Debates of Oct. 28th, 2004

Sponsorship Program

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has said on many occasions, and particularly just before the election campaign, that he knew nothing about the sponsorship scandal. We beg to differ. It is his word against ours. Since we have learned that his office intervened, his department intervened and he, himself, intervened to obtain contracts for his friends, the Prime Minister must admit that there is quite a bit of evidence tipping the balance against him.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Does he still maintain that neither he nor anyone from his office knew anything about the sponsorship scandal?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been completely clear from the beginning that he, like all members of Parliament in this House, was aware of the sponsorship program. It was a national program after all. He was not aware of any alleged malfeasance. When he became aware of alleged malfeasance as a result of the Auditor General's report, he acted swiftly to end the sponsorship program, to establish Justice Gomery's inquiry and, furthermore, to work closely with and cooperate with Justice Gomery. We have provided over 10 million pages of documents, including cabinet documents. We are not afraid of the truth.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we find disappointing about these responses is that the new Minister of Public Works, who used to be on this side of the House, has learned a lot from Alfonso Gagliano, because that is exactly how he used to answer us until the Auditor General's report was tabled.

When the Prime Minister formed his cabinet he said that no one in it knew about the sponsorship scandal or had anything to do with it.

Today, I am asking him to rise from his seat and make that exact same statement, if he can.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is quite capable of speaking of his knowledge. In fact, that is why he has volunteered from the very beginning to appear before Justice Gomery. He has no difficulty doing that.

The opposition ought to accept yes as an answer and look forward to the very diligent and important work that Justice Gomery is completing on behalf of the people of Canada, and not, instead, prejudge and interfere with that important work.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when the Prime Minister started out as finance minister, Transparency International, which ranked countries according to corruption, ranked Canada as the fifth cleanest. By the time he was finished as finance minister, Canada had slid to 11th place. Since he became Prime Minister, the slide has continued and Canada is down to number 12.

The Prime Minister said that he wanted to get to the bottom of the sponsorship scandal, but he is acting more like he wants to get to the bottom of the clean government index.

Will the Prime Minister help Canada and come clean by telling us when he first knew his office made calls seeking sponsorship funds for his Liberal fundraising friends?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, if the member wants to talk about the degree to which the Prime Minister is being recognized for his openness and transparency, the information commissioner, in his recent report to Parliament, lauded the Prime Minister for early moves to boost transparency. He said that the Prime Minister was confronting head on the attitude of secrecy in the corridors of power in Ottawa.

Furthermore, he said that there were early and positive signs that the government would be sufficiently self-confident, courageous and honest enough to beat the secrecy addiction to which most governments fall victim.

That is what the information commissioner said about the Prime Minister and the government.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians and people who do business in Canada think a little differently.

Transparency International surveys those trying to do business on whether they think one must exercise undue influence to get things done because a government is corrupt.

Canada is losing out on real decisions on investing, creating jobs, getting economic growth and prosperity all because of this.

The refusal of the Prime Minister to be transparent and answer simple questions on his involvement in the sponsorship affair is fuelling the slide in Canada's standing.

Why will the Prime Minister not just tell the House what he knew and when he knew it?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, to hear the ludicrous suggestion that Canada is somehow slipping behind in terms of economic performance is absolute rubbish. We moved from the bottom of the G-8 countries, in the first part of the 1990s, to the top of the G-8 countries. We have the best record for fiscal responsibility, the best record for job creation and the best record for economic wealth.

Natural Resources

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister, who said in 1991 that we were a culture of dependency, promised to give Newfoundland and Labrador 100% of its offshore petroleum production revenues.

He has gone back on his promise. Now his lackey, Scott Reid, says that Premier Williams may get some short term gain but that he will pay for it in the long run.

I ask the Prime Minister, who tried to bribe us in the past, is he now trying to blackmail us for the future?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has already noted that the comments referred to by the hon. gentleman are unfortunate and have been apologized for, as is the appropriate thing to do.

With respect to the ongoing work on the offshore issue, I want to assure the hon. gentleman that the Government of Canada takes that issue extremely seriously and, just like Premier Williams, we want to find a solution that works well for Newfoundland.

[Norman Doyle, Conservative, St. John's North, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's aide has stepped over the line this time in threatening Newfoundland and Labrador.

How dare he say that Premier Williams has made a mistake of historic proportions and that he is doing it on the backs of the people in Newfoundland and Labrador, that he may get some short term gain but that he will pay for it in the long run.

Is that how the Prime Minister operates? How can the Prime Minister threaten the people of Newfoundland and Labrador just because they want fairness?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, let us be very clear. No one has extended an insult to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Unfortunate remarks were made and those remarks have been apologized for.

On the substance of the issue, like the hon. gentleman and members on this side who represent constituencies in Newfoundland and Labrador, we all want a solution. We want to get one honourably and fairly and one that works well for Newfoundland. We will continue to work constructively in that direction.

Equalization Payments

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I hate to interrupt the line of questioning with a real question but I have a question for the Minister of Finance.

During the first ministers meeting on equalization, first ministers agreed to introduce a new element in equalization calculations. Could the Minister of Finance explain how the concept of an escalator clause is consistent with the principles of equalization and how it will affect equalization in the future?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is right. This is a major innovation in equalization. It will, at the request of the premiers, bring greater clarity, certainty and predictability into the calculation of equalization amounts from year to year. It will contribute to significant growth in the value of equalization. Indeed, between now and five years from now, it will grow by a full 42% over that period of time, and there will be a substantial transfer of provincial risk to the Government of Canada to assist the provinces.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in stark contrast to his rhetoric about social justice, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development is cutting his budget for the next fiscal year by $322 million, or 6%, while leaving intact his department's spending on administration and management.

Any cut to social programs is outrageous when his government is in fact faced with a surplus of $9 billion and the needs are so urgent.

Will the minister agree today to reverse these unfair cuts and to go back to his cabinet demanding an increase in spending that reflects the desperate need that exists among aboriginal communities today?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians]

Mr. Speaker, as I told the hon. member this morning, the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development increased its budget by 9%, some $450 million.

Privacy

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government has ignored the consequences of George Bush's patriot act allowing the FBI and CIA to spy on Canadians. We already know that this security breach has cost the Canadian taxpayers $5 million to correct the situation. What we do not know is why the government is silent and complicit in this behaviour.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Does he know how many Canadians are being affected? Has he raised this issue with Tom Ridge and other U.S. counterparts and would he care to inform the House what other nations could have access to Canadians' private information?

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the member has raised a very important question.

I met recently with the privacy commissioner, Ms. Jennifer Stoddart, to discuss this. She assured me that under the PIPEDA legislation we have all the authority we need to ensure that these incursions do not take place. We are reviewing some of our contracting reviews in the public sector to see if we can strengthen them. I am confident that we have the tools to protect Canadians.

Equalization Payments

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Mr. Speaker, at the Standing Committee on Finance this morning, the finance minister admitted that the current equalization deal that is on the table for Newfoundland and Labrador has a cap on revenues. This statement directly contradicts the Prime Minister and the Minister of Natural Resources who have both stated repeatedly that there is no cap for Newfoundland.

On such an important issue, who is calling the shots? Does the finance minister's proposal take precedence over the Prime Minister's election promise to the people of Newfoundland?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member is quoting is her own selective interpretation. What I said is that what will flow to Newfoundland in stream number one is 100% of its own source revenues; on top of that, equalization; on top of that, the 30% matching funds under the accord; on top of that, the additional offer that the Government of Canada has made to match the fiscal capacity of Ontario.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Mr. Speaker, amendments had to be made to the Speech from the Throne in order to force the Prime Minister to recognize the reality of the fiscal imbalance. Once again, instead of straight talking he is hiding behind the formula.

Will the Prime Minister be more straightforward, drop the trickery, come to the table and truly give the provinces their due?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the amendment to the Speech from the Throne referred to what some called a fiscal imbalance. I would point out that there are important fiscal pressures that we are occupied with on this side of the House, fiscal pressures that affect us, fiscal pressures that affect the provinces.

We are acting on all of those fronts, including in the last five weeks a commitment by the Government of Canada to $74 billion in new funding for the provinces for health and equalization to help them meet their responsibilities.

Agriculture

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the U.S. border has been closed to Canadian livestock for 526 days. Producers now more than ever need immediate disaster relief. Currently the Canadian agricultural income stabilization program requires producers to pay in large deposits just to trigger payouts. This is at a time when producers can least afford it.

When will the minister commit to getting rid of the onerous cash deposit requirement?

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, what we have indicated is a willingness to sit down with the industry and have a discussion about exactly how CAIS should be restructured, if it should be.

I should make the point that the Canadian Federation of Agriculture has made it clear that we should engage in this annual review. That process is being put in place. I made the commitment to them that as we review this, if there are alternative and better ways to make that particular program work, I am quite willing to listen to them and work at putting them in place.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when? Producers who have applied for the CAIS program are asking the Liberal government to show them the money. Many are still waiting for their cash advances for 2003.

I ask the agriculture minister, why is he failing farmers by not ensuring that desperate producers who have applied already for the CAIS program receive the cash they need right away?