it is a private company.

He acted on that file completely according to the rules and what was needed for good administration.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, anybody could operate under those rules. I happen to have the conflict of interest guidelines in front of me and there is zero mention of any such supervisory agreement.

Since there is no mention of such an agreement in that conflict of interest guideline, why did the Prime Minister approve an arrangement where the former finance minister looked like he was in a conflict of interest?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the text is available on the website of Mr. Wilson who has to manage these situations that are different than when they have shares in other companies. It is a management organization where they have trustees who decide everything. However, like anybody who has a trust, he can be informed once or twice a year about the orientation of the company. He is still in a position to know what is going on without making any decision, but be sure that his assets are being protected as well as possible.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the former finance minister had the most to lose and the most to gain in his personal finances when he was in the cabinet. That is why a blind trust was so important for this individual. That is why he could not be in conflict of interest if he did have true blind trust.

I ask again, why did the Prime Minister approve an arrangement where it looks like the former finance minister could have been in a conflict of interest?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have explained it is a situation that does not occur very often, that it is a privately owned company. He named a trustee to run this asset and he ensured that he was briefed in the presence of Mr. Wilson once or twice a year about the results of what was happening. It is the same thing as a blind trust. We have the right to know once a year if we still have money in the blind trust. It is the same thing for the former minister of finance.

Iraq

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Bloc Quebecois asked the Prime Minister to flatly reject any Canadian participation in a coalition of willing countries formed by the United States to wage war against Iraq.

The Prime Minister sidestepped the question even though the public has a right to know. This is a matter of principle which is in no way hypothetical for a Prime Minister who claims to support the United Nations.

Will the Prime Minister state that under no circumstances will Canada give in to the United States by participating in a coalition of willing countries against Iraq?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have not been asked and we do not intend to take part in a voluntary group. The government's policy is very clear. If there must be a war in Iraq, we want it to be approved by the Security Council. There may be another Security Council resolution. When the issue has been debated, we will see what we will do. However, our policy is to follow the directives set out by the Security Council.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think that we will soon come to the same objective. I want to know one thing clearly. Ms. Rice, Mr. Powell, Mr. Bush and Mr. Rumsfeld are saying, “We are going ahead, regardless of what the UN decides, and we are counting on allies”.

Is it very clear that Canada is not one of these allies, without the United Nations? That is the question.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they can say whatever they want. Canada's policy will be clearly set by the Government of Canada. We have said that we want to abide by the provisions of resolution 1441. The inspectors are pursuing their work right now. There will certainly be another report soon, and there will be another debate at the Security Council.

Canada's policy is well known. If they want to go ahead alone, they are free to do so. However, we have said that they should only go in with the authority of the United Nations. If they do so on their own, the international peace and security system will likely be destabilized more than it should be.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in spite of the fact that the Prime Minister argued in his speech in Chicago that it was important that action in Iraq be taken through the United Nations, the Americans continue to maintain that there is a possibility they could act in Iraq without the United Nations.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that by cultivating ambiguity, as he is doing by playing both sides and remaining evasive in his statements, he is making the speech he made in Chicago meaningless?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member cared to read the document adopted yesterday by the Europeans, she would notice that it is almost a carbon copy of my speech of last Thursday in Chicago.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Americans, who are unabashedly stating they will move on Iraq with or without the United Nations, are undermining the credibility of the organization.

Will the Prime Minister admit that, as a nation that believes in the role of the United Nations, Canada has a responsibility to tell the U.S. administration that it will not let the U.S. give the UN ultimatums by threatening to act without it?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what is very clear is that, in making representations, the Government of Canada has above all steadfastly supported the UN. The Prime Minister and the government have argued that it is up to the Security Council to face up to its responsibilities and set the terms and conditions of resolution 1441.

This approach enables us to contribute to making an eventual resolution of this crisis possible. Taking rhetorical positions is not conducive to any real solution.

Conflict of Interest

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is related to the issue of blind trusts for cabinet ministers, but it goes beyond what might be called the peeping Paul provisions. It has to do with coal and the Kyoto accord.

Does the Prime Minister, who would know that the future of coal as an energy source may be intimately related to the implementation of the Kyoto accord, not think that the conflict of interest guidelines should be amended to make sure that no future Prime Minister responsible for the implementation of the Kyoto accord should be involved in the coal shipping business.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they are really running out of steam here.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if what is also running out of steam is the promise that the former finance minister made to firefighters with respect to changes in the accrual rules for their pensions. This is something that could be done in the budget this afternoon.

Could the Prime Minister, whose caucus has repeatedly promised firefighters this change, tell us whether firefighters will be disappointed this afternoon or delighted with changes made in the budget?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member of the NDP that he does not need a lot of steam to wait until four o'clock.