Debates of Feb. 17th, 2004

Sponsorship Program

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it absolutely plain on this side of the House that we have nothing to hide.

No one on this side of the House has anything to hide, which is why we have made it plain that the judge conducting the public inquiry has the full powers under that act to call anyone he wishes. That is why the public accounts committee is hard at work. That is why we asked our opposition colleagues to agree to establishing the public accounts committee early.

So in fact, on this side of the House we have nothing to hide.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, still no answer to the question of why the Prime Minister has not asked his individual cabinet ministers what they knew and when they knew it.

Here is another thing the Prime Minister has done. He said that some Quebec ministers knew about this scandal. By saying that, he paints every single one of them with the same brush. Which Quebec ministers knew about this scandal?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, it is very plain to me that on this side of the House, and let me say it again, we have nothing to hide. We will cooperate with the public inquiry. We will cooperate with the public accounts committee. On this side of the House, we want to get to the bottom of this matter on behalf of all Canadians.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister found the time for 33 meetings and telephone calls with his company officials when he was finance minister, yet he cannot find five minutes to call his ministers to find out what they knew and when they knew about the sponsorship program.

Why are personal financial affairs more important to him than finding out what his ministers knew?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has taken action on this file from the very moment he was sworn in as Prime Minister. One of his first acts was the cancellation of the sponsorship program. Within minutes of the release of the Auditor General's report last Tuesday, a week today, he announced a comprehensive package of steps to make sure that everyone, all Canadians, knew what happened and how it happened. Nobody should be under any illusions in this House: this is a Prime Minister--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saint John.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I believe he must be hiding somewhere because he is not here today.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saint John is thoroughly conversant with the rules and she knows that it is improper to refer to the absence of a member in comments in the House. I am sure she regrets this blunder and will want to now put a proper question to the House.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, yes indeed.

There is a hidden cost to this scandal. The $250 million lost in this scandal is the total annual tax of 30,000 Canadians. Thirty thousand Canadians had their pockets picked by the government. Their hard-earned tax dollars disappeared because of the culture of corruption in the Liberal Party.

If the Prime Minister is sincere in getting to the bottom of this issue, why has he waited 67 days to ask his ministers--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, this Prime Minister has not waited 67 days. As I indicated, he in fact cancelled this program within minutes of becoming Prime Minister.

Last Tuesday, within minutes of the release of the Auditor General's report, he announced a public inquiry, in which we will all cooperate, including the Prime Minister himself. He announced a public accounts committee process in which we will all participate and cooperate, including himself. We have announced reform of whistleblower legislation and a review of the Financial Administration Act. We in fact have--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in one interview after another, the Prime Minister is claiming he knew nothing about the sponsorship scandal, at least not prior to May 2002. Yet his own Minister of Public Works and Government Services contradicted him yesterday by telling the House that, as early as the end of 2001, it was clear to everyone that the problems with the sponsorship program were far more serious than just some little administrative hitches.

How can the Prime Minister state without turning a hair that he knew nothing at all, when his own minister says that the fraudulent nature of the sponsorship scandal was common knowledge as far back as 2001?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the internal audit that was conducted in 2000 by the Department of Public Works was made public in September 2000. It was also made public with an action plan that was sent to Treasury Board in early 2001. That identified a number of managerial and administrative problems.

The chair of the public accounts committee in June 2002 held hearings and called before it the two deputy ministers over this period. They both said there was no political interference in their minds, only managerial problems. That is--

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, he is like the Prime Minister, he changes his version from one day to the next.

What he told us yesterday was that it was clear as early as 2001 that there were problems. He went on to say that it was so obvious that Alfonso Gagliano had lost his job because of it. Everyone knows that. There is not a soul in Quebec or in Canada who is not aware that Alfonso Gagliano lost his job because of the scandals. He knew that. Everybody knew that.

How can anyone claim the Prime Minister did not know, when Gagliano had done the rounds of the TV studios, as the PM did yesterday, to spread his falsehoods?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry that the hon. member was not able to follow my line of reasoning, but let me make it a little clearer for him.

By the end of 2001, and he is quite right, it was widely assumed that there had been political interference. What I am talking about is the public accounts committee in 2002 in June looking backwards with prior deputy ministers to ask them when they knew. In 2000 and in early 2001, they were of the opinion that there was no illegal activity, no breach of the Financial Administration Act, and they both said to the public accounts committee that there was no political interference.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a letter dated February 7, 2002, was addressed to the Prime Minister calling upon him to take action in the sponsorship scandal, given the events that had occurred. The letter was quite clear, and the Prime Minister even acknowledged receipt of this letter.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that his version of the facts regarding the sponsorship scandal, claiming he was in the dark until May 2002, is not credible, and that his version is improbable and aims only to cover his inaction, because that is what happened: he knew but he did nothing?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, far from lack of action, in early 2002 when this letter that the hon. member mentions was received, the Minister of Public Works was changed. The reference was made to the Auditor General of the Groupaction files. She reported.

Public accounts committee hearings were held, when a number of people, including the public servants involved, were called as witnesses. The Auditor General then referred cases to the RCMP, three of them. Subsequently, the department had a full quick response team review of 200 files and sent 10 more cases to the RCMP.

Starting in early 2000, many things were happening.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to be extremely clear. In January 2002, a cabinet minister was dismissed because of the sponsorships. One month later, a senior Liberal Party official writes to the former finance minister about it, and former finance minister sweeps everything under the rug.

Given Gagliano's dismissal from cabinet, how can the Prime Minister and his minister continue to maintain that these were nothing but rumours?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, references of cases that were suspect to the Auditor General, referrals to the RCMP, a total internal audit involving external forensic auditors, further references to the RCMP, and a change of minister. This is hardly inaction.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would refer to the Prime Minister's unwillingness to be here to face the music, but I do not want to be as unparliamentary as the member for Saint John, so I will not.

I do have a question for the Deputy Prime Minister. The government seems anxious to redeem itself and to show us that it is dealing in good faith with this issue, so I say to the Deputy Prime Minister, one of the things that could be done is that the government could take steps to make sure that the money that was given to the Liberal Party by the ad agencies in question is given back to the Canadian public for the work that was done on behalf of the Liberal Party.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the government has taken a number of steps, dare I say comprehensive steps, to deal with this situation.

One of the things the government has done is appoint special counsel to review the files in this matter and to begin civil recovery proceedings wherever they may be appropriate.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is starting to look like another Bre-X story of Canadian politics and even today some Liberal MPs are beginning to jump from the helicopters. There will probably be more of them.

I want to ask the Deputy Prime Minister this. We know what they have already done. We want to know why they will not pay the money back, the money that the Liberal Party got in donations from the ad agencies in question. They should pay it back.

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, I--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.