Debates of Feb. 11th, 2004

Auditor General's Report

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP unit that was responsible for the 125th anniversary celebrations applied to this program for funding to help it carry out events across the country in relation to this celebration. In fact, it received that money. Based on the evidence, the Auditor General was able to determine that it held hundreds of celebratory events across the country with the funding it received.

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Groupaction contributed $112,162 to the Liberal Party of Canada's coffers, Groupe Everest $77,033 and Lafleur Communications $56,834. The fundraising list shows that the sponsorship program was profitable for the Liberal Party of Canada.

The Prime Minister states that he knew nothing about it. As someone who was unaware, does he realize that the sponsorship program was profitable for the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the contributions to political parties are matters of public record. It is true that some of these advertising companies did contribute to the Liberal Party of Canada.

However there is no evidence that moneys from this sponsorship program went to the Liberal Party. If the police investigations or the public inquiry indicate such, then there will be consequences to flow from that. However the very point is that we find out the facts.

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière—L'Érable, QC]

Exactly, Mr. Speaker, the special counsel for financial recovery is mandated to recover the $100 million pocketed by the Liberals' buddies.

Does the government intend to broaden that mandate so that the special counsel can also recover the contributions given to the Liberal Party by the companies who benefited from the sponsorship program?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the special counsel for financial recovery will be working very closely with the commissioner of the judicial inquiry. That information will be made available and will be made use of to follow those funds wherever they may have gone inappropriately and recover them for the taxpayers of Canada.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when Alfonso Gagliano was appointed ambassador, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs acted, on March 19, 2002, on my suggestion that he be questioned. Yet that same Liberal majority on the committee were the ones who refused to allow questions on his integrity, when his name was already being linked with the sponsorship scandal.

Does this behaviour from the Liberal members not indicate that they were very much aware of the sponsorship scandal and that their main concern was to make sure we knew as little as possible?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member herself has been on that committee for years. She knows very well that the committee determines its own procedure. It is up to the committee to decide. It is, in my opinion, unacceptable for her to insinuate today before this House that all the members of her committee had been corrupted in this way. This is totally unacceptable.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the truth is that a large number of those who defended Gagliano have been rewarded. The truth is that they did not want the truth to get out.

Now that the government has been caught red handed, will it admit that they were doing their best to cover up for Gagliano, appointed him to Denmark to get him out of the limelight, and are now trying to pin it all on him because they got caught?

Is this not the reality of the situation?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the former ambassador to Denmark has been removed from his job because he lost the confidence of the Prime Minister, which is the requirement for someone serving at pleasure in such an important diplomatic post.

The reason he lost the confidence of the Prime Minister was because of the Auditor General's report which indicated numerous occasions when that former minister's office was involved in the sponsorship program and in making decisions around it. It was entirely appropriate that he be removed from that post.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this scandal constitutes a theft of taxpayers' money. The money went from their pockets to the government, and from there on to the Liberal communications firms, and eventually to the coffers of the Liberal Party.

Can the Prime Minister tell us today whether he himself received any money from this scandal for his leadership campaign?

[The Speaker]

This question is out of order. It does not concern government business. Would the hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam perhaps have another question to ask?

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have another question for the Prime Minister. We know where this scandal began. It began on tax day when Canadian taxpayers are persistently ripped off by the government. What we want to know is where this scandal ends.

Has the Prime Minister asked every one of his cabinet ministers, yes or no, whether they received any of this dirty money from this disgusting scandal?

[The Speaker]

The hon. member knows that the question of political donations is one thing. The hon. member knows that there is a public list of that available, as has been indicated in answers to questions before.

This question in my view is one dealing strictly with political donations and therefore is out of order.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister claims that this quarter billion dollar scandal happened without any of his knowledge, even though it involved the Liberal Party in Quebec, but the Prime Minister is a creature of the Liberal Party in Quebec. He has spent his whole adult life in the Liberal Party in Quebec and, for the past 10 years, has effectively controlled the Liberal Party in Quebec.

How can the Prime Minister claim that he heard nothing, saw nothing and knew nothing about the massive fraud happening in his own political backyard?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has made it perfectly clear in her report that the sponsorship program was run by a small unit within the ministry and that it broke the rules.

Certainly, as the Prime Minister has already mentioned, this small group breaking the rules, whoever was involved with it, would not be taking that to cabinet or Treasury Board to ask permission to do so. Obviously that needed to be discovered through internal audits, through Auditor General audits, through RCMP investigations and now through public inquiries.

We will follow the facts wherever they are to be found.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is outrageous to have Liberal ministers blaming a small unit of bureaucrats for Liberal sleaze. It sounds awfully reminiscent of Richard Nixon blaming a small unit in the White House for something he allegedly knew nothing about.

I want to know how many Canadian tax dollars were stolen by these sleazy Liberal ad firms and ended up in the slush funds and the $12 million leadership campaign of the Prime Minister?

[The Speaker]

I am not convinced that the question is in order in the circumstances. It started off that way but ended up not being in order.

The hon. member for Ottawa West—Nepean has a question.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Marlene Catterall, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the most precious right of citizenship in a democracy is the right to vote. With the federal election likely to be held this spring, what measures is the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration taking to speed up citizenship approvals so that as many new Canadians as possible can vote in the coming election?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to tell the House that over 149,000 people became new citizens last year. We process all applications as swiftly as possible all the time.

Auditor General's Report

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

I am sure he would not want to run, in Quebec, an election campaign that was possibly funded by illegal means, so I have a very simple question for him.

On the list of those from whom he will try to recoup the money obtained in this disgraceful affair, has he included the Liberal Party?

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, let me deal with the question of the inquiry in this way: the answer is yes. The inquiry will go wherever it chooses to go. The government will not direct it.

However I do want to add some information. This morning the Auditor General said “I think we have to keep things in perspective. We are talking about a group within the Department of Public Works, a branch that had 12 to 15 employees, whereas the whole department has some 14,000 employees”.

The Prime Minister has obviously taken this very seriously.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, this Prime Minister is only very, very clear when he is very, very caught. Now he is like Imelda Marcos, hoarding the shoes while crying crocodile tears about the fact that they were bought in the first place.

So I would like to offer the Prime Minister a chance to finally get his feet out of his mouth on this Liberal scandal. Since public polling was used for political purposes, will the Prime Minister pick up the phone to the Liberal Party and ask for our money back?

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, it does not matter whether the question rhymes or how much alliteration there is in it, it simply does not change the facts. The reality is that this Prime Minister has ordered the broadest, most open, most complete public inquiry instrument that one can, and it will go wherever it chooses to go to get to the bottom of this, because we want to fix it.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think even Flat Mark would believe that.

Yesterday the Prime Minister told the House that “normal cabinet processes” were not followed when his government purchased two new luxury jets for his cabinet in 2002. The Prime Minister now admits that he knew the usual rules were broken. Yet even after he was kicked out of Jean Chrétien's cabinet, he remained silent about this abuse of tax dollars.

Why?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has made it clear that she felt that while the purchase may have been within the rules, it was outside the normal process. The Prime Minister yesterday said that it was outside of the normal cabinet process.

The Auditor General has indicated that because it was at the end of the fiscal year it was an inappropriate process. Frankly, the government agrees with that assessment. It is a valuable one, and that will be followed in the future whenever procurements of this type are considered.