Debates of March 25th, 2003

Iraq

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the U.S. ambassador to Canada finds it ironic “that Canadians are indirectly providing more support for Bush's war in Iraq than all of the coalition partners except the U.K.”. It is worse than ironic. It is compelling evidence of Canada's complicity in Bush's war. It is outright defiance of Parliament's vote for Canada's non-participation.

Will the Prime Minister give immediate notice of our military's orderly withdrawal, or simply admit that Canada is participating in this illegal war?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence explained clearly the role of these soldiers. They have been on loan for some time with the British and American armies. They have been in a support role for a long time and they are doing their jobs. They are not engaged in combat. Under instructions they can only use arms in self-defence.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the defence minister asks us to believe that the safety of 300,000 soldiers somehow depends upon 31 Canadian military officers. Canada must disengage from its military involvement. We should be focusing our efforts on the tragic humanitarian crisis that is unfolding in Iraq.

Can the government for once not show some leadership and work with the humanitarian agencies that are desperately trying to address the humanitarian crisis? Will the government agree to do that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this morning the ambassador to the UN, Mr. Heinbecker, briefed the cabinet about what the United Nations is doing at this time to get organized to deliver what is needed for the population who is suffering from the consequences of the war.

He was here and has been discussing the issue with the cabinet. We will deal with this as quickly as possible to ensure that humanitarian aid goes to the people who are victims of this conflict.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is an urgent need for food and humanitarian aid in Iraq. There is also a need for a reconstruction program that goes beyond humanitarian--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. It is impossible for the Chair to hear the right hon. member for Calgary Centre. It is important that the Chair be able to hear. Members sometimes say things that are out of order. How can the Chair make rulings on matters like that if there is all this yelling going on? We need some quiet so we can hear the right hon. member's question.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask about the need for urgent aid in Iraq if government members care about that at all.

There is a need for food and humanitarian aid there. There is also a need for a reconstruction program that goes beyond humanitarian aid and that is seen by the Iraqi people as being fair. A Pentagon run reconstruction program will not be seen to be fair. A UN led plan could be.

Ambassador Heinbecker met with the government today. Is the government considering plans to initiate a UN led--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we met with the ambassador today and we discussed this very problem. We want it to be done in a multilateral approach. This morning on TV, Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain mentioned that the need for reconstruction and aid should be done in a multilateral way. We are in agreement with that. That is exactly the mandate that Ambassador Heinbecker received from the cabinet this morning.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Prime Minister Blair will meet Kofi Annan on Thursday to discuss both the oil for food program and reconstruction in Iraq. Mr. Blair will also meet President Bush to use Britain's constructive influence on the Americans.

The Prime Minister will have noted that France has threatened to veto any British resolution respecting reconstruction. The Prime Minister has a close connection to the President of France.

Would he tell the House what he is doing to bring France into an agreement with a Security Council resolution that would authorize the United Nations, not the Pentagon, to lead reconstruction in Iraq?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if the leader of the fifth party will not get up tomorrow and have a completely different position because that was the case yesterday regarding the war.

Our position has always been very clear. In all of these circumstances Canada is always behind any form of aid that will go through multilaterally and not unilaterally. Reconstruction and humanitarian aid should proceed the same way. I will say so to any government that wants to have the views of the Canadian government.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 2001, Amnesty International reported, and I quote, “...torture is used systematically against political detainees. The scale and severity of the torture in Iraq can only result from the acceptance of its use at the highest level”.

The implication is clear. Saddam's regime is guilty of crimes against humanity. The evidence is overwhelming, yet the government's response is underwhelming. Why will the government not do what is right and help free the citizens of Iraq?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I believe this was raised in the House yesterday, and it was raised in the committee this morning. The government is more than prepared and is anxiously willing to participate in any tribunal that would be set up after this conflict to judge the perpetrators of crimes against humanity, as alleged by the opposition.

That is why we have strongly urged the establishment of an International Criminal Court. That is why our government has always been consistent on establishing a rule of law that enables us to get to these issues with a principle, a legal principle and a principle of law, and we will continue those efforts, I can assure the House of that.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the meantime it will maintain diplomatic relations with Saddam and that is unacceptable.

The government claims that only the UN Security Council has the moral and legal authority to deal with Saddam Hussein. This is the body that allowed a million people to be massacred in Rwanda and allowed ethnic cleansing to almost wipe out the Muslim population in Yugoslavia. The UN has abandoned the people of Iraq, but that does not mean that Canada has to as well. Will the government do what is right and join the 40 nation coalition to free the people of Iraq?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, with an introduction like that, let us remember that at the height of the cold war, when the United States and Russia were assuring each other of mutual destruction, they kept up diplomatic relations, for obvious reasons. Let us keep our heads. Let us work our way through this. Let us recognize that there are other paths and ways other than using violence to settle these issues.

Let us recognize that we have good positions on these issues like dealing with international criminals of the nature of Saddam Hussein and we will continue to pursue those in Canada's interests and in Canadian ways.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, American supply ships that were not able to unload in Turkey are now en route to the Persian Gulf and will therefore be escorted, protected and defended as needed by Canadian warships. The Prime Minister said, “We will escort all ships”.

Will the Prime Minister admit that the function of these Canadian war ships is directly linked to the war in Iraq, that the smokescreen of the war on terrorism has lifted and that Canada is clearly taking part in the war against Iraq?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, Canada is proud to participate in the war on terrorism in the gulf. Do I have to repeat it a hundred times? We are proud; we are there. The risk of terrorism is higher now; we are staying there. We do not want to leave the area, as the Bloc Quebecois has proposed, as soon as the risks increase. We are there, we are proud to be there and we will stay there.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, and again today, the Minister of National Defence said that he had not withdrawn Canadian soldiers from American or British units because we must not offend—that is what he said—the Americans any further.

Does this statement by the Minister of National Defence, along with the one made today, not explain the ambiguity of Canada's position, which consists in saying we are against the war in Iraq but, in fact, taking part in that war?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there is no ambiguity when it comes to the government's position. There are two key principles, as the Prime Minister said.

First, we are not taking part in the war, for multilateral reasons, as the Prime Minister explained. Second, we are enthusiastically and proudly there to take part in the war on terrorism. These are two clear principles that are not ambiguous.

Canada-U.S. Relations

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today the U.S. ambassador to Canada made the following observation. He said that when Premier Klein “issues strong support for the United States, the Canadian government comes down hard on him”, but when the energy minister “makes totally inappropriate remarks about the President of the United States, they totally ignore it”. Just why is it that the government cracks down on Canadian friends of the United States but tolerates anti-American potshots from within its own ranks?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, on the comment made by Mr. Klein, I never said a word about it. In the case of members of Parliament, anybody who was in the House, who was in the corridors, who was at the caucus last week, knew very well that I said to everybody that we have to respect the decision of the Americans, as they respect our own decisions. I said that no comment should be made against the Americans. The member of my party has received his instructions and is following them very clearly. I hope that it is noted by the people concerned.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for months the U.S. ambassador has bit his tongue in the face of the pattern of anti-American sentiment from the Prime Minister's caucus, but finally he has lost his patience, like many Canadians who are upset with the government's policy of undermining our most important foreign relationship.

Could the Prime Minister tell us, does he agree with Ambassador Cellucci when he says that he could be doing a much better job in stopping the anti-American attacks from the Liberal Party?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the ambassador said that he was disappointed that we are not in agreement with the Americans, and we are disappointed that we could not agree. If there had been more work done at the UN, we might have been able to agree. We can disagree, but he said that the relations between Canada and the United States are very important and have to remain strong. I appreciate that he said that to a Toronto businessmen's group this morning.

Iraq

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian soldiers are actively taking part in the ground offensive in Iraq. There are Canadian pilots in the skies and Canadian marines in the Persian Gulf; in short, Canada is taking part by land, air and sea.

I would ask the Prime Minister the following question. If Canada had decided to take part in the war in Iraq, what more would we be doing?