Debates of Oct. 28th, 2004

Sponsorship Program

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, regarding the sponsorship scandal, the Prime Minister said, on February 10, “I had no idea what was going on here”. Yet, after being referred by the Prime Minister, Claude Boulay, a close ally during the 1990 leadership campaign, was awarded a $65,000 contract, with the money coming from the national unity fund, for a campaign to promote Canada's visibility in Quebec, during the referendum campaign.

In light of such a blatant case of patronage, can the Prime Minister rise in this House and repeat that he did not know anything?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, this shows that we should not comment here, in the House, on day to day testimony before the Gomery commission.

Today, Mrs. Larose's testimony clearly indicated that there was no interference or intervention on the part of a minister in this issue.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the public has the right to know, but the Prime Minister, who claimed to want to get to the bottom of this issue, is now refusing to account for his actions in the House, even though nothing prevents him from doing so. I am simply asking him to answer the same questions that we put to him before the election.

With his attitude, is the Prime Minister not confirming that his behaviour is more a matter for the judiciary than for the parliamentary?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again the Prime Minister and the government have nothing to hide. The Prime Minister had the courage to set up the Gomery commission, to give it the resources it required to do its job and to provide to Justice Gomery all the information required, which was over 10 million pages of documents, including cabinet documents.

The Prime Minister has said consistently that he has no difficulty in appearing before Justice Gomery. I would urge patience and a bit of wisdom on the opposition benches on this issue so we can actually get to the truth on this, and allow Justice Gomery to do his work.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for someone who knew nothing of the sponsorship program, the Prime Minister was pretty efficient and active, following up on a letter from his good friend Claude Boulay, who was offering the services of his advertising firm.

How can the Prime Minister claim not to know anything when his letter to his “Dear Claude” resulted directly in a $65,000 contract for Groupe Everest?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, again I will not comment on day to day testimony, but I will comment when the opposition allegations are clearly false. The contract in question was selected through a tendering process in which the Prime Minister did not intervene.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the amount of the contract Claude Boulay secured through the Prime Minister was increased from $50,000 to $65,000. Normally, this amount should have been paid by Public Works, on behalf of the Federal Office of Regional Development for Quebec; instead, it was paid out of the national unity fund.

How could the Prime Minister say that Jean Chrétien was keeping him away from his national unity strategy, when he freely used the fund for his own department, since he was the minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development? He did not agree with the fund, but he dipped into it.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat once again that this was a tendering process that was fair and it was a tendering process in which the Prime Minister did not intervene. It is curious. The hon. member opposite speaks about the sponsorship program as if only Liberals were aware of it. In fact I have a letter here from April 24, 2001, from the hon. member to the then minister of public works seeking specific funding from the sponsorship program. It was a government program. Members of Parliament from all parties were aware of the sponsorship program.

Natural Resources

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians get angry when the Prime Minister gives them promises and then he breaks them. Liberals get angry. Premiers get angry, like Danny Williams whom I spoke to today. The Prime Minister does not seem to realize that he is the problem, not the others.

He promised 100%. He did not deliver. Could he explain to Canadians how it is that when he promises 100% and does not deliver, he is not breaking his promise?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that what I said to the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador is exactly the commitment that I am prepared to carry through with and have set out.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I can see why the Prime Minister and George Bush get along. Neither of them is ever wrong.

I want to ask a question about the staff. We have staff in the Prime Minister's office who insult premiers. They lose premiers' messages on important issues. They cancel VIA Rail funding. What is going on is really quite astounding.

Today in the papers we read that the staff in the Prime Minister's office said that the premier would pay for just simply demanding what the Prime Minister promised. Why are these people still employed?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I have already stated in this House, those remarks were unfortunate. The director of communications has apologized for them, and I have discussed it with the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Sponsorship Program

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when the sponsorship scandal broke, the Prime Minister claimed innocence. He told Canadians, “I did not know anything about it”, that he had been kept out of the loop. About the national unity fund, he said, “I have not used it”.

Now, of course, we know that he got thousands of sponsorship dollars for his personal bagman. He got a fat contract from the unity fund for a leadership supporter.

He was in the loop, lobbying for a piece of the action. Why does the Prime Minister not answer these discrepancies, openly here in Parliament, as a leader should?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again the hon. member, as a lawyer, ought to recognize the importance of the independence of a judicial inquiry. We have seen daily testimony contradicted by other days' testimony in front of Justice Gomery. Justice Gomery is not prematurely jumping to conclusions. He has the wisdom, as a noted legalist, to wait until all the testimony is in to make a sound decision and write a good report from which all Canadians will benefit. I wish the hon. member and her colleagues would have a little of that wisdom and respect the independence of Justice Gomery's work.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the Liberals would show a little respect for Canadians and for their own Parliament. The Prime Minister continues to stonewall in the face of growing revelations showing his involvement. He was the one who demanded that anyone who knew anything about the program must step forward immediately. However, now he says it is good enough to testify later. Except that has not stopped him from talking to the media to try to whitewash the damaging new facts.

Why is the Prime Minister so afraid to stand up in Parliament and give Canadians the truth?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again it is quite obvious that the Prime Minister is cooperating fully by setting up the Justice Gomery inquiry and by providing over 10 million pages of documents to Justice Gomery, including cabinet documents. I would urge the hon. member to listen to the editorial board of the Chronicle-Herald which said:

It's only natural for [the Conservative Leader] to make political hay out of the scandal...[the Conservative Leader] should show patience in letting the inquiry do its probe. After all, the commission is paying the Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois a combined $775,000 for them to fulfil their observer status--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Provencher.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that Canadians are being stonewalled by the minister.

The Prime Minister claims that he had no involvement in the sponsorship fiasco, yet a growing mound of evidence points in an opposite direction. This failure to immediately disclose the extent of his involvement casts a dark shadow on his ability to lead the Government of Canada.

If he has nothing to hide, he should stand in the House and explain to Canadians his direct communication with the ad agency Groupe Everest.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I guess I should not be surprised that the hon. member is opposed to the independence of our judiciary because in 2003 he said that there was a lot of distrust in general toward the judiciary and that it was leading a lot of people to be very fearful of giving powers to the judiciary.

We in this party are proud of our independent judiciary and proud of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We defend them. We are not equivocal or contemptuous of them.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a minister who every day shows contempt for this House and, more important, contempt for the people of Canada.

The Prime Minister knows that the independent Gomery inquiry in no way impedes his ability or his obligation to disclose the truth to Canadians here, today, in Parliament.

Rather than relying on a non-existent principle, why will the Prime Minister not simply stand up and tell the truth?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the Prime Minister has demonstrated complete openness, transparency and cooperation in working with Justice Gomery because he is not afraid of the truth. In fact, the Prime Minister provided those documents to which the hon. member referred.

I believe the question from the hon. member, who is a lawyer and a former attorney general, is based on his contempt for the independence of our judiciary.

He said again in 2003 that the use of the charter of rights was undermining democracy in Canada. That is what he said.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the Gomery commission started its proceedings, the Prime Minister, who systematically refuses to answer our questions, has been hiding behind the Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

I have a question for the minister pertaining directly to his department. Several firms were contracted to design a logo for the Canada Information Office, at a cost of $620,000, but no one can find it.

Finding the logo, that is his responsibility. Where is this $620,000 logo?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the hon. member who is my critic within the Bloc Quebecois. I believe that was her first question in the House of Commons.

I have to somewhat reject the premise of her question because it is based on daily testimony before Gomery. I would urge her to once again demonstrate patience and respect for the independent judicial work of Justice Gomery.

We look forward to receiving that report. I am sure she will find it as instructive as we will.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has known for a week that $620,000 was spent on a logo.

Could the minister tell whether or not he has looked for, seen or located the logo? That is his responsibility.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the agency to which the hon. member referred no longer exists. We have moved beyond to the point where we have overhauled our advertising approaches. We have an open, fair and transparent advertising process that will ensure that Canadian taxpayers get the best value. At the same time, government departments and agencies will get the high quality advertising and information they need.