Debates of Oct. 27th, 2004

Sponsorship Program

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, again, I will not comment on day to day testimony before Justice Gomery because I do not want to make the same kinds of errors the opposition seems intent on doing on almost a day by day basis.

However, I will comment when the opposition makes allegations that are clearly false, and this is one of those cases. The contract in question was selected through a process in which the Prime Minister did not intervene.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the facts say otherwise but facts have never been a real concern to the minister.

The Prime Minister has promised to come clean and to fully co-operate with Justice Gomery. Meanwhile, his lawyers are trying to keep documents from Justice Gomery and delay the Prime Minister's appearance.

In the House the Prime Minister ducks questions and has that minister, of sorts, answering his questions. Elsewhere he hides behind his lawyers.

Why is it so hard for the Prime Minister to come clean and tell the whole truth about his role in ad scam?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the facts.

The only reason that hon. member can comment on day to day testimony in front of Gomery is the fact that there is a Gomery commission. The only reason we have a Gomery commission is that the Prime Minister acted swiftly and decisively to establish the Gomery commission. He is not afraid and the government is not afraid of the results from that commission, which is why we are allowing Justice Gomery to do his work and not interfering on a day to day basis. We would urge similar courage on that side of the House.

Taxation

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Premier of Quebec and most of the provincial and territorial premiers have said they are disappointed with the results of the federal-provincial conference and are having trouble understanding the Prime Minister's stubborn refusal to satisfy their claims, while the federal government is knee-deep in surpluses.

When the surplus in Ottawa for the current fiscal year is expected to be between $10 billion and $12 billion, how can the Prime Minister justify his intransigence toward Quebec and the provinces that will not be receiving anything more than what was offered to them at the health conference?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, many of the premiers said they were very satisfied with the agreement we discussed yesterday. There certainly are differences of opinion, just as there are differences of opinion among the provinces.

Nevertheless, I can tell the leader of the Bloc Québécois that this is the most important change with respect to equalization in the country's history. Some $28 billion to $33 billion or more will be turned over to the provinces during the next decade. That is additional money, something that has not ever been seen before.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Jean Charest and finance minister Séguin did indeed look very happy yesterday.

While the federal government is accumulating surpluses in order to invade the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces, it is refusing to put the money from those surpluses into equalization, a federal program, where it is needed.

Will the Prime Minister admit that he would be much better advised to use these surpluses to ease the fiscal imbalance faced by Quebec and the provinces, rather than in areas not in his jurisdiction?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, since the leader of the Bloc Québécois has asked the question, this year, that is, 2004-05, Quebec will receive an extra $477 million, bringing its equalization total to $4.155 billion.

Next year it will be an extra $1.1 billion. This money is coming from yesterday's agreement, money that was not there a month ago.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister forgot to say is that he has cut $2 billion from Quebec over the past two years. He forgot to mention that.

The federal government collected $9.1 billion too much last year and is preparing to do the same this year. Experts predict that the grand total of the surpluses will be between $10 billion and $12 billion—at least.

Does the Prime Minister understand that what we are asking him to do is to keep enough money for his own needs and leave the remaining tax fields to Quebec and the provinces, which are severely short of funding to provide services to the public?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the combination of the contributions the Government of Canada is making in new money in health and new money in equalization will add up over the next 10 years to $74 billion more in funding for the provinces across the country. That is the largest change ever.

It is extremely important to help the provinces meet the requirements that they have to face within their jurisdiction.

At the federal level, we continue to work on the needs of children and families. We work on the needs of cities and communities. We work on the needs of senior citizens--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister wants to talk about the combination, then let us talk. With the health conference and yesterday's conference combined, for Quebec will get $800 million in additional funding.

Does the minister realize that the surplus for the last fiscal year and for the coming year will contain $2 billion in tax overpayments by Quebeckers? In all, after the two conferences, the government is giving us a combined total of $800 million and expects us to be thankful, even though the government has bummed $2 billion in surplus from Quebec.

Does the Prime Minister realize that the only way to resolve the problem once and for all is to resolve the fiscal imbalance?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would point out to the hon. gentleman that one of the premiers, among several yesterday, made the observation that they had made more progress in dealing with the financial relationships within Confederation in the last 22 weeks than they had made in the previous 22 years.

Government Policies

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, here is what the Prime Minister said during the election:

Since I entered politics I have always kept my promises. I do what I say.

Well it turns out--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Toronto--Danforth has the floor. We will have a little order so we can hear.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. members are jumping to conclusions.

As it happens, the Prime Minister has not even kept his promise that he will keep his promises. Let us take a look at the first two first ministers meetings. In the first case, the promise to keep privatization under control was abandoned and Ralph Klein can privatize all he wants. In the second first ministers meeting, the premier is sent home to Newfoundland and Labrador with a broken promise.

When will the Prime Minister break the habit of saying one thing and--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes reference to the health care deal: $41 billion over the course of the next 10 years, national benchmarks, accountability to Canadians, a home care fund, and money invested in creating new doctors, nurses and paramedics. This was Mr. Romanow of the hon. member's party, or at least at one time. The fact is that Mr. Romanow said that this was an epic-making event in terms of the development of health care, and Mr. Romanow was right.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's party in the last election ran ads showing credit card medicine and yet we see credit card medicine in privatization growing willy-nilly all over the country. That is the promise that he has broken to Canadians.

Only somebody who flies foreign flags on their ships and claims to be a Canadian nationalist could deal with the disconnect between what they do and what they say.

Let us look at the record: child care promise broken, Kyoto promise broken, credit card medicine broken, and now another promise broken to Atlantic Canada.

When will the Prime Minister take some responsibility for his broken promises?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, let us take a look at what those commitments are: the most important equalization deal since the second world war. A meeting on child care and early learning will be held next week among the officials and among the ministers, and long before the OECD report came out, because the government understands the importance of early childhood development and child care.

We will give $7 billion over a period of 10 years in GST rebates to the cities. We are now sitting down with the cities and the communities to make sure the gas tax flows. The government keeps its commitments.

Sponsorship Program

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in February 2004 the Prime Minister said

Anyone who knows anything that could help shed light in this area--in the government, in the caucus or anywhere in the country, corporations or in the Liberal Party--should come forward and not wait to be compelled to do so as they will.

When will the Prime Minister show the leadership he demands of others by detailing for Canadians what he knows?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has acted decisively. He ended the sponsorship program. There is the Gomery commission. We are cooperating with it fully. We are providing over 10 million pages of documents, including cabinet documents.

The Prime Minister has said all along that he has no difficulty with appearing before Justice Gomery and participating in the inquiry. We are not afraid of getting to the bottom of this. We want truth in government, which is what Canadians want. I expect that is what the hon. member wants, which is why he ought to support the work of Justice Gomery.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is developing a growing credibility gap. Now it turns out that the Prime Minister, the guy who initially said that he knew nothing about the sponsorship scandal, was actually in the thick of it with another contract to Claude Boulay of Groupe Everest who worked on his leadership campaign.

When the Prime Minister said that anybody with information should come forward, why did he not release his correspondence with Groupe Everest? Why does he still continue to hide what he knows from Canadians today?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians chose this minority Parliament and they want us to make it work. They want us to focus on their priorities: on health care, child care, equalization and environmental issues.

I would urge the hon. member opposite, in fact all members of the House, to focus on those priorities and to let Justice Gomery do his work.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, evidence mounts that calls the Prime Minister's word into question.

First there were revelations he intervened to ensure sponsorship thousands flowed to his bagman and now there is a letter showing he directed a fat contract to a leadership supporter. This is in the face of his pledge on national TV that, “I had no idea what was going on here”. Then, add yesterday's reneging on a public promise to Newfoundland and Labrador.

Does the Prime Minister really believe he can continue to hold a position of high trust with his credibility unravelling so badly?