Debates of Feb. 10th, 2004

Auditor General's Report

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, I encourage the hon. member to read the Auditor General's report more carefully. What she pointed out was that after her last review, action was undertaken by the previous president of the Treasury Board and the previous minister responsible for public works and government services, and that they put in place a comprehensive regime that was beginning to work. Nonetheless, when we came into office, there was a feeling that the program was simply so tainted that it was time to get rid of it and start over again.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today's report proves that this Prime Minister was the senior most minister in the most corrupt Canadian government in living memory. He says that this is unacceptable. What is unacceptable is that he was responsible for tax dollars of Canadians and did nothing.

Did he, as finance minister and vice-chair of Treasury Board, ask a single question about this program? Did he raise a single doubt? Did he inquire about how this money was being spent, or did he just bury his head in the sand because he did not want to know about the corruption with the Liberal Party in Quebec?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said both inside and outside the House that the situation described by the Auditor General is unacceptable. It is intolerable. I believe very strongly that Canadians deserve much better, and this government intends to provide them with that.

What is not going to help this debate nor the search for solutions is the kind of verbal abuse we are now hearing from the opposition, the kinds of things that were said about the current Minister of Industry who I am prepared to stand up in the House and defend anytime. She was a tremendous president of the Treasury Board.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if this scandal happened in a private corporation, the CFO would be fired summarily. This Prime Minister was the CFO for nine years. This happened under his watch.

He talks about the democratic deficit. Does he not understand that an essential part of the democratic deficit is that people in this place no longer take ministerial responsibility for what happens on their watch?

When will he change that? Why will he not take responsibility for his incompetence in allowing this scandal to go on under his nose?

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, there is an old saying in politics that when one cannot attack the policy, one attacks the person. What the opposition is trying to do is tie themselves in knots trying to change what this Prime Minister has done. The fact is he got rid of the program. The fact is he ordered an absolutely wide open public inquiry so we could get to the bottom of it. That is what this Prime Minister has done.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, a hastily called conference on the eve of this breaking in the House of Commons is again an attempt by this Prime Minister to avoid responsibility.

When is the Prime Minister going to take responsibility for the fact that on his watch millions of taxpayer dollars were pillaged by the man who was supposed to protect them? Why could he not at least have spared the House of Commons and his own party the humiliation of calling the minister back from Denmark now, and spared us and the taxpayers the cost of paying this disgraced diplomat's salary?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a hastily called conference? Let us take a look at it.

Within five minutes of the Auditor General's report being tabled in the House, the government acted. That is not hasty. That is decisive action by a government which is determined to get to the bottom of this and is going to do it.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is anything but decisive. He was aware and the government was aware, since November, of a $250 million scandalous, spurious spending program with incompetent practices, accountability lacking, and partisan folly with public funding. All of this is scathing condemnation from the Auditor General.

The Prime Minister has the audacity to say that he did not know. He did not know as the chief financial officer for the country. Was he incompetent, was he in denial, or was he in a trance?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I am sure the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough is well aware of the prohibition on the use of props in the House and would not want to repeat that part of the performance.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that opposition members are looking forward to the opportunity to reading the Auditor General's report carefully, wherein they will find a chronology of events starting in 2000 when the internal audit at public works and government services actually identified this problem.

Within six months, the branch responsible was closed down. Within another year, the rules were completely changed. Commissions were stopped. New rules for sponsorship and advertising contracts were given and the course was set for a new program.

[Beth Phinney, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Chief Government Whip and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.

The Auditor General's report was tabled in the House less than an hour ago. We all agree that this report is very important to parliamentarians and Canadians.

According to our practice, the Auditor General's report is carefully considered by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts which reports back to the House with its findings.

Would the Chief Government Whip tell us whether this committee has been reconstructed so that it may begin its study of the Auditor General's report?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, first, I want to thank my colleagues for their consent yesterday in approving the membership of the public accounts committee.

The government would like the committee to meet as soon as possible. We on this side and in that corner of the House are prepared to give our consent for the committee to meet as early as possible, even this afternoon, should it so wish.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is making a big deal about an independent inquiry to be paid for by Canadian taxpayers, even though we are talking about a scandal that saw public funds plowed back to the Liberal Party in Quebec.

What share of this independent public inquiry will be paid for by the Liberal Party?

[The Speaker]

I am not sure that question has much to do with the administration of the Government of Canada.

It may have something to do with the administration of the Liberal Party, but not of the Government of Canada.

Perhaps in her supplementary the member might make her question more relevant to the practices of our question period.

Foreign Affairs

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, let me go back to the Prime Minister's opening comments in the House today. It is funny, is it not, that the Prime Minister seems very clear when he is very caught.

We know that Maher Arar was caught. So was Juliet O'Neil. The government claimed the RCMP Public Complaints Commission could handle that even though the Auditor General said that she knew in November that the commission had no power to investigate.

I would like to ask the Prime Minister, does he think this is why folks ask if we are a police state?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure of the exact import of the hon. member's question. If she is suggesting that the public complaints commission of the RCMP does not have the power to carry out investigations into criminal matters, that is simply not accurate.

What the Auditor General perhaps was referring to was the fact that the RCMP, since September 11, has enhanced powers in relation to national security. In fact, the Prime Minister has acknowledged the fact that as of December 12 we want to look at a new or additional oversight mechanism to ensure that the public's rights are protected.

Auditor General's Report

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what strikes us today is that the Prime Minister is not yet prepared to shoulder his responsibilities in this shocking scandal, which so disgusts the taxpayers of this country.

Why did the Prime Minister fund this program to begin with, and why today, with all that we now know, does he not shoulder his responsibilities in this scandal which so disgusts the Canadian taxpayers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there were certain sums of money allocated for a program. That program was one with very clear, very well targeted, and very public objectives.

The problem is that the rules were not followed. That is the main thrust of the Auditor General's report, and where the problem lies.

As soon as the government became aware of this, the former minister of public works took action. And as soon as we took over, on December 12, we took action by cancelling the sponsorship program, followed today by submitting to the Canadian public a comprehensive plan of action.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one thing is clear and the Prime Minister is right that the Auditor General made it clear that the purpose of the program was crystal clear. It was to channel taxpayer dollars into corrupt acts by the Liberal Party of Canada. That is what is totally disgusting about this scandal.

One of two things is true about this scandal. Either the Prime Minister had no idea what was going on with hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, or he did know, in which case he has a lot of questions to answer.

Which is the truth? Did the Prime Minister know? If he did know, does he not owe Canadians a huge apology? If he did not know, how can Canadians trust the Prime Minister with their money when he had no idea what happened to hundreds of millions of their dollars?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the public did know what was going on in this program in the year 2000 when an internal audit at public works and government services disclosed the mishandling of public funds through this program.

The program was closed down and referrals were made to the Auditor General. That is how she became first involved in this case. Referrals were made by the government to the RCMP. Further referrals were made to the Auditor General, leading to the report today.

The program has been closed down as a first order of business. Now we have one of the most comprehensive, pivotal points in public administration in this country about to be disclosed through the processes of this government.

Government Contracts

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the new Prime Minister continues to pretend that he was an invisible man for the past decade. It was a cabinet decision to purchase two new Challenger jets untendered at the end of a fiscal year in an undebated extravagant spending orgy.

In 1984 John Turner had an option. Well, in 2002 this Liberal Prime Minister, as the former finance minister, had an option too. He could have said that this was wrong.

Why did the Prime Minister okay the purchase of these unnecessary aircraft?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it has come to my knowledge that the normal cabinet processes for the approval of this purchase were not followed.

In fact, the decision was made outside of those processes and I found out, as did a number of others, that the decision to buy had been made outside of the normal process at the end of the year.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we know that. What we do not know is, why the Prime Minister, when he was finance minister, did not speak up then?

Our military continues to fly 44 year old Hercules, 40 year old Sea Kings and 24 year old Auroras. However, not this Prime Minister. As former finance minister he ensured that he would be flying in the lap of luxury with the very latest technology protecting him.

What is so special about this Prime Minister that he feels he needs the best while the men and women who serve our country continue to fly in worn out antiques?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I made it very clear on becoming Prime Minister that Canadian troops would not be asked to serve abroad or in fact serve in this country unless they were provided with the finest of equipment and that we would protect our military personnel. I stand behind that.

I am very proud to be the Prime Minister who authorized the acquisition of a new helicopter.